List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[dude316]

If we're not delisting anybody else (i.e. Burgess), then we're down to 1 list management option - move 2 players from the senior list to the rookie list (i.e. delist & re-draft in the RD), and upgrade 1 player from the rookie list (most likely Keane).

There are no other options available to us, unless an unexpected trade pops up in the next week, removing a contracted player from our list.

Could a player like Smith for example refuse to be delisted and re-rookied? Since he has a contract, could he just flat out oppose becoming a rookie? (Even just for ego reasons)

 

[BunjiMC]

It will be interesting for our pick #4. They will be the only new player (excluding trades). I think this puts a priority of taking Draper, an SA kid.

 

[Vader]

Could a player like Smith for example refuse to be delisted and re-rookied? Since he has a contract, could he just flat out oppose becoming a rookie? (Even just for ego reasons)

The best answer I can give you is... it's complicated.

The club can unilaterally delist him - and he has no say in it. What happens then gets murky...

By delisting him, he becomes a DFA, and is free to sign with any other club. If that happens, then we have generated a free list position - but we're liable for any difference between his 2025 AFC contract and his 2025 contract with his new club.

Alternatively, he can drop out of the AFL system completely. Again, this gives us a free list position - but we'd have to pay out his whole 2025 salary, including it under our 2024 cap. This is the least likely option, given that his whole refusal to be rookie listed is based on him thinking he's still an AFL footballer.

Assuming he doesn't sign elsewhere as a DFA, and doesn't drop out of the AFL completely - he needs to nominate for the draft. Once that happens, anyone can grab him in either the ND or RD. If someone gazumps us, then (once again), we're liable for any salary difference - and we end up with a "live" pick in the RD. If they don't gazump us, we re-draft him in the RD, and he goes on our rookie list.

Lots of ifs & maybes there, but the most likely outcome remains Smith going on our rookie list.

 

[ams4crows]

Playstation trade time

Firstly ANB is a 3rd rounder and steak knife pick swaps at best. I dont understand why people are suggesting he is a 2nd. Thats ridiculous. He is 29 next year. But what do I expect from group who think Luko is a 2nd rounder. For Reference, Jack Billings same age, better output went from St Kilda to Melbourne in 2023 for a third rounder. So i would not expect Melbourne to be arguing for a 2nd rounder.


ANB - I expect this to be a future 3rd. Pretty straight forward.

Crows - ANB
Demons - F3

Peatling - It wouldnt surprise me if this is a future 2nd. GWS may want pick 25 though because of all the talent they lost so maybe willing to trade some later picks to sweeten the deal. so perhaps pick 25 and for Peatling and pick 49.

(this one is harder, probably could easily go either way, my prediction is future 2nd)
Crows - Peatling or Peatling, F3
GWS - Future 2nd Pick 25

Crows - Pick 12, Pick 46
Gold Coast - Future 1st, Pick 42

End of trade period
Crows> Peatling, ANB, Cumming, Draft Picks: 4, 12, 25, 46, 60

Summary, its a big talent injection onto the list at the expense of next years drafting as the club has seemingly made it clear it wants several players from this years draft. However, with multiple years draft picks available to trade next year, should be easy enough to trade back into next years draft.

Alex just came 3rd in Melbourne's Best and Fairest, been best 22 for 5 years or more and a premiership player he's worth more than a 3rd rounder in a trade.

 

[Two Eight]

The best answer I can give you is... it's complicated.

The club can unilaterally delist him - and he has no say in it. What happens then gets murky...

By delisting him, he becomes a DFA, and is free to sign with any other club. If that happens, then we have generated a free list position - but we're liable for any difference between his 2025 AFC contract and his 2025 contract with his new club.

Alternatively, he can drop out of the AFL system completely. Again, this gives us a free list position - but we'd have to pay out his whole 2025 salary, including it under our 2024 cap. This is the least likely option, given that his whole refusal to be rookie listed is based on him thinking he's still an AFL footballer.

Assuming he doesn't sign elsewhere as a DFA, and doesn't drop out of the AFL completely - he needs to nominate for the draft. Once that happens, anyone can grab him in either the ND or RD. If someone gazumps us, then (once again), we're liable for any salary difference - and we end up with a "live" pick in the RD. If they don't gazump us, we re-draft him in the RD, and he goes on our rookie list.

Lots of ifs & maybes there, but the most likely outcome remains Smith going on our rookie list.

What is the point of the rookie list if you have to pay someone their same salary if they are down graded from the main list? Or do they get a pay cut? They can also be picked to play an AFL game at any time, don’t need to be upgraded to the main list like before? Don’t get why we need a rookie list really- just have a main list of 42?

 

[Moonwatcher]

Ouch

You can see why there was a sharp drop off after 2017

 

[Moonwatcher]

Alex just came 3rd in Melbourne's Best and Fairest, been best 22 for 5 years or more and a premiership player he's worth more than a 3rd rounder in a trade.

Would that make him the only premiership player in our squad?

 

[Vader]

What is the point of the rookie list if you have to pay someone their same salary if they are down graded from the main list? Or do they get a pay cut? They can also be picked to play an AFL game at any time, don’t need to be upgraded to the main list like before? Don’t get why we need a rookie list really- just have a main list of 42?

It's a fair question. The difference between the senior and rookie lists are minimal these days.

New players drafted to the rookie list are only given 12 month contracts (compared with 2-3 years for players selected in the ND). The first $80K (probably more now) of rookies' salaries are excluded from the salary cap.

...and that's it. Just those 2 differences.

The reason we need to move players to/from the rookie list is to meet the AFL's mandatory list sizes and ND selection numbers.

On SM-A5360 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Two Eight]

It's a fair question. The difference between the senior and rookie lists are minimal these days.

New players drafted to the rookie list are only given 12 month contracts (compared with 2-3 years for players selected in the ND). The first $80K (probably more now) of rookies' salaries are excluded from the salary cap.

...and that's it. Just those 2 differences.

The reason we need to move players to/from the rookie list is to meet the AFL's mandatory list sizes and ND selection numbers.

On SM-A5360 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Thanks, you are pretty knowledgeable about all this stuff. Do you think the Crows will have done well after this trade and draft period?

 

[Vader]

Thanks, you are pretty knowledgeable about all this stuff. Do you think the Crows will have done well after this trade and draft period?

I think our list will be in a much better place than it was this year.

On SM-A5360 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Caputo]

Is there a chance the younger Michalaney can be a CAT B Rookie if no one Drafts him in main Draft. Similar to how Borlase and Newchurch were originally on list.

 

[Vader]

Is there a chance the younger Michalaney can be a CAT B Rookie if no one Drafts him in main Draft. Similar to how Borlase and Newchurch were originally on list.

No. He's not eligible for Cat B rookie status.

Here are the rules regarding eligibility for Cat B rookie status:

10.1 Rookie List – Establishment and Number
b) In addition to maintaining the maximum number of allowable Category A Rookie Players on their Rookie List under Rule 10.1, each Club may include a maximum of two (2) extra Players on its Category B Rookie List provided those Players are:
(i) former International Scholarship List Players at that Club who have been nominated under Rule 13.5 or 13.8;
(ii) former Club Academy players at that Club who have been nominated under Rule 14.4;
(iii) International Players;
(iv) Players who have not been registered or played in an Australian football competition for 3 years immediately before inclusion on the Rookie List;
(v) a Qualified NGA Player of the Club who has been nominated in accordance with Rule 15.8(c).

Source: AFL Rules 2024

Jack Michalanney does not qualify under any of those criteria.

 

[GreyCrow]

sorry missed walker but yes.
milera hopefully sorts out his body

I hope he can but he also doesnt have a spot

Like Smith his HBF spot should be going to younger players

I also hope he gets fit and 100% but I fear he will be the victim of time passing him by

 

[NTRabbit]

What is the point of the rookie list if you have to pay someone their same salary if they are down graded from the main list? Or do they get a pay cut? They can also be picked to play an AFL game at any time, don’t need to be upgraded to the main list like before? Don’t get why we need a rookie list really- just have a main list of 42?

There's no real point to the Category A rookie list anymore, it should have been dispensed with years ago and the positions just folded into the main list. Why the AFL won't do it I don't know, because all of the rule changes that have stripped its original function while trying to chase relevance prove the AFL knows it as well as anyone else. (I lie, I do know, it's because they don't want to pay the bump in minimum wage that the AFLPA want to come with it)

Only Category B retains a useful function, encouraging clubs to spread the gospel of AFL with low risk home and abroad to potential players they would never risk the money on otherwise, potentially opening up new markets for TV rights.

 

[crow2crow]

The best answer I can give you is... it's complicated.

The club can unilaterally delist him - and he has no say in it. What happens then gets murky...

By delisting him, he becomes a DFA, and is free to sign with any other club. If that happens, then we have generated a free list position - but we're liable for any difference between his 2025 AFC contract and his 2025 contract with his new club.

Alternatively, he can drop out of the AFL system completely. Again, this gives us a free list position - but we'd have to pay out his whole 2025 salary, including it under our 2024 cap. This is the least likely option, given that his whole refusal to be rookie listed is based on him thinking he's still an AFL footballer.

Assuming he doesn't sign elsewhere as a DFA, and doesn't drop out of the AFL completely - he needs to nominate for the draft. Once that happens, anyone can grab him in either the ND or RD. If someone gazumps us, then (once again), we're liable for any salary difference - and we end up with a "live" pick in the RD. If they don't gazump us, we re-draft him in the RD, and he goes on our rookie list.

Lots of ifs & maybes there, but the most likely outcome remains Smith going on our rookie list.

would that be so bad if it happened. in that scenario we're not paying his full money any more and hes not playing afl next year for us anyway.

 

[WeeBlake]

If we're not delisting anybody else (i.e. Burgess), then we're down to 1 list management option - move 2 players from the senior list to the rookie list (i.e. delist & re-draft in the RD), and upgrade 1 player from the rookie list (most likely Keane).

There are no other options available to us, unless an unexpected trade pops up in the next week, removing a contracted player from our list.

Wouldn’t be a huge surprise if a youngish fringe player asked for and got a trade, especially with 3 best 22 players coming in. Berry, for example or maybe Taylor, or even Nank.

 

[1970crow]

Well the scenario still counts just remove the gc trade and steak knife picks. Crows will take Welsh at 25. So that means this is us for the off season.

If thats the case its still an A+++ off season for us. AFL wise its still an A.

25 is far too much, if that’s what we’re left with we need to trade it for something in the late 30s to mid 40s and move the balance into 2025. That said, Kelly has already said 25 will form the basis of ANB trade I thought?

 

[1970crow]

Could a player like Smith for example refuse to be delisted and re-rookied? Since he has a contract, could he just flat out oppose becoming a rookie? (Even just for ego reasons)

Yep, he’d need to nominate for that draft. So we’d just have to pay him out and happy days, we’ve got an extra spot.

 

[crow2crow]

25 is far too much, if that’s what we’re left with we need to trade it for something in the late 30s to mid 40s and move the balance into 2025. That said, Kelly has already said 25 will form the basis of ANB trade I thought?

he has but 25 will slide to 35 the way its going so as I said fews weeks back definitely could get swallowed by an early welsh bid
I dont agree he will get to the 40s at all

 

[Cromulant]

he has but 25 will slide to 35 the way its going so as I said fews weeks back definitely could get swallowed by an early welsh bid
I dont agree he will get to the 40s at all

Based on what ??

He COULD even slide to the rookie draft, unlikely but it's not beyond the realms.

 

[1970crow]

he has but 25 will slide to 35 the way its going so as I said fews weeks back definitely could get swallowed by an early welsh bid
I dont agree he will get to the 40s at all

Not sure I’ve seen a prediction where he’s not going mid to late 30s. And not sure 25 blows out by 10, BNE will likely burn a couple matching with their current 18 at 1. How many FA compo pre 25? Battle, Perryman and Cumming, not sure there’s many more.

 

[Cromulant]

Not sure I’ve seen a prediction where he’s not going mid to late 30s. And not sure 25 blows out by 10, BNE will likely burn a couple matching with their current 18 at 1. How many FA compo pre 25? Battle, Perryman and Cumming, not sure there’s many more.

3 at the moment, that's likely to be it.

Suns will need to match a bid for their academy prospect Lombardi, Essendon have won in Kako. That 25 probably blows out past 30 but probably not mid 30s.

 

[1970crow]

3 at the moment, that's likely to be it.

Suns will need to match a bid for their academy prospect Lombardi, Essendon have won in Kako. That 25 probably blows out past 30 but probably not mid 30s.

Where are Lombardi and Kako predicted to go?

 

[Cromulant]

Where are Lombardi and Kako predicted to go?

Top 15, Lombardi could go inside 10

 

[Vader]

would that be so bad if it happened. in that scenario we're not paying his full money any more and hes not playing afl next year for us anyway.

It's going to happen to 2 players this year. The List Mathematics makes that very clear - we have no other option. Whether it's Smith or not, I don't overly care. We have several viable candidates, of which Smith is only one.