List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Stamos]

SOS had natural draft selections of 1,1,3,3,5,19,19,21,21,23,37,37,39,39,41
And trade bait in Menzel, Bell, Gibbs, Henderson, Touhy and Yarran.
I think every list manager in the league could build an elite core from that.


I think SOS’s ability will be judged on the job he does at St Kilda. A side stuck in the middle without the top end picks he had at GWS and Carlton.

‘Natural selections’ is pretty misleading. Where did those picks actually fall?

And what he did with 5 out of the 6 you call ‘trade bait’ was pretty incredible.

It’s curious that not so many list managers have managed to build elite cores.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

The future of Marchbank is unclear. We have to find a minimum of three main list spots and he is in the firing line.

I've been wondering about that. Currently we have 36 players on the main list and 6 on the rookie list (excluding Cat B).

The maximum number is 38 on the main list like a number of clubs have, so I assume technically we only need to find one spot on the main list if we're bringing in three players from the ND/rookie list.

Having said that, I tend to think we'll likely be bringing in 3-4 through the draft, Boyd elevated, and 1-2 trades/FA's - probably just the one. So there'll be a fair bit of juggling going on by Austin and his band of merry men the end of the year.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

‘Natural selections’ is pretty misleading. Where did those picks actually fall?

And what he did with 5 out of the 6 you call ‘trade bait’ was pretty incredible.

It’s curious that not so many list managers have managed to build elite cores.

depends on your time line. About a dozen would’ve thought they are a chance to win a flag since our rebuild started and all those sides were based around their core group.
1,1,3,4,6 for the first rounders, don’t know about the others.
Pick one alone is probably worth three years of middle of the road sides first rounders. It’s a crazy amount of capital.

I actually think we have the best core in the game but when you see that after SOS’s first season he turned 7 first rounders in the draft into 2 players you question him and when you see what he was going to give up for Shiel, Coniglio and Tomlinson I do start to wonder if it was just dumb luck. Like Rogers finding Doc and Cripps in his first season


As I say, he will make his name at St Kilda

 

[Stamos]

I've been wondering about that. Currently we have 36 players on the main list and 6 on the rookie list (excluding Cat B).

The maximum number is 38 on the main list like a number of clubs have, so I assume technically we only need to find one spot on the main list if we're bringing in three players from the ND/rookie list.

Having said that, I tend to think we'll likely be bringing in 3-4 through the draft, Boyd elevated, and 1-2 trades/FA's - probably just the one. So there'll be a fair bit of juggling going on by Austin and his band of merry men the end of the year.

Yes, if we were prepared to go to 38 senior, we’d only need to move on 1 from the senior list, as well as a rookie (Lord makes 7 cat A rookies now).

As for what we actually end up doing, Agresta has already suggested 4 draftees, I’d be surprised if we traded in more that 1 player, and then depending on how it goes, we might have a spot for an SSP player.
I’d guess 4 off the rookie list: Boyd (elevated), Mirkov, Durdin, Carroll

 

[TENACIOUS]

LDU likely off the table, reported wants to stay at North… “midweek tackle - Foxtel”

Carlton not in contention for Stengle “Cal Twomey“

Carlton likely to be busy this offseason “Cal Twomey”

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

LDU likely off the table, reported wants to stay at North… “midweek tackle - Foxtel”

Carlton not in contention for Stengle “Cal Twomey“

Carlton likely to be busy this offseason “Cal Twomey”

Busy for points or busy for players?

 

[Stamos]

I actually think we have the best core in the game but when you see that after SOS’s first season he turned 7 first rounders in the draft into 2 players you question him

How do you mean?

and when you see what he was going to give up for Shiel, Coniglio and Tomlinson I do start to wonder if it was just dumb luck. Like Rogers finding Doc and Cripps in his first season

Luck undoubtedly plays a part, both good and bad.

 

[JJBagger]

LDU likely off the table, reported wants to stay at North… “midweek tackle - Foxtel”

Carlton not in contention for Stengle “Cal Twomey“

Carlton likely to be busy this offseason “Cal Twomey”

I’m interested what he means by “busy”. The free agent pool is thinning by the day, and most of our draft capital will be used on the Camporeale twins. Trading using future picks maybe?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Yes, if we were prepared to go to 38 senior, we’d only need to move on 1 from the senior list, as well as a rookie (Lord makes 7 cat A rookies now).

As for what we actually end up doing, Agresta has already suggested 4 draftees, I’d be surprised if we traded in more that 1 player, and then depending on how it goes, we might have a spot for an SSP player.
I’d guess 4 off the rookie list: Boyd (elevated), Mirkov, Durdin, Carroll

I'd imagine that the number of picks we use at the draft could depend on the AFL make changes to the F/S rules this year - by memory, Agresta made the statement before Laura sprung that little gem on us.

As an aside, I liked the selection of Cooper Lord in the MSD - or as Agresta said 'getting ahead of this year's draft. On exposed form through the VFL during the front half of the year, he'd be ahead of a player you're likely to pick up in the rookie draft this year, and possibly even the 3rd/4th rounds through the ND. Helps to sure up the engine room going into the future under the guidance of Cripps and co. It also suggests that Jack Carroll may well be on his way out back to the west.

Matt Carroll unlucky to cop a long term injury in his first year as a rookie selection. He'll be doing well to survive the chop, although there's the opportunity for him to continue on in the VFL similar to Parks a few years back.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Busy for points or busy for players?

I’m interested what he means by “busy”. The free agent pool is thinning by the day, and most of our draft capital will be used on the Camporeale twins. Trading using future picks maybe?

He didn’t elaborate unfortunately

 

[ianh]

They did draft Patrick Cripps, however.

I remember that year my answer to be asked who to take with our first pick was always the same - Not Cripps! Probably my second worst misjudgement of a Carlton player ever (just behind my circa 10 year old self writing to the club to complain about given Ragsy Gould's jumper number to that young fella Doull).

 

[AT97]

Busy for points or busy for players?

They would now be staring to have a clearer picture of future F\S, so getting in earlier for the ‘26 draft.

 

[Blue1980]

I remember that year my answer to be asked who to take with our first pick was always the same - Not Cripps! Probably my second worst misjudgement of a Carlton player ever (just behind my circa 10 year old self writing to the club to complain about given Ragsy Gould's jumper number to that young fella Doull).

I wanted Luke Dunstan with that pick.

I’ll see myself out

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I remember that year my answer to be asked who to take with our first pick was always the same - Not Cripps! Probably my second worst misjudgement of a Carlton player ever (just behind my circa 10 year old self writing to the club to complain about given Ragsy Gould's jumper number to that young fella Doull).

Pies mate who did some scouting for them ages ago still can't believe they took 2 duds before Cripps. Especially freeman.

 

[DollarsandSense]

Does anyone know where the Bluemour Discussion thread has gone?? I cant find it anywhere..

 

[Stamos]

Does anyone know where the Bluemour Discussion thread has gone?? I cant find it anywhere..

22 threads down, 1 after 2024 Best 23 + Emergencies

 

[HereComesJuddy]

22 threads down, 1 after 2024 Best 23 + Emergencies

Can I buy a vowel or should I spin?

 

[le dominateur]

I’d have a look at Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

if we could get him on the cheap. Omitted again

Would be the slowest player on our list and struggles to kick the ball 40m, no thanks.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LemmingMaster]

Ed Richards (16)
Oscar Allen (21)
Tim Kelly (24)
Liam Ryan (26)
Sam Taylor (28) were my faves after the O'Brien pick

The hard part is, I heard we were high on Richards at the time and I was disappointed we did not go down that path.
Taylor was potentially a slight reach (in my eyes at the time). Allen was surplus to needs and did seem like an undersized forward at the time. Ryan not a hope in hell I would have rolled the dice on him moving interstate to play here.

 

[gbatman]

Yeah, you can, but it's extremely rare. I'd say LOB's situation was very unique given his rookie status, being about six years into his career, having a bunch of players ahead of him in his only very specific position at the club, and we also had a list spot crunch last offseason.

Whereas, for example, Binns is still only 19, has more positional versatility than LOB, and he won the VFL b&f in his first year. I just can't see any chance of him being delisted unless he gets charged with something heinous - in which case, no doubt Collingwood, Geelong, or St. Kilda would give him a spot on their list lol.

I would say they are all in a similar position. I like Binns but he's about to get push even further down. Our list is becoming really strong. I have questions over whether his game will ever translate to AFL in a strong side. Dow was a very good VFL player too and we were happy to let him go. Voss likes his big bodies. You have Camporeale X2 and now Lord in our mix, we are stacked on the wings. I don't see Binns playing AFL football next season unless all hell breaks loose injury wise.

I have a gut feeling that a lot of the fringe players who's contracts we have extended were front loaded, which gives us the option to cut them while in contract or keep them should their stocks rise. I think we did this with LOB. I think we are likely doing this again.

Am I understanding correctly that u want us to pay out multiple contracted players contracts... Essentially adding to our cap squeeze further by also having to bring in replacements via trade or draft on top of those players contracts?

I'm no fan of Young and I can see Binns struggling to get ahead of a few on our list but we aren't going to be able to draft a 'ready made' KPD with a late pick in the draft and Binns has shown himself to be a fantastic VFL player who's too light for AFL for the time being... As a 19 year old... Getting rid of either for anything less than a ready to go senior player who can plug into their spot would be mad.

Contracts of mentioned players probably add up to very little. It will hardly make a dint in out TPP. Probably on 30-50K next season. We probably front loaded them as well so unlikely we pay out much at all. Do we really have a cap squeeze? Evidence suggests this is something the media made up last season as we seem to have no trouble bringing players into the club and signing our own.

Again, list is becoming very strong, good players are going to get pushed out. Having Young, Marchbank and Durdin on the list is too many key defenders. Only one of them when fit gets a look in at our best side.

I think we will look to trade contracted fringe players if we can, but chances of us being able to do so aren't fabulous.

I can’t support most of your assertions from earlier and this post. Young and Binns are both contracted until 2026. The only way they leave is by trade.

While Young has been disappointing, he is more value on the list than what he would provide in trade collateral. If he were to go, it would be for a token pick if we were to shop him. Different story if someone comes with a second rounder on offer.
He is at very worst a capable “break glass” KPD who can also play ruck or forward if necessary.

The future of Marchbank is unclear. We have to find a minimum of three main list spots and he is in the firing line. We can talk of putting him on the rookie list, which would be a great outcome. The reality is that he remains highly rated by many, we would have to delist and rely on him being passed over by multiple clubs to enable us to take him back as a rookie. The chances of that coming off are minuscule.

There is no way we are parting with all of Akuei, Durdin, Marchbank and Young in one off season. That would leave only potential swingman Lemmey and a returning Silvagni as possible back up to our three first picked talls. While a fit Marchy is light years ahead, we have had little return for the past four years. If he plays out the remainder of the season there is a case, but is anyone confident of that? Durdin is in similar territory, he needs to play out the season to be considered a chance of retention. (That would probably be delist and re-rookie). I don’t think anyone believes Akuei will get an essential upgrade from the Category B rookie list.

Ideally we retain at least two of Young, Marchbank and Durdin. It is becoming somewhat urgent to draft a developing key defensive tall or trade in a (semi) developed/developing kid who I can’t see on the horizon. It may be prudent to grab someone as a rookie project prior to looking at the draft proper next year. It would be sensible to have a better option developing before Young comes out of contract.

The one you touched on that I agree with is Binns. Certainly will not be delisted as is a promising player we have seen fit to contract until the end of 2026. He is not getting a game ahead of Blacres or Ollie, and likely if one of them was out Cotts, Doc or a couple of other options would be preferred. Binns is prolific, but doesn’t run patterns comparable to our senior guns and his disposal is inconsistent. I do believe he should be schooled as a small forward option to give him an avenue to the top team.

If Binns finishes the VFL season strongly again, it is feasible his management could seek a trade for more opportunity. While he obviously resigned cheaply to be extended so far, list spots are incredibly tight, if Jaxon was to move on, it would save parting with another of his team mates.

Unless we have a left field trade, as it sits three of Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham and J.Carroll must be moved on, as the remaining off contract players. (We do have the scope to adjust the ratio of main list to rookie players by up to two if we are desperate for a spot or two, but that will just delay the pain by a season) Arguments could be put that each of the our of contract players is more likely to contribute to team success than Binnsy, so there is merit in his name being raised.

Young probably stays and Durdin likely goes. If we can get another key defender who is a level better, we may clean out a bit. MArchbank only goes if the incoming is really good.

Akuei is not going to make AFL and IMO is a level well below VFL. Lemmy is not backup, He wont play next year, he's nowhere near it, so why keep him on the list another season? Durdin can play AFL but IMO it's he or Young and Durdin is often missing in action. Why would you keep players on your list who clearly aren't AFL quality and very very unlikely ever will be?

Marchbank will need to play out the season and IMO he will. His body hasn't been injury prone lately, he's been unfortunate with virus and team mate inflicted injuries. I think he will be fine. But that remains to be seen. Still not convinced his body is up to scratch but I have a good feeling about him.

I've seen a lot of players like Binns. David Ellard, Nick Graham. Guns at VFL level but fairly mediocre at AFL level. His size and kicking worry me a fair bit. I think the Camporeale boys will go past him quickly. I think Lord probably will as well. We are absolutely stacked on the wings currently. IMO he will be floated around in the trade period. I think if another club wants him he will be let go. Particularly if Carroll stays. My gut feeling is Carroll will look around rather than be stuck as a reserve player in and out of the side. Voss has been really clear that he likes big bodies all over the field, particularly in the midfield.

Cuningham even at full fitness doesn't make the best 22. Start of the year he did. A lot has changed since. That's the difference between he Martin, Marchbank and Owies who are best 22 or very close to it. I think we have seen enough from Williams, Cincotta and Hollands to know that. Their rise has pushed Cuningham well down and even Cottrell. I would be very surprised if Cuningham is on our list next season.

Our list is getting better and better, it's grown a fair bit this season. Quite a few have stepped up and that has changed things.

This means the question for us list management wise is how do we let go good players but continue to improve the list?

It also means we must be a lot harder on young players who are either slow developing or simply don't have it.

 

[katmanblue]

Busy for points or busy for players?

Yes

On SM-F946B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[macky99]

I would say they are all in a similar position. I like Binns but he's about to get push even further down. Our list is becoming really strong. I have questions over whether his game will ever translate to AFL in a strong side. Dow was a very good VFL player too and we were happy to let him go. Voss likes his big bodies. You have Camporeale X2 and now Lord in our mix, we are stacked on the wings. I don't see Binns playing AFL football next season unless all hell breaks loose injury wise.

I have a gut feeling that a lot of the fringe players who's contracts we have extended were front loaded, which gives us the option to cut them while in contract or keep them should their stocks rise. I think we did this with LOB. I think we are likely doing this again.


Contracts of mentioned players probably add up to very little. It will hardly make a dint in out TPP. Probably on 30-50K next season. We probably front loaded them as well so unlikely we pay out much at all. Do we really have a cap squeeze? Evidence suggests this is something the media made up last season as we seem to have no trouble bringing players into the club and signing our own.

Again, list is becoming very strong, good players are going to get pushed out. Having Young, Marchbank and Durdin on the list is too many key defenders. Only one of them when fit gets a look in at our best side.

I think we will look to trade contracted fringe players if we can, but chances of us being able to do so aren't fabulous.


Young probably stays and Durdin likely goes. If we can get another key defender who is a level better, we may clean out a bit. MArchbank only goes if the incoming is really good.

Akuei is not going to make AFL and IMO is a level well below VFL. Lemmy is not backup, He wont play next year, he's nowhere near it, so why keep him on the list another season? Durdin can play AFL but IMO it's he or Young and Durdin is often missing in action. Why would you keep players on your list who clearly aren't AFL quality and very very unlikely ever will be?

Marchbank will need to play out the season and IMO he will. His body hasn't been injury prone lately, he's been unfortunate with virus and team mate inflicted injuries. I think he will be fine. But that remains to be seen. Still not convinced his body is up to scratch but I have a good feeling about him.

I've seen a lot of players like Binns. David Ellard, Nick Graham. Guns at VFL level but fairly mediocre at AFL level. His size and kicking worry me a fair bit. I think the Camporeale boys will go past him quickly. I think Lord probably will as well. We are absolutely stacked on the wings currently. IMO he will be floated around in the trade period. I think if another club wants him he will be let go. Particularly if Carroll stays. My gut feeling is Carroll will look around rather than be stuck as a reserve player in and out of the side. Voss has been really clear that he likes big bodies all over the field, particularly in the midfield.

Cuningham even at full fitness doesn't make the best 22. Start of the year he did. A lot has changed since. That's the difference between he Martin, Marchbank and Owies who are best 22 or very close to it. I think we have seen enough from Williams, Cincotta and Hollands to know that. Their rise has pushed Cuningham well down and even Cottrell. I would be very surprised if Cuningham is on our list next season.

Our list is getting better and better, it's grown a fair bit this season. Quite a few have stepped up and that has changed things.

This means the question for us list management wise is how do we let go good players but continue to improve the list?

It also means we must be a lot harder on young players who are either slow developing or simply don't have it.

Binns is a 2nd year player & 2nd round pick was easily our best player in the Vfl last year, it is possible later in the season he may get a few games at senior level.

He is 19 and under contract, he will definitely be given the opportunity to develop at Carlton, he won't be delisted this year.

I probably share the view of how differently the Campo twins may be rated if they were not father/son.
Pretty sure most of the injury riddled players will be under pressure to maintain a list spot.

 

[gbatman]

Binns is a 2nd year player & 2nd round pick was easily our best player in the Vfl last year, it is possible later in the season he may get a few games at senior level.

He is 19 and under contract, he will definitely be given the opportunity to develop at Carlton, he won't be delisted this year.

I probably share the view of how differently the Campo twins may be rated if they were not father/son.
Pretty sure most of the injury riddled players will be under pressure to maintain a list spot.

Always some pretty tough decisions when you have a list as good as ours. It's been 30 years since we have seen it, so we have forgotten how this works. This sort of thing happens with top lists all the time.

I think anyone not playing much or any senior football will be under a lot of pressure. Regardless of the reason.

We need to prepare our list so that it is as good as it possible can be for next seasons premiership.

I just feel we have been rebuilding for 25 years, that we are so used to it, we aren't used to just throwing everything at a flag, which is where we will be at for the next 3 seasons or more.

Ask yourself. Is Binns going to edge out Cripps, Cerra, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett, E Hollands, Docherty, J Carroll, Lord, Camporeale or Camporeale in the middle? Where does he sit in this pecking order?

What about wing? Acres, Hollands, Docherty, Cottrell, Camporeale and Camporeale? E Hollands plays there a little. I reckon there are a few others we could develop or play wing as well. Cerra was seen as a future elite wingman early in his career and Kemp has all the traits.

Billy Wilson is a future star, probably develops as a wingman or onballer next season.

Binns is playing well in the VFL. As I said we have seen Graham, Dow, Ellard etc all dominate VFL footy. It's good for such a young player. But I feel he's going to struggle to get games with us or get close to it. Voss likes his big bodies.

I just don't think his position on our list is safe. I can see other clubs come and ask about his contract and if we want room for players we rate more we will make it.

 

[Aphrodite]

O’Keeffe to stay at Carlton

Hudson O'Keeffe will continue to call IKON Park home.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Sector 7G]

Binns is a 2nd year player & 2nd round pick was easily our best player in the Vfl last year, it is possible later in the season he may get a few games at senior level.

He is 19 and under contract, he will definitely be given the opportunity to develop at Carlton, he won't be delisted this year.

I probably share the view of how differently the Campo twins may be rated if they were not father/son.
Pretty sure most of the injury riddled players will be under pressure to maintain a list spot.

I was a big fan of Binns last year but I am not seeing any improvement in his game this year. A bit like Ramsay who showed plenty but the call was made he wasn't going to take the next step up .