List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[arsesmart]

Rioli was brilliant.

Hawks smalls were dangerous. It is the big hole in our list.

Would've been interesting to see Schultz in that forward line with Treacy doing what he was doing this year.

The upside is there's plenty of natural internal improvement likely in our forwardline for next year. Amiss, Treacy, Jackson and Sturt could all get that much better with just regular development paths.

Even Emmett could be expect to go a level or two higher into his third year.

...but plug in a zippy forward or two who can convert 1/2 and 1/4 opportunities in there as well, it's more than enticing.

 

[Taylor]

We should trade for Hawthorn's future first then play a small forward who draws high free kicks and when the umpires put the whistle away for it league wide we bank a top ten pick from the Hawks.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Would've been interesting to see Schultz in that forward line with Treacy doing what he was doing this year.

The upside is there's plenty of natural internal improvement likely in our forwardline for next year. Amiss, Treacy, Jackson and Sturt could all get that much better with just regular development paths.

Even Emmett could be expect to go a level or two higher into his third year.

...but plug in a zippy forward or two who can convert 1/2 and 1/4 opportunities in there as well, it's more than enticing.

Rioli created 3 or 4 goals from half opportunities.

Add more class and everyone looks better. It would be hard to measure, but swapping Emmett with rioli may add 30 goals to our side. 15 from him, plus 15 from other people.

It would be the same for Schultz with his defensive pressure plus still kicking goals. . Would love would both types of players in our 22. I think Berry is closer to Rioli.
Oliver Hannaford closer to Schultz.

 

[Superkoops]

I'm fairly somewhat ok with taking the swing in as far as no cost to get him and the list spot management is done crafty like. There's gold in them thar hills.

I'd just be wary (superstitious) of him spending the first 2/3 of the season in rehab, coming in for a 5-7 games of good footy, which forces someone developing out, only for him to break down on the eve of finals. We're then left scrambling to get someone up to speed.

He has already been announced as delisted. So zero cost. He even did a medical with us whilst his team were in finals and he was listed as a test.

The cost is a primary list spot. That does concern me.

The options are
DFA - gives him a list spot.
Rookie SSP (where he does a Sharp and doesn’t nominate for drafts)

I prefer option 2 for an injury prone player.

 

[Taylor]

Rookie SSP (where he does a Sharp and doesn’t nominate for drafts)

And running one short on the primary list to facilitate the extra rookie spot does reduce his salary cap impact by nearly $100k a year.

 

[s_wd6]

I get the impression that we've cooled on him a bit since the medical, which is why there's talk about him going to one of the QLD teams when there wasn't before.

 

[Swiggy]

I get the impression that we've cooled on him a bit since the medical, which is why there's talk about him going to one of the QLD teams when there wasn't before.

What gives you that idea?

 

[Superkoops]

What gives you that idea?

I have no issue if that is the case. If we have done the medical and some scans reveal a bunch of issues with his calves and hamstrings then we are best to pass. As you say nothing I’ve read suggests he will be going to QLD. Brisbane seem to have a good record with injured players.

 

[arsesmart]

I get the impression that we've cooled on him a bit since the medical, which is why there's talk about him going to one of the QLD teams when there wasn't before.

I think the Qld angle comes from his wife, who I think hails from there.

 

[s_wd6]

I think the Qld angle comes from his wife, who I think hails from there.

She’s also currently pregnant with their second child. If either QLD team were an option I’d put my money on him going there instead.

 

[arsesmart]

She’s also currently pregnant with their second child. If either QLD team were an option I’d put my money on him going there instead.

Although it's been some since he's lived in WA. Might be thinking it's a chance to spend a year or two living in WA around his family before potentially relocating back to Qld when he retires.

 

[Demons09]

Rioli created 3 or 4 goals from half opportunities.

Add more class and everyone looks better. It would be hard to measure, but swapping Emmett with rioli may add 30 goals to our side. 15 from him, plus 15 from other people.

It would be the same for Schultz with his defensive pressure plus still kicking goals. . Would love would both types of players in our 22. I think Berry is closer to Rioli.
Oliver Hannaford closer to Schultz.

You want to add more class to Peels fwd line.

 

[nurries]

I would part Martin on 2 years minimum chips and games played bonus

 

[go_the_dockers]

You want to add more class to Peels fwd line.

Add depth in the area.
More pressure on best 22 in that area.

Yeah a side affect will be Peel gets a better forward line

 

[Dale147]

No thanks

 

[TheLastCall]

No thanksView attachment 2110520

I suspect when Carlton realised we were cooling on him and would have only got chip for him they decided to cut him. QLD clubs would only take him for free.

 

[Docker82]

I think I’d rather have Emmett on our list than Martin tbh.

Firstly I don’t think Martin is rated because of on field performance. It’s because he was a high draft pick ten years ago - that’s irrelevant.

Then throw in that our forward pressure is the worst in the league. At least Emmett if he’s player 28-30 on our list provides that.

Then throw in Martin’s history with injuries.

Then throw in the age of both players.

Will admit if we knew the world was ending end of 2025 and we had one year to win a flag Martin would be the better option. He’s a more talented footballer for sure but I think Emmett could still be around in 4-5 years if he’s good enough - if he doesn’t improve and gets delisted that’s okay but Martin is a one year prospect every year with the best case scenario probably getting two years from him.

 

[Ge3ks]

Is Emmett contracted for 2025?

 

[Taylor]

Is Emmett contracted for 2025?

Not any announcement yet, if it exists

 

[eastfreo75]

I think I’d rather have Emmett on our list than Martin tbh.

Firstly I don’t think Martin is rated because of on field performance. It’s because he was a high draft pick ten years ago - that’s irrelevant.

Then throw in that our forward pressure is the worst in the league. At least Emmett if he’s player 28-30 on our list provides that.

Then throw in Martin’s history with injuries.

Then throw in the age of both players.

Will admit if we knew the world was ending end of 2025 and we had one year to win a flag Martin would be the better option. He’s a more talented footballer for sure but I think Emmett could still be around in 4-5 years if he’s good enough - if he doesn’t improve and gets delisted that’s okay but Martin is a one year prospect every year with the best case scenario probably getting two years from him.

I agree plus we need more quickness, and Martin isn't quick with injuries.

 

[Ge3ks]

Martin isn't quick with injuries.

He is very quick with injuries. Took only 5 mins to do his hammy in his most recent game.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

This guy isn’t going to be coming on rookie wages. It’ll be multi year $400k minimum. Guy is a mercenary. Just look at how he got to Carlton.

But that was because that campaigner silvagni manipulated him.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Surely if we are looking at Martin it would be for the very last spot on the list and he trains over the summer with other potential candidates and IF he is injury free and performs better than the others we select him in the SSP. Doesn’t that mean he gets a rookie contract?

That’s really the only scenario where I like the idea.

 

[Superkoops]

Surely if we are looking at Martin it would be for the very last spot on the list and he trains over the summer with other potential candidates and IF he is injury free and performs better than the others we select him in the SSP. Doesn’t that mean he gets a rookie contract?

That’s really the only scenario where I like the idea.

It’s sounding as though we are considering him for SSP like Sharp. I don’t have a problem with him on rookie list. As for training the SSP starts from beginning of December so they will be able to get a few weeks of training done before they consider selecting. If ends up like that St Kilda bloke blowing his hammy whist training then we can tell him sorry.

 

[arsesmart]

I think I’d rather have Emmett on our list than Martin tbh.

Firstly I don’t think Martin is rated because of on field performance. It’s because he was a high draft pick ten years ago - that’s irrelevant.

Then throw in that our forward pressure is the worst in the league. At least Emmett if he’s player 28-30 on our list provides that.

Then throw in Martin’s history with injuries.

Then throw in the age of both players.

Will admit if we knew the world was ending end of 2025 and we had one year to win a flag Martin would be the better option. He’s a more talented footballer for sure but I think Emmett could still be around in 4-5 years if he’s good enough - if he doesn’t improve and gets delisted that’s okay but Martin is a one year prospect every year with the best case scenario probably getting two years from him.

Jack Martin's performance on field is very much rated by those who observe him closely. He came in 6th in Carltoon's B&F year before last.

‘Surprise packet’: Why Jack Martin looms as the Blues’ finals X-factor



‘Surprise packet’: Why Jack Martin looms as the Blues’ finals X-factor
Jon Pierik
August 27, 2023

Jack Martin’s creativity, skills and willingness to buy into the club’s on-field pressure mantra have helped to turn around Carlton’s fortunes, but it’s his leadership skills which are less well known.

At quarter-time against Gold Coast last Saturday, with the stunned Blues trailing by 33 points, it was Martin’s calmness which helped his team re-emerge and secure a drought-breaking finals berth.

“His on-field and off-field leadership, he sees the game really well. He is an extension of the coaching group at breaks and during the game. It’s a real pleasure to work with him when he can just echo your message with such clarity which people probably wouldn’t see,” Ashley Hansen, the Blues’ forwards coach, said.

“He sees the game really well, and was a catalyst at quarter-time last week to give the boys some composure, and then realign them with the task we had in front of us. That just shows the maturity he is growing and, I guess, the team ethos he is buying into, and he wants to help his teammates achieve. He, like anyone, has probably been starved of a fair bit of success in his career, so I think there is an intrinsic motivation to achieve that.”

This leadership also extends into team meetings through the week, where he “articulates what he sees, and questions and challenges the way that we want to play and the best way to go about it”, added Hansen, a former West Coast premiership player, and Western Bulldogs premiership assistant coach.

“He has been a surprise packet to me, a little bit. I thought he could be quite shy, but when he is talking footy, he is pretty confident in what he sees and what he can contribute to the group.”

Four years into a five-year contract, and it appears Martin is delivering the career-best football the Blues have craved.

While the former Sun had a strong maiden season at Princes Park in 2020 (15 games, 12 goals, sixth in the best and fairest), the ensuing two were derailed by soft-tissue injuries, restricting the dasher to a combined 23 matches (20 goals).

This year threatened even greater tumult, when Martin was hurt in the opening round against Richmond, and missed the next 12 weeks of senior football. It sparked a detailed analysis of his body, Martin seeking alternative treatment from specialists outside the club. This program works to strengthen his calves, while also helping him recover better.

“In conjunction with the [Blues’] high-performance team and the medical team, it was finding the right balance between training loads, treatment levels, what type of treatment, when do you have that treatment, when to be honest with yourself because he loves training but [needs to say]: ‘I probably need to pull back today’, guys are getting better at that self-awareness, certainly when they are getting older,” Hansen said.

“It’s a matrix of a lot of things that have combined to put him in this spot.”

The Blues have also done their part in managing him well. When Martin returnned in an ignominious defeat to Essendon in round 13, a loss which shook the club and players, Martin was substituted off. He was also managed against Gold Coast a week later when again substituted off.

He sat out the round-19 thrashing of West Coast, returning against Collingwood when he had three goals from only 12 disposals in a stunning win. One burst from defence to attacking 50, reaffirming his gut running capability, was highlighted by coach Michael Voss in the team review.

Commentator David King said after that performance the challenge for Martin was to back it up. That he has.

While he hasn’t had more than 15 disposals in his past eight games, Martin has bought into delivering the forward pressure and overall run the Blues vowed to bring for the rest of the season after their open and honest mid-season debriefing.

“We have always known Jack’s potential to influence games. Without doubt, the defensive intensity and contest attitude he has brought us in the front half has stimulated a lot of his teammates to buy in to those standards as well,” Hansen said.

“It has certainly helped us in the last 10 weeks with his ability to provide that. When Harry [McKay] was out, he was playing a bit taller, which was a tremendous task to undertake, and he did it really well on a number of occasions to give us aerial presence. We certainly know his ground-level contest ability, and he is a great finisher.

“He has been one of the important parts of the jigsaw puzzle that has got into the position we are now.”

His two goals, including a pivotal shot from 48 metres out, from 14 touches against the Suns last Saturday were also crucial, reinforcing why he could be a finals x-factor when the Blues, preparing to face Greater Western Sydney on Sunday, return to September for the first time in a decade.

“I think we have got many players that fit into that boat, but, certainly, he is one of the guys … he can have bursts in games, he can change a game through multiple ways, whether it be at stoppage, at ground-level contests, ahead of the ball in a critical one-v-one. He has got a lot of weapons that he can turn to and influence a game, which makes him so dangerous,” Hansen said.

Since round 13, he is equal second for goals at the Blues, second for disposals inside 50, third for inside 50 marks and third for scoreboard involvements, highlighting why former Magpies coach Nathan Buckley says he is such an important link between the tall forwards and high-pressure smalls.

Martin joined the Blues on a heavily fronted-ended contract, where this masthead reported he was paid about $2 million over his first two years, but the overall average was about $625,000. This allowed the exiting Sun to get to his club of choice through the pre-season draft.

The front-loading of the contract – designed to deter both the Suns and a then interested Melbourne from picking him up – meant Martin was close to the Blues’ highest-paid player.

With that came scrutiny, and frustration from Blues’ supporters when Martin was injured. But the West Australian, enjoying life as a husband and father to a young daughter, has changed the narrative, and is keen to soon extend his stay with the club.