List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[The Lobbster]

Salary is a big deal though. McGrath is Aish level in that he's B22 at most teams, but not in any teams (bar maybe the bottom 2) best 10. Not the sort of player you pay overs in any sense for.

We've been lowballing players lately, presumably to have cap space to target and honestly, I'd rather Acres than McGrath.

The phrase “lowballing” is interesting. When Geelong did (and presumably still do) it, it’s revolutionary, but when we do it we’re being cheapskates. Now obviously the difference in success between the clubs is very large but many would argue the way to succeed is to start changing from the “Whoever wants to stay at Freo, stays at Freo” to “We pay you what we think you’re worth”.

Now maybe we did lowballing someone like Acres, not truly understanding his value. But when you consider his past years at Freo and the fact we don’t actually know what the offer to him was, then IDK. I can’t blame him for leaving for more guaranteed money but I don’t know enough about our offer to know wether we made a mistake or not, especially since we obviously didn’t know how he would perform in 2023.

Thats the thing with players leaving. If you consider a change of coach, start of a rebuild and a presumed change in list management strategy, all within 7 years, then the players leaving is understandable but not a sign of a crisis. It’s only in how long it continues that will tell how much of an issue it is.

 

[Superkoops]

This is why I don't think it was as simple as Freo trading up from 10 to 8 in order to pick Serong before Carlton. Top name on Freo's list was LJ, who was being rated around 10 by most of the rankings / phantoms prior to Twomey's late mail phantom.

The fact that, ultimately, LJ went at 3, Young at 7 and Serong at 8, doesn't mean it was destined to play out that way or that Freo were trading up to 8 so as to get Serong specifically. LJ possibly being available at 7 would mean that the order was less set than it looks in hindsight — or, at least, it would've a week out from the draft, when Freo traded with Melbourne. Freo had to have been genuinely worried that Carlton was going to bid on Henry at 9, so the trade was more about getting another pick in before Carlton and Melbourne, who were also reportedly interested. The subsequent actions of both Melbourne and Carlton suggests that neither was genuine.

Doesn't explain why they didn't go in with better currency to match a bid at 9, though.

We are in agreement. The point I was making was Freo must have had a decent inkling that Carlton were going to bid and therefore wanted to get from 10 to 8.

GWS by the time they did their trading to get up to pick 4 felt strongly that Green would not be bid before pick 4.

To firstly not make a bid on Green at pick 8 when for mine the risk is so low and all it would have done is reduce the points deficit. No way on earth GWS go nope we’re not matching pick 8 with a bunch of later picks and give up on getting Green who was very highly rated and whom they paid a high price to get pick 4 ahead of a bid. They moved up to pick 4 so would have been comfortable matching a bid on him at 5.

Then to double down on the mistake Freo like an awkward surprise party had an awful last min trade lined up where we threw away F2 for a couple of picks in 50’s.

By not being more prepared resulted in:

• points deficit for first round pick 2020
• losing good second round pick. We did an expensive upgrade 2020 draft night trade to be able to select NOD.

We need to be better. I’m comfortable throwing around thirds and fourths but we need to value our first and seconds more. It these little mistakes that cost us in the draft.

 

[Superkoops]

Salary is a big deal though. McGrath is Aish level in that he's B22 at most teams, but not in any teams (bar maybe the bottom 2) best 10. Not the sort of player you pay overs in any sense for.

We've been lowballing players lately, presumably to have cap space to target and honestly, I'd rather Acres than McGrath.

I’m not on the get McGrath bandwagon. I agree with you actually but was just pointing out it is salary cost as FA. I believe for his type the salary required would not be worth it for the team good. I do however believe FA is an area we will look at over the next couple of years. No idea who but won’t be just WA players.

 

[eastfreo75]

Everybody talk about getting non WA players in FA are kidding themselves.

If playerd can’t handle the Melbourne spot light they will go North ie Daniher.

Perth is a long way from anywhere.

 

[Docker82]

Salary is a big deal though. McGrath is Aish level in that he's B22 at most teams, but not in any teams (bar maybe the bottom 2) best 10. Not the sort of player you pay overs in any sense for.

We've been lowballing players lately, presumably to have cap space to target and honestly, I'd rather Acres than McGrath.

McGrath is a lot better than Aish level.

I'd rather us target the forward half though tbh. Just got the feeling a number of eggs in the McDonald and a couple a good draft picks in future won't cut it with this group. We need forward half quality ASAP imo - McDonald and a gun small in their mid-20s might just be enough.

 

[s_wd6]

Everybody talk about getting non WA players in FA are kidding themselves.

If playerd can’t handle the Melbourne spot light they will go North ie Daniher.

Perth is a long way from anywhere.

Yeah zero incentive for anyone to come play in Perth unless its a last ditch attempt to save their career. What benefit does Perth have to offer footballers over other states?

 

[Taylor]

We would need to be offering a player good money and a role different to their current team for them to move here, but for some reason the club they are currently at doesn't have that role available or won't pay the same money (or both).

 

[nurries]

Yeah zero incentive for anyone to come play in Perth unless its a last ditch attempt to save their career. What benefit does Perth have to offer footballers over other states?

Apart from awesome weather, awesome beaches, great surf, football culture, great fishing and outdoor lifestyle, wide range of places to explore from cooler temperate to harsh arid and tropical beauty there is nothing.


Written and endorsed by the WA Tourism commission

 

[Bigger]

Apart from awesome weather, awesome beaches, great surf, football culture, great fishing and outdoor lifestyle, wide range of places to explore from cooler temperate to harsh arid and tropical beauty there is nothing.


Written and endorsed by the WA Tourism commission

Kickarse frequent flyer points.

 

[Paracleet]

We are in agreement. The point I was making was Freo must have had a decent inkling that Carlton were going to bid and therefore wanted to get from 10 to 8.

GWS by the time they did their trading to get up to pick 4 felt strongly that Green would not be bid before pick 4.

To firstly not make a bid on Green at pick 8 when for mine the risk is so low and all it would have done is reduce the points deficit. No way on earth GWS go nope we’re not matching pick 8 with a bunch of later picks and give up on getting Green who was very highly rated and whom they paid a high price to get pick 4 ahead of a bid. They moved up to pick 4 so would have been comfortable matching a bid on him at 5.

Then to double down on the mistake Freo like an awkward surprise party had an awful last min trade lined up where we threw away F2 for a couple of picks in 50’s.

By not being more prepared resulted in:

• points deficit for first round pick 2020
• losing good second round pick. We did an expensive upgrade 2020 draft night trade to be able to select NOD.

We need to be better. I’m comfortable throwing around thirds and fourths but we need to value our first and seconds more. It these little mistakes that cost us in the draft.

I have an idea that the minimum deficit was 200. I.e. if you match a bid in the first round and end up with a deficit of less than 200 it was waived. Our original deal with Port would have covered that right down to pick 10.
I.e. It covered every scenario except Carlton spite bidding on Henry before Green.

 

[theGav56]

The phrase “lowballing” is interesting. When Geelong did (and presumably still do) it, it’s revolutionary, but when we do it we’re being cheapskates. Now obviously the difference in success between the clubs is very large but many would argue the way to succeed is to start changing from the “Whoever wants to stay at Freo, stays at Freo” to “We pay you what we think you’re worth”.

Now maybe we did lowballing someone like Acres, not truly understanding his value. But when you consider his past years at Freo and the fact we don’t actually know what the offer to him was, then IDK. I can’t blame him for leaving for more guaranteed money but I don’t know enough about our offer to know wether we made a mistake or not, especially since we obviously didn’t know how he would perform in 2023.

Thats the thing with players leaving. If you consider a change of coach, start of a rebuild and a presumed change in list management strategy, all within 7 years, then the players leaving is understandable but not a sign of a crisis. It’s only in how long it continues that will tell how much of an issue it is.

It isn't the only factor, but if Geelong begin to live life amongst the also-rans where we reside then they will have problems holding players to the lower end of their salaries.

Being a regular finals contender will help us retain players, and balance contract payments.

This draft they have again elected to stay in the finals game with 3 of their draftees on the cards to debut. Managh likely to be best 22 early.

Do they have the best history of using mature age draftees? Does it help stabilise salary cap payments?

I know all clubs want to play finals but Geelong achieve that goal. They have the cause and effect relationship between managing salary cap and playing finals balanced, but if they take another slide down the ladder and things will become interesting.

 

[Purpletown]

Maybe controversial but I think Green may be the better player. He is an absolute beast and would have fixed all of our contested issue problems. Although saying that I do love Serong and think he should be our captain.

Serong and Tom Green are both very good players. Either one in the team is great, both in the same team would be amazing.

 

[Purple Suit]

Yeah zero incentive for anyone to come play in Perth unless its a last ditch attempt to save their career. What benefit does Perth have to offer footballers over other states?

We’ve got JOM over, Jackson plus all those saving their career.

People just think the grass is always greener elsewhere. They watch Acres spud it up for half the season last year at Carlton and he comes good for finals and we’re the worst traders in the land.

 

[Alfonz]

The phrase “lowballing” is interesting. When Geelong did (and presumably still do) it, it’s revolutionary, but when we do it we’re being cheapskates. Now obviously the difference in success between the clubs is very large but many would argue the way to succeed is to start changing from the “Whoever wants to stay at Freo, stays at Freo” to “We pay you what we think you’re worth”.

Now maybe we did lowballing someone like Acres, not truly understanding his value. But when you consider his past years at Freo and the fact we don’t actually know what the offer to him was, then IDK. I can’t blame him for leaving for more guaranteed money but I don’t know enough about our offer to know wether we made a mistake or not, especially since we obviously didn’t know how he would perform in 2023.

Thats the thing with players leaving. If you consider a change of coach, start of a rebuild and a presumed change in list management strategy, all within 7 years, then the players leaving is understandable but not a sign of a crisis. It’s only in how long it continues that will tell how much of an issue it is.

Geelong don't "lowball" anyone. They pay players below market value in the salary cap, and then make up for it with huge incentives outside the salary cap (including post career) which makes their overall compensation extremely high. You have to be very naive to believe Hawkins had been playing on just $300k and not getting something on top outside the cap.

 

[Purple Suit]

We are in agreement. The point I was making was Freo must have had a decent inkling that Carlton were going to bid and therefore wanted to get from 10 to 8.

GWS by the time they did their trading to get up to pick 4 felt strongly that Green would not be bid before pick 4.

To firstly not make a bid on Green at pick 8 when for mine the risk is so low and all it would have done is reduce the points deficit. No way on earth GWS go nope we’re not matching pick 8 with a bunch of later picks and give up on getting Green who was very highly rated and whom they paid a high price to get pick 4 ahead of a bid. They moved up to pick 4 so would have been comfortable matching a bid on him at 5.

Then to double down on the mistake Freo like an awkward surprise party had an awful last min trade lined up where we threw away F2 for a couple of picks in 50’s.

By not being more prepared resulted in:

• points deficit for first round pick 2020
• losing good second round pick. We did an expensive upgrade 2020 draft night trade to be able to select NOD.

We need to be better. I’m comfortable throwing around thirds and fourths but we need to value our first and seconds more. It these little mistakes that cost us in the draft.

I think we’ve gotten better, going into next season with three firsts tells me we have finally realised the value of flipping it forward. Let’s hope they use it wisely instead of spend it all & our 2025 haul next year on magic beans.

 

[go_the_dockers]

We need to lock in Darcy, before we chase any free agents.

 

[Dockeroo]

The salary would be massive for a non-WA free agent if they’re much good, which McGrath is. He’ll have any Victorian club that can afford him offering him a contract - unless he’s looking to get out of Victoria we’d probably need to offer him a salary cap breaking contract to get him across.

As much as we keep hearing Zurhaar is happy in Victoria, he’s exactly what we need. North probably match if it doesn’t get them a top five compensation pick though so we’d have to offer a lot.

Think you are overstating how good Zurhaar is there. To borrow the Kane Cornes quote - he’s not in the top 150 players in the league.
It would be insane to pay a guy like that enough to get band 1 compo. He’s a half forward flanker at the end of the day. At least Ben McKay is a decent key position defender.
I’d be thinking around $550-600k pa for Zurhaar is plenty, and band 3 compo is about right. Not overly enthused by the prospect of adding him TBH

 

[go_the_dockers]

Think you are overstating how good Zurhaar is there. To borrow the Kane Cornes quote - he’s not in the top 150 players in the league.
It would be insane to pay a guy like that enough to get band 1 compo. He’s a half forward flanker at the end of the day. At least Ben McKay is a decent key position defender.
I’d be thinking around $550-600k pa for Zurhaar is plenty, and band 3 compo is about right. Not overly enthused by the prospect of adding him TBH

Amiss, Jackson, Treacy
Sturt, Zurhaar, two small forwards.

I don't mind him. He can play forward (good for 30 goals a year) and is ok running through the midfield for small stints.

If Darcy signs, then I would chase him.

 

[Joao]

The phrase “lowballing” is interesting. When Geelong did (and presumably still do) it, it’s revolutionary, but when we do it we’re being cheapskates. Now obviously the difference in success between the clubs is very large but many would argue the way to succeed is to start changing from the “Whoever wants to stay at Freo, stays at Freo” to “We pay you what we think you’re worth”.

Now maybe we did lowballing someone like Acres, not truly understanding his value. But when you consider his past years at Freo and the fact we don’t actually know what the offer to him was, then IDK. I can’t blame him for leaving for more guaranteed money but I don’t know enough about our offer to know wether we made a mistake or not, especially since we obviously didn’t know how he would perform in 2023.

Thats the thing with players leaving. If you consider a change of coach, start of a rebuild and a presumed change in list management strategy, all within 7 years, then the players leaving is understandable but not a sign of a crisis. It’s only in how long it continues that will tell how much of an issue it is.

I'm not commenting on the rebuild or culture or general list management, I'm just pointing out I don't think McGrath is anywhere near the level required to lose B22 players to get as a FA.

I’m not on the get McGrath bandwagon. I agree with you actually but was just pointing out it is salary cost as FA. I believe for his type the salary required would not be worth it for the team good. I do however believe FA is an area we will look at over the next couple of years. No idea who but won’t be just WA players.

I think salary will become increasingly more valuable to us over the next 5 years as all those sub 24 dudes peak and we have to retain them. So normally the extra salary you pay a FA is offset against the lack of trade, but I just don't think that's value for us anymore.

McGrath is a lot better than Aish level.

I just can't agree with that. McGrath is B grade, just like Aish. If McGrath got injured and lost a yard of pace he'd be worse than Aish.

The only reason I could see us being interested would be due to his haircut. He has the perfect back and sides we like apparently.

 

[Docker82]

We need to lock in Darcy, before we chase any free agents.

That'll happen before Christmas given reports.

Not too much else to worry about from our 2024 group after that. The rest of guys out of contract probably need some performances next season to confirm we should sign them on - quite a few of that remaining group wouldn't have to do much though.

 

[theGav56]

Geelong don't "lowball" anyone. They pay players below market value in the salary cap, and then make up for it with huge incentives outside the salary cap (including post career) which makes their overall compensation extremely high. You have to be very naive to believe Hawkins had been playing on just $300k and not getting something on top outside the cap.

They would certainly have players who could get more elsewhere. Only the high end would be treated as you suggest, and it isn't unique to them.

Do we do it? If not, why not?

 

[Taylor]

There's too many Swaggy Clause puns. Brace yourselves.

 

[DragoDelph]

There's too many Swaggy Clause puns. Brace yourselves.

Onions in the stocking

 

[DQ 4EVER]

We would need to be offering a player good money and a role different to their current team for them to move here, but for some reason the club they are currently at doesn't have that role available or won't pay the same money (or both).

There is always the WA significant other scenario

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Alfonz]

They would certainly have players who could get more elsewhere. Only the high end would be treated as you suggest, and it isn't unique to them.

Do we do it? If not, why not?

Only the high end would be treated like that, but that opens up the room to pay a bit more to their equivalents of Acres, Hamling, etc.

Geelong do have a fairly unique situation being in a bit more regional area with a surf/farm lifestyle. With that region being a mad 1-team area with plenty of supporters/builders/businesses/etc willing to "sponsor" star players during and after their career. Large rural/coastal properties (such as those of Hawkins, Cameron, Dangerfield, etc) are much easier to rort than in metro areas.

All clubs would do it to some degree, but I think Geelong have the perfect set of circumstances and have exploited it as well as possible, which means they do it the best out of all clubs.