List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[AndyLucimitis]

The two that annoy me are Dow and Fisher because I wanted Bolton and LDU and I think most would’ve went that way.

The McKay and TDK picks were his best work. Absolutely nailed them.

When Freo surprisingly took Brayshaw at Pick 2 (from memory) I cheered thinking "You ripper - we get LDU or at least Cerra".

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Some light suggestion Geelong may target TDK but nothing serious. They even push back on Caro asking why he'd go there, her response was "They're a destination club" which was quickly dismissed by the rest saying, more or less, "And what are Carlton?"

Good one.

We are a huge destination club now after last years epic finals. Huge crowds - lots of noise.

And I reckon TDK thrives on it !

I said in earlier post - I reckon we are more of a chance of getting SDK than Geelong getting TDK.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Great post and given no respect, we were ****ed and SOS made some great decisions. I’ll never bag him.

I find people slagging off SOS so B-grade. Aside from the 300+ games, premierships, AAs, teams of the century, etc. he literally set everything in motion that got us to a genuine premiership contention. Something we hadn't managed for 20+ years prior to his appointment as LM.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Think Samo was definitely a victim of coaching. Not sure about Dow and LoB, felt like they had pretty glaring issues as players.

LOB is probably the poster child for taking the best available player. SoS thought we needed more running players. Got that totally wrong. Bonar, Fogarty, Brander, Ling were the next 4 picks. Not exactly world beaters. The Dow one hurt the most - we ended up with Cerra anyway but he or LDU should have been taken. All easy in hindsight. I remember every Carlton supporter being happy with Dow early days. He looked like a gun.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I find people slagging off SOS so B-grade. Aside from the 300+ games, premierships, AAs, teams of the century, etc. he literally set everything in motion that got us to a genuine premiership contention. Something we hadn't managed for 20+ years prior to his appointment as LM.

Bang on teddy

 

[JustOneTime]

I find people slagging off SOS so B-grade. Aside from the 300+ games, premierships, AAs, teams of the century, etc. he literally set everything in motion that got us to a genuine premiership contention. Something we hadn't managed for 20+ years prior to his appointment as LM.

A point well missed by many. Wayne Hughes and his cohort didn't even understand what needed to be done. Or were too weak to convince the club on what needed to be done.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

A point well missed by many. Wayne Hughes and his cohort didn't even understand what needed to be done. Or were too weak to convince the club on what needed to be done.

Probably the state of the club as a whole at the time - as well as Hughes being a bit hopeless. SOS had the personality / credit in the bank as a club legend to dictate a bit to the board what needed to be done and get their buy-in.

I don't think anybody else could have done it.

 

[JustaBattler]

Weitering ( no brainer) Harry and Charlie TDK - huge ticks
Dow/SPS/LoB/Fisher - nuffy pricks

Marchbank/Cuningham/Philps/Martin/Stocker hmmmm bad luck

SOS put the spine together - themost important thing a CLub ahs to have and absolutely nailed them.

Midfield picks? Absolute disaster - eg Dow > LDU or Cerra - really?

Hindsight is easy I h=guess but realistic score card has him about evens on selection.

Where he did make a huge difference was having to come in and totally rebuild the list - Herculean task. I thought the whole conflict of interest was baloney - bu the management regime and Board was a b broken piece of rubbish at the time.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I find people slagging off SOS so B-grade. Aside from the 300+ games, premierships, AAs, teams of the century, etc. he literally set everything in motion that got us to a genuine premiership contention. Something we hadn't managed for 20+ years prior to his appointment as LM.

Yeh but that’s like saying Melbourne supporters shouldn’t question some of Goodwin’s moves because he coached them to a flag. It’s not just hanging shit on SOS it’s analysing the job he done. My conclusion is that he built a core good enough to win a flag so it’s a pass. Like all list managers he made some poor, some good and some great calls.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Probably the state of the club as a whole at the time - as well as Hughes being a bit hopeless. SOS had the personality / credit in the bank as a club legend to dictate a bit to the board what needed to be done and get their buy-in.

I don't think anybody else could have done it.

Like the old joke - when SOS walked into the board room and Mark LoGuidice was sitting at the head of the table, SOS said "What are you doing in my chair ??"

 

[Arr0w]

The person that set the wheels in motion was MLG, not SOS

SOS was a ruthless in trades, not great with talent ID

 

[gbatman]

It’s literally one of the only things that matter when it comes to these decisions.

You can delist players who are under contract, we just did that with O'Brien.

Unless they are traded to another club, it does matter.
Binns won't be delisted, Young right now is a back up for Weitering.
lf we happen to pick up a young key defender possibly, but we would still need to absorb his contract.

More likely some of the injury riddled players will be let go or d best case rookie listed.

If we draft a ready to go key defender I think Young and Durdin are unlikely to be here next season. Perhaps both.

I like Binns and he is a good VFL player but I feel he will struggle to maintain a spot on our list. Our midfield is so strong and deep and we have two good ones in the Camporeale boys coming in who IMO will be ahead of him. Where does he stand then?

Absorbing the contract of any of these players I have mentioned that could be delisted whilst in contract would be no problem IMO.

 

[Michael Jezz]

The person that set the wheels in motion was MLG, not SOS

SOS was a ruthless in trades, not great with talent ID

Newman, Pittonet, Kennedy - traded
Owies, Cottrel, Kemp, - drafted
SoS made up for what he lost on Fisher, Obrien, Dow. SPS.
It is just SoS did not draft much foot speed or burst from stoppage

 

[JJBagger]

Newman, Pittonet, Kennedy - traded
Owies, Cottrel, Kemp, - drafted
SoS made up for what he lost on Fisher, Obrien, Dow. SPS.
It is just SoS did not draft much foot speed or burst from stoppage

SOS was solid with trades, but his high draft pick drafting was horrid outside of 2015. Got a bit lucky with Cottrell and Owies imo. Free swings that became very solid players

 

[teddy-hopkins]

The person that set the wheels in motion was MLG, not SOS

SOS was a ruthless in trades, not great with talent ID

Yes I'll give MLG credit for appointing SOS. But he also deserves the blame for the messy way he exited - ugly episode.

SOS got a bit too clever for his own good sometimes in elaborate trades and he had a few draft pick misses.

None of that matters much when you consider where we'd be right now if he hadn't come on board when he did. His strategy of going tall in the first draft (nailing all of those picks which are the hardest to get right) and then ruthlessly adding player after player to the list who was in that same age bracket seems to be a bit underappreciated by Carlton supporters. He knew if we did it for long enough eventually it would work.

As opposed to * who could never look past the next trade in isolation. Believing that if they screw everyone on enough trades it will eventually work. Which is why they keep going up to 8th for a year or 2 then back down.

That's exactly what we did pre-SOS.

 

[JustOneTime]

Yes I'll give MLG credit for appointing SOS. But he also deserves the blame for the messy way he exited - ugly episode.

SOS got a bit too clever for his own good sometimes in elaborate trades and he had a few draft pick misses.

None of that matters much when you consider where we'd be right now if he hadn't come on board when he did. His strategy of going tall in the first draft (nailing all of those picks which are the hardest to get right) and then ruthlessly adding player after player to the list who was in that same age bracket seems to be a bit underappreciated by Carlton supporters. He knew if we did it for long enough eventually it would work.

As opposed to * who could never look past the next trade in isolation. Believing that if they screw everyone on enough trades it will eventually work. Which is why they keep going up to 8th for a year or 2 then back down.

That's exactly what we did pre-SOS.

That first tall draft had a lot of misdirection picks with Schache, Aaron Francis, Sam Weiderman, and Hipwood.

We are now where we are because of Weitering, Curnow and Mckay. Just getting one of those wrong leaves us a big step behind. Mids are soo much easier to correct even though it's hard to go past the LoB/Dow and SPS picks.

I personally let off SoS on the Lob/Dow picks, not SPS. Lob came to the club and they would have asked him about dow or players he rated and he would have spun the story on Dow (his team mate). Tunnelled us towards those two players which is unfortunate (plus we needed speed for Cripps). The entire time Lob was with us, he said all the right things on camera about his weaknesses showing great insight on where he needed to improve. He just didn't show it at AFL level physicality... but his intelligence and words would have sold him as a correct choice. If he didnt come to the club, i doubt we choose him in the draft. I'm guessing just a situation that evolved form him spending time at the club pre-draft.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Yeh but that’s like saying Melbourne supporters shouldn’t question some of Goodwin’s moves because he coached them to a flag. It’s not just hanging shit on SOS it’s analysing the job he done. My conclusion is that he built a core good enough to win a flag so it’s a pass. Like all list managers he made some poor, some good and some great calls.

OK - but what sort of analysis are you doing on the job? Are only focusing on the pretty meaningless negatives while dismissing the massive positives?

Hawthorn built one of the best lists of all time around Buddy/Roughy but their supporters don't sit around moaning about how they didn't nail the Beau Dowler / Muston / Xavier Ellis / Max Bailey / Mitch Thorp / Shoenmakers / etc. picks.

Every club has misses in the draft which is why you have to trade out to obtain enough high picks that it doesn't matter.

How many Coleman medalists are traded to new clubs? Maybe 2 or 3 in a decade. SOS got us 2 from the draft. How many AA-level full backs are traded? How many AA-level ruckmen are traded? Walsh-level mids?

Those generational players we got from the draft are the types that are almost impossible to trade for. Once you've got them it is far easier to add Cerra / Hewett / Saad types around them.

 

[BolshyAust]

Swans would have taken him at 14, not really a reach. Just a tricky draft.
Zac Bailey would have been nice.

Ed Richards (16)
Oscar Allen (21)
Tim Kelly (24)
Liam Ryan (26)
Sam Taylor (28) were my faves after the O'Brien pick

 

[Coona Blues]

You can delist players who are under contract, we just did that with O'Brien.



If we draft a ready to go key defender I think Young and Durdin are unlikely to be here next season. Perhaps both.

I like Binns and he is a good VFL player but I feel he will struggle to maintain a spot on our list. Our midfield is so strong and deep and we have two good ones in the Camporeale boys coming in who IMO will be ahead of him. Where does he stand then?

Absorbing the contract of any of these players I have mentioned that could be delisted whilst in contract would be no problem IMO.

I can’t support most of your assertions from earlier and this post. Young and Binns are both contracted until 2026. The only way they leave is by trade.

While Young has been disappointing, he is more value on the list than what he would provide in trade collateral. If he were to go, it would be for a token pick if we were to shop him. Different story if someone comes with a second rounder on offer.
He is at very worst a capable “break glass” KPD who can also play ruck or forward if necessary.

The future of Marchbank is unclear. We have to find a minimum of three main list spots and he is in the firing line. We can talk of putting him on the rookie list, which would be a great outcome. The reality is that he remains highly rated by many, we would have to delist and rely on him being passed over by multiple clubs to enable us to take him back as a rookie. The chances of that coming off are minuscule.

There is no way we are parting with all of Akuei, Durdin, Marchbank and Young in one off season. That would leave only potential swingman Lemmey and a returning Silvagni as possible back up to our three first picked talls. While a fit Marchy is light years ahead, we have had little return for the past four years. If he plays out the remainder of the season there is a case, but is anyone confident of that? Durdin is in similar territory, he needs to play out the season to be considered a chance of retention. (That would probably be delist and re-rookie). I don’t think anyone believes Akuei will get an essential upgrade from the Category B rookie list.

Ideally we retain at least two of Young, Marchbank and Durdin. It is becoming somewhat urgent to draft a developing key defensive tall or trade in a (semi) developed/developing kid who I can’t see on the horizon. It may be prudent to grab someone as a rookie project prior to looking at the draft proper next year. It would be sensible to have a better option developing before Young comes out of contract.

The one you touched on that I agree with is Binns. Certainly will not be delisted as is a promising player we have seen fit to contract until the end of 2026. He is not getting a game ahead of Blacres or Ollie, and likely if one of them was out Cotts, Doc or a couple of other options would be preferred. Binns is prolific, but doesn’t run patterns comparable to our senior guns and his disposal is inconsistent. I do believe he should be schooled as a small forward option to give him an avenue to the top team.

If Binns finishes the VFL season strongly again, it is feasible his management could seek a trade for more opportunity. While he obviously resigned cheaply to be extended so far, list spots are incredibly tight, if Jaxon was to move on, it would save parting with another of his team mates.

Unless we have a left field trade, as it sits three of Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham and J.Carroll must be moved on, as the remaining off contract players. (We do have the scope to adjust the ratio of main list to rookie players by up to two if we are desperate for a spot or two, but that will just delay the pain by a season) Arguments could be put that each of the our of contract players is more likely to contribute to team success than Binnsy, so there is merit in his name being raised.

 

[BlueJet]

Yes I'll give MLG credit for appointing SOS. But he also deserves the blame for the messy way he exited - ugly episode.

SOS got a bit too clever for his own good sometimes in elaborate trades and he had a few draft pick misses.

None of that matters much when you consider where we'd be right now if he hadn't come on board when he did. His strategy of going tall in the first draft (nailing all of those picks which are the hardest to get right) and then ruthlessly adding player after player to the list who was in that same age bracket seems to be a bit underappreciated by Carlton supporters. He knew if we did it for long enough eventually it would work.

As opposed to * who could never look past the next trade in isolation. Believing that if they screw everyone on enough trades it will eventually work. Which is why they keep going up to 8th for a year or 2 then back down.

That's exactly what we did pre-SOS.

I'd have thought that falls on SOS.

 

[Stamos]

The future of Marchbank is unclear. We have to find a minimum of three main list spots and he is in the firing line. We can talk of putting him on the rookie list, which would be a great outcome. The reality is that he remains highly rated by many, we would have to delist and rely on him being passed over by multiple clubs to enable us to take him back as a rookie. The chances of that coming off are minuscule.


Unless we have a left field trade, as it sits three of Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham and J.Carroll must be moved on, as the remaining off contract players. (We do have the scope to adjust the ratio of main list to rookie players by up to two if we are desperate for a spot or two, but that will just delay the pain by a season) Arguments could be put that each of the our of contract players is more likely to contribute to team success than Binnsy, so there is merit in his name being raised.

If we need to open up a senior list spot by moving a player to the rookie list, Fantasia would make sense

 

[Stamos]

I'd have thought that falls on SOS.

Some sure, but not all of it

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

OK - but what sort of analysis are you doing on the job? Are only focusing on the pretty meaningless negatives while dismissing the massive positives?

Hawthorn built one of the best lists of all time around Buddy/Roughy but their supporters don't sit around moaning about how they didn't nail the Beau Dowler / Muston / Xavier Ellis / Max Bailey / Mitch Thorp / Shoenmakers / etc. picks.

Every club has misses in the draft which is why you have to trade out to obtain enough high picks that it doesn't matter.

How many Coleman medalists are traded to new clubs? Maybe 2 or 3 in a decade. SOS got us 2 from the draft. How many AA-level full backs are traded? How many AA-level ruckmen are traded? Walsh-level mids?

Those generational players we got from the draft are the types that are almost impossible to trade for. Once you've got them it is far easier to add Cerra / Hewett / Saad types around them.

SOS had natural draft selections of 1,1,3,3,5,19,19,21,21,23,37,37,39,39,41
And trade bait in Menzel, Bell, Gibbs, Henderson, Touhy and Yarran.
I think every list manager in the league could build an elite core from that.


I think SOS’s ability will be judged on the job he does at St Kilda. A side stuck in the middle without the top end picks he had at GWS and Carlton.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You can delist players who are under contract, we just did that with O'Brien.



If we draft a ready to go key defender I think Young and Durdin are unlikely to be here next season. Perhaps both.

I like Binns and he is a good VFL player but I feel he will struggle to maintain a spot on our list. Our midfield is so strong and deep and we have two good ones in the Camporeale boys coming in who IMO will be ahead of him. Where does he stand then?

Absorbing the contract of any of these players I have mentioned that could be delisted whilst in contract would be no problem IMO.

Am I understanding correctly that u want us to pay out multiple contracted players contracts... Essentially adding to our cap squeeze further by also having to bring in replacements via trade or draft on top of those players contracts?

I'm no fan of Young and I can see Binns struggling to get ahead of a few on our list but we aren't going to be able to draft a 'ready made' KPD with a late pick in the draft and Binns has shown himself to be a fantastic VFL player who's too light for AFL for the time being... As a 19 year old... Getting rid of either for anything less than a ready to go senior player who can plug into their spot would be mad.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I'd have thought that falls on SOS.

He obviously caused some of the tension that lead to him being sacked but it still should never have happened. What a way to thank a bloke who did what he did for the club - to tell him we're worried you're going to sabotage the upcoming draft/trade period.

Didn't work out well for Liddle either as he spent all his good will with the supporters (and board) in one shot. Made him the most sackable CEO in history - didn't last 12 months.

The whole thing was pathetic.