List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Joao]

No one here thinks we can afford both Bolton and Worner?

Even if we unload fyfe, Walters and a few fringe players in the next two drafts

We have a fridge full of top end talent signed on with Brayshaw still to extend, Treacy to re-negotiate...

I just don't see how we are paying them their market value (or just under) and bring in both big fish

For me, it's one or the other

Maybe it's a Bolton / Baker, or Worner/ Baker

But surely we can't afford 2 mil for 2 players.

Unless Darcy is shipped off

So for me, maybe this talk encourages Sydney to think about the trade this year - as I'd rather Warner

Bolton doesn't seem like a team player, recency memories of him against us earlier this year selfishly loading up from outside 50 burning his team mates padding his stats


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I have no problem thinking we can afford both.

I ask again, what is the difference between the Hawks chasing Battle (900k), Barrass ($1m), Perryman (however much) and us chasing Bolton and Chad (2.5m total) + a draftee?

Remembering, we've be "rebuilding" (read: ****) since 2016, have lost many B23 players (very well documented) for the last 5. Hawks still thought they were a flag chance in 2018.

What about that is remotely hard to fathom?

If Bolton comes in for 800 to 900k, maybe we can.

If Bolton comes in for 1.2 to 1.3 million, then we can't.

Same with Warner. I don't want anyone who is not willing to give up some cash for team success.

Share your source? How do you know these numbers?

 

[CapitalA]

Its going to be the Pies first + another first at a minimum

Bloke is contracted for 4 years, it aint a firesale, Richmond want him but he wants to come home.

I wouldn't trade 2 first rounders this year for anyone but Warner.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Share your source? How do you know these numbers?

Assuming he keeps his current salary.


This is from 2023. I assume he gets the wage increase, so add 10 to 15% to everything.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-rich-100-how-richmond-will-handle-three-players-earning-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-2024/news-story/9a4ee850eeeb03875fd6d77f7d7f6f3d

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Richmond’s brilliant mid-forward Shai Bolton will join footy’s exclusive group of millionaires from next year with his deal worth over $1.1 million a season.
Bolton signed a lucrative new five-year contract extension in late 2022 which starts next year but is currently in the last year of his existing deal worth around $600,000 a season.
The Herald Sun can reveal that five-year deal is worth well over $1 million a year and even has scope to hit $1.2 million if he ticks off every games-based and best-and-fairest clause.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Bolton as a player you pay 2 firsts any day of the week I think. Perfect player for our list, even more so than Warner imo.

My questions would surround his motivation and everything else. If the club feels that he's all in then great.

That is always my primary concern with these kinds of trades to Freo. He's won two flags already, coming back to live at home again. What's his hunger level going to be like to achieve the ultimate for Freo? Is he going to have the unbridled work ethic like most of our young core to leave no stone unturned to work hard and push themselves to be better? Or is he happy to be comfy back at home and just do some flashy stuff every now and then cos he's got flags and a big pay check already.

 

[CapitalA]

Similar value to Neale when he left really. In more compromised drafts, the Pies and Port pick is pretty similar to what we got for Lachie. I think it will be those picks with something after 40 coming back we can use

Neale was 6 and 19, so I would keep our middle 1st rounder if we did it, but I still wouldn't give up two 1sts this year for Bolton....maybe pies pick and f1st.

 

[Joao]

Assuming he keeps his current salary.


This is from 2023. I assume he gets the wage increase, so add 10 to 15% to everything.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-rich-100-how-richmond-will-handle-three-players-earning-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-2024/news-story/9a4ee850eeeb03875fd6d77f7d7f6f3d

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Richmond’s brilliant mid-forward Shai Bolton will join footy’s exclusive group of millionaires from next year with his deal worth over $1.1 million a season.
Bolton signed a lucrative new five-year contract extension in late 2022 which starts next year but is currently in the last year of his existing deal worth around $600,000 a season.
The Herald Sun can reveal that five-year deal is worth well over $1 million a year and even has scope to hit $1.2 million if he ticks off every games-based and best-and-fairest clause.

Not how much he is on. I want to know how you know we can afford 900k but not 1.2m?

 

[malpaso]

We have a need for Bolton first and Warner second (suspect we'll draft another mid this year).

We don't necessarily have to match Bolton's contract from Richmond, if he wants to get to WA (and Freo) then he'll be open to re-negotiating it leaving us to just compensate Richmond. Seems to me he has two goals here, 1) Get to WA and 2) Not play in a cellar dweller for the next 4 years.

 

[malpaso]

That is always my primary concern with these kinds of trades to Freo. He's won two flags already, coming back to live at home again. What's his hunger level going to be like to achieve the ultimate for Freo? Is he going to have the unbridled work ethic like most of our young core to leave no stone unturned to work hard and push themselves to be better? Or is he happy to be comfy back at home and just do some flashy stuff every now and then cos he's got flags and a big pay check already.

He's a proven performer in WA, whether his team was at the top or the bottom. In our team he will also be a complimentary piece and not relied upon so heavily (time in midfield etc.) which makes him that much more dangerous to opposition teams.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

He's a proven performer in WA, whether his team was at the top or the bottom. In our team he will also be a complimentary piece and not relied upon so heavily (time in midfield etc.) which makes him that much more dangerous to opposition teams.

Oh I agree he'd be an absolute weapon and it's a great fit on paper, as long as he is hungry to keep carving out a great career and not just coast.

 

[Purple Suit]

Assuming he keeps his current salary.


This is from 2023. I assume he gets the wage increase, so add 10 to 15% to everything.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-rich-100-how-richmond-will-handle-three-players-earning-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-2024/news-story/9a4ee850eeeb03875fd6d77f7d7f6f3d

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Richmond’s brilliant mid-forward Shai Bolton will join footy’s exclusive group of millionaires from next year with his deal worth over $1.1 million a season.
Bolton signed a lucrative new five-year contract extension in late 2022 which starts next year but is currently in the last year of his existing deal worth around $600,000 a season.
The Herald Sun can reveal that five-year deal is worth well over $1 million a year and even has scope to hit $1.2 million if he ticks off every games-based and best-and-fairest clause.

We would just smooth it out. Sign on / moving bonus for the first year, add a few extra years and have him at the same rate as our best players so it is even. The front loading part is only for year 1 & rest at a good clip anyway.

 

[millsy]

I have no problem thinking we can afford both.

I ask again, what is the difference between the Hawks chasing Battle (900k), Barrass ($1m), Perryman (however much) and us chasing Bolton and Chad (2.5m total) + a draftee?

Remembering, we've be "rebuilding" (read: ****) since 2016, have lost many B23 players (very well documented) for the last 5. Hawks still thought they were a flag chance in 2018.

What about that is remotely hard to fathom?


Share your source? How do you know these numbers?

Come at it the other way though. If we can comfortably afford to bring in 2 players at $2.5m then we're miles better than most clubs at cap management, got the most loyal list going, and/or we've been too conservative in terms of cap use? Like what are we doing with $2.5m if neither come?

 

[Ge3ks]

We would just smooth it out. Sign on / moving bonus for the first year, add a few extra years and have him at the same rate as our best players so it is even. The front loading part is only for year 1 & rest at a good clip anyway.

Purple Suit is in finance, confirmed.

 

[DragoDelph]

Come at it the other way though. If we can comfortably afford to bring in 2 players at $2.5m then we're miles better than most clubs at cap management, got the most loyal list going, and/or we've been too conservative in terms of cap use? Like what are we doing with $2.5m if neither come?

Giving the team some nice bonuses.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Not how much he is on. I want to know how you know we can afford 900k but not 1.2m?

This is guess work.

but it also impacts other contracts. I don't think Serong, Brayshaw, Young, Treacy would be over 900k. I am not sure Bolton is player you want getting paid the most at the club.

Especially not 300k more than the next.

Also, if he is willing to leave some cash on the table for success, it shows he wants success and not just cash.

 

[Taylor]

I would explore the possibility that Richmond wants to buy an extra first round pick, probably next season given they have almost enough picks already to delist half the squad.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Neale was 6 and 19, so I would keep our middle 1st rounder if we did it, but I still wouldn't give up two 1sts this year for Bolton....maybe pies pick and f1st.

Depends on where they end up. Walls is on record confirming teams take into account where picks finish on draft night after bids so even with missing finals and Port finishing 8th, the picks could be 11 and 14 by the time they are used. That's about the same as 6 and 19.

I agree we'd need something back to take to the draft which shouldn't be a problem with their haul

 

[Joao]

Come at it the other way though. If we can comfortably afford to bring in 2 players at $2.5m then we're miles better than most clubs at cap management, got the most loyal list going, and/or we've been too conservative in terms of cap use? Like what are we doing with $2.5m if neither come?

It doesn't say that at all. It just says we have comparable cap space to other clubs in similar situations (Hawks).

The fact that we might have the opportunity to use the cash on two guns instead of 1 gun and 2 roleplayers doesn't affect numbers. I am 100% sure that if the Hawks could get Weitering and Taylor for the same price as the 3 they are targetting, they would do that instead.

We'll do the same thing every club does if we don't spend it. You pay your existing players more now so you're ready when you successfully attract a player. That's how you get in the position in the first place.

This is guess work.

but it also impacts other contracts. I don't think Serong, Brayshaw, Young, Treacy would be over 900k. I am not sure Bolton is player you want getting paid the most at the club.

Especially not 300k more than the next.

Also, if he is willing to leave some cash on the table for success, it shows he wants success and not just cash.

I don't think the guesswork is useful here. Just operate with the information we have.

I do agree it would be nice if players came for a chance at flags and not just money, but you can't begrudge a player looking after their family either.

 

[Superkoops]

Assuming he keeps his current salary.


This is from 2023. I assume he gets the wage increase, so add 10 to 15% to everything.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-rich-100-how-richmond-will-handle-three-players-earning-more-than-a-million-dollars-in-2024/news-story/9a4ee850eeeb03875fd6d77f7d7f6f3d

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Richmond’s brilliant mid-forward Shai Bolton will join footy’s exclusive group of millionaires from next year with his deal worth over $1.1 million a season.
Bolton signed a lucrative new five-year contract extension in late 2022 which starts next year but is currently in the last year of his existing deal worth around $600,000 a season.
The Herald Sun can reveal that five-year deal is worth well over $1 million a year and even has scope to hit $1.2 million if he ticks off every games-based and best-and-fairest clause.

A salary this high for a small forward concerns me. As does the trade cost. We still need to sign Treacy and Brayshaw. We can end up too top heavy like the Eagles a few years ago with a small number of players taking up a large portion of the salary cap.

I’m all for Warner in 2025 when he is out of contract. We can also have a crack at the end of this season but I honestly believe Sydney won’t entertain the idea at all.

We lost a chunk of players in the pursuit of Jackson. The offers for Logue and Acres were a result of needing salary cap space for Jackson. Some rumours on here we also chased Gus Brayshaw.

Either way there will be a cost if we pursue Bolton and then Warner. Clubs will start coming hard at other players. Have a look at what is happening at West Coast. Waterman is now being targeted by clubs because West Coast signed him at the time for a reasonable $450kpa. He pulls a Wayne Carey season out and clubs start getting in his ear saying we can offer you $700k.

The cost I’m referring to is not just salary but other players.

 

[Alfonz]

I assume you can't explain to me how to design a rocket to photograph Saturn, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Us spending $2.5m on trade ins is perfectly consistent with what a lot of other clubs are doing/trying to do.

#believewehavespace

You are ignoring what we currently have.
Hawthorn can go on a spending spree because they don't have many highly paid players already on their list.

We already have Young, Darcy, Cox, Serong, Brayshaw, Jackson. I would guess they would (or will with Brayshaw's next deal) be in the top 100 paid players in the league. From memory of the Herald Sun lists from previous years, 6-7 was about the number for the good clubs. The increased salary cap doesn't necessarily increase that number if everyone gets a bump.

With Bolton and Warner, we'd be attempting to have 8. And then we have AA calibre defenders to pay, plus two emerging KPF's. Not sure what we've done with Amiss' contract, but I'm not even including him in our top earners bracket. Treacy is OOC end of 2026, and he is going to be getting monster offers from Victorian clubs. At the rate he's going, he will be another $1 million dollar player we have to find money for.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I don't think the guesswork is useful here. Just operate with the information we have.

I do agree it would be nice if players came for a chance at flags and not just money, but you can't begrudge a player looking after their family either.

How much are you willing to pay Bolton?

Would you pay him more than Brayshaw, Serong and young?

I don't mind having them all paid roughly equal, but I don't think you should have one paid significantly more than the others.

Same with Warner.

 

[DragoDelph]

We. Did. Not. Lose. Logue. And. Acres. Because. Of. Jackson.



Meek, sure, but that’s more playing opportunity than anything.

 

[Joao]

You are ignoring what we currently have.
Hawthorn can go on a spending spree because they don't have many highly paid players already on their list.

We already have Young, Darcy, Cox, Serong, Brayshaw, Jackson. I would guess they would (or will with Brayshaw's next deal) be in the top 100 paid players in the league. From memory of the Herald Sun lists from previous years, 6-7 was about the number for the good clubs. The increased salary cap doesn't necessarily increase that number if everyone gets a bump.

With Bolton and Warner, we'd be attempting to have 8. And then we have AA calibre defenders to pay, plus two emerging KPF's. Not sure what we've done with Amiss' contract, but I'm not even including him in our top earners bracket. Treacy is OOC end of 2026, and he is going to be getting monster offers from Victorian clubs. At the rate he's going, he will be another $1 million dollar player we have to find money for.

How do you know what the Hawks players are paid compared to ours?

You've got massive purple goggles on. If our players were all so deserving of all this money compared to everyone else, why haven't we been absolutely smashing the league?

We played finals once between 2016 and 2023. That's once in 8 seasons. We were mediocre at best for the majority of that stretch. If the premiership tigers can add Lynch. If the Cats could add Cameron its not even remotely difficult to envisage a world where we have cap space for two players like that fresh of basically a decade of SFA.

That's leaving aside however much we got off the books between Logue, Acres, Henry, Schultz and whomever I have forgotten.

This is a really simple idea being completely overcomplicated by everyone here.

How much are you willing to pay Bolton?

Would you pay him more than Brayshaw, Serong and young?

I don't mind having them all paid roughly equal, but I don't think you should have one paid significantly more than the others.

Same with Warner.

I'd pay Warner and Bolton 1 - 1.2 if that's what it took. The culture side of it I'll leave to JL and the leaders to sort out. I don't for a second think the list management crew tap up players like this, knowing what they'll cost and just tell our current players to wear it. They'll absolutely be involved in some capacity.

If we drafted them, no, but that's not how trades/FA work. Players take pay cuts to stay, not to leave.

 

[Purple Suit]

A salary this high for a small forward concerns me. As does the trade cost. We still need to sign Treacy and Brayshaw. We can end up too top heavy like the Eagles a few years ago with a small number of players taking up a large portion of the salary cap.

I’m all for Warner in 2025 when he is out of contract. We can also have a crack at the end of this season but I honestly believe Sydney won’t entertain the idea at all.

We lost a chunk of players in the pursuit of Jackson. The offers for Logue and Acres were a result of needing salary cap space for Jackson. Some rumours on here we also chased Gus Brayshaw.

Either way there will be a cost if we pursue Bolton and then Warner. Clubs will start coming hard at other players. Have a look at what is happening at West Coast. Waterman is now being targeted by clubs because West Coast signed him at the time for a reasonable $450kpa. He pulls a Wayne Carey season out and clubs start getting in his ear saying we can offer you $700k.

The cost I’m referring to is not just salary but other players.

We didn’t lose players when Jackson arrived for salary cap reasons. We actually would have banked more cap than we spent with our outs.

Lobb - wanted to leave on big money
Meek - Left for opportunity
Logue - God father offer
Tucker - 2 for 1 deal and we wanted him off our books.
Acres - Low balled due to injury history. Was a mistake.

Arrivals
Jackson - Big Money
JOM - Hawks paying 1st year salary.
Plus draftees.

Last year we lost Shultz & Henry with only Sharp arriving.

I think we have probably been paying under the cap previously so can pay 105% in the future.

It’s obviously a balancing act but our planning and discipline has been fantastic since the Hogan trade. I trust they know what they are doing and it’s not going to be a Collingwood or GC cap crisis in the future.

 

[Taylor]

Aren't we at the point where players might want to play here and not purely for huge money?

 

[Joao]

We've been so careful, methodical and consistent as a club for about 5 years now.

There is no way I can believe that, with that pattern of behaviour, the list management are going to blow it all up by chasing players we can't afford.