List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Mutineer]

The royal "we don't know what to do with him" is on the club. The supporters do.

Do they?
He looks more a wingman/half forward than a coalface type midfielder to me, at least that's where I think he has the potential to do the most damage.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

With Gunston & Cameron it's just a matter of organic growth, as they gained age/experience/maturity.

Stengle's original development was done by Richmond. There's no doubt whatsoever that Stengle is playing better football for Geelong than he did for either Richmond or Adelaide, so maybe there's an element of "better development" here. I'd also argue that he's able to play better because he's playing in a team with better systems ("a rising tide lifts all boats"), but that doesn't totally discount development as a factor.

We never made Cameron feel like he was the man or was going to be ‘the man’

That’s all we needed to do to get the best level out of him

He went looking for that and it paid off for him , good on him

 

[Gtowncrow]

A hypothetical.
Let's say that West Coast were very keen to draft Curtin and were willing to offer their future first round pick. Let's also say that we were interested in both Curtin and the West Coast pick, but not knowing where that pick would eventuate, we decided to draft the player and wait to see where that pick would be.
Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that we have a tentative agreement with West Coast to trade Curtin for their first this year - provided it was within a certain set of picks (say top 4)?

It would give us a look at Curtin and also certainty over what the pick would be. It would also (possibly) explain our lack of desire to develop Curtin properly (or it could just be that Nicks is a flog).

In the end it would mean we trade Curtin for pick 3. We then hit the draft with picks 3 and 4 and get two goes at finding elite midfield talent.

Is it possible?

This has precisely been my thoughts as well.

Looking at last years draft, WC simply couldn't pass on Reid, even for Curtin. So they throw an under table offer to us to draft him which gets repaid this year with a premium attached.

This is pure PlayStation by me and definitely draft tampering (cheating) but I can see a world where this could be beneficial for both clubs and the player.

 

[Gtowncrow]

I’d like to think that my interaction with this board has been respectful (both ways) over a decent period of time. I didn’t come in here to post my thoughts and try a sell a trade to Crows supporters, I was asked directly by a member of your board if I’d trade our 1R pick for Curtin.

I responded with how I think that looks to WCE list management. It wasn’t intended to be disrespectful and I certainly wasn’t forcing it down anyone’s throat, even putting a caveat that I don’t think the Crows would look to trade Curtin.

There would also be plenty on our board who wouldn’t want to do that deal and miss out on Draper. Happy to keep my responses to such questions to myself in the future and leave Crows fans to speculate between themselves, no dramas at all.

Thanks for answering my question. I'm sorry it induced a bit of perceived hostility. I apologise to you for that.

But I'll ask another question if you're still here...

What is the general WC fan gut response to the sacking of the coach? What is the "mood" as you see it?

 

[eaglevision]

Thanks for answering my question. I'm sorry it induced a bit of perceived hostility. I apologise to you for that.

But I'll ask another question if you're still here...

What is the general WC fan gut response to the sacking of the coach? What is the "mood" as you see it?

All good mate, I think a couple just didn’t see that I was responding to a question from you which is fair enough.

Simmo is a premiership coach and will be always be loved and respected for that. He was on thin ice but for me it became clear (particularly against the Crows and finally the Hawks game) that he didn’t have the adaptability to implement plan B, C etc and especially not the ability to counter opposition coach moves when they are on top which Mitchell mercilessly shone a glaring spotlight on.

The other main criticism I had was his refusal to play and develop youth and reward strong WAFL form, preferring the credits crew of premiership players (Gaff, Darling etc) who were given far too long when they should have been playing WAFL in what were clearly development years.

He was given a respectful send off and I think all parties realised parting ways was in the best interests of the club. I’ll leave it at that as I don’t want to clog up the Crows draft and trade board. Perhaps you have a new coach thread if you wish to continue this discussion but at least Simmo knew how to coach for most of his career.

 

[Bazz_27]

We never made Cameron feel like he was the man or was going to be ‘the man’

That’s all we needed to do to get the best level out of him

He went looking for that and it paid off for him , good on him

So you think we should have moved betts on earlier to make him the man?

 

[Danger in Texas]

So you think we should have moved betts on earlier to make him the man?

Was very unfortunate timing, in that the year after Cameron left was the year Eddie started to really decline

We definitely should’ve nurtured Cameron more, though - wasn’t there a rumour his motorbike celebration was a direct response to Pyke telling him to ‘get on his bike’ and work up the ground?

 

[GreyCrow]

Maybe the penny dropped with Stengle (maybe not last weekend though) too? Will he interested to see how he plays now with the comfort of a 5 year deal

First weekend out after and he is ''sleeping '' on the dance floor

Yeah thats gonna end well

 

[jimvic]

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

Gunston

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Was very unfortunate timing, in that the year after Cameron left was the year Eddie started to really decline

We definitely should’ve nurtured Cameron more, though - wasn’t there a rumour his motorbike celebration was a direct response to Pyke telling him to ‘get on his bike’ and work up the ground?

I know the rumours at the time were he was fed up with the city of Adelaide but I think he'd have stayed if we were more proactive in showing how crucial he'd be to our future. Always felt we relegated him to a role player and Eddie's sidekick, probably left him feeling underappreciated.

 

[Bazz_27]

Spoiler here guys but we got a decent player in return and we didn't actually ruin his development, he decided for whatever factor that he wanted to play elsewhere. The only person that can be held responsible for that is Reid

 

[GreyCrow]

I know the rumours at the time were he was fed up with the city of Adelaide but I think he'd have stayed if we were more proactive in showing how crucial he'd be to our future. Always felt we relegated him to a role player and Eddie's sidekick, probably left him feeling underappreciated.

As much as it hurt his ego he was a side kick

 

[GROTTO]

Was very unfortunate timing, in that the year after Cameron left was the year Eddie started to really decline

We definitely should’ve nurtured Cameron more, though - wasn’t there a rumour his motorbike celebration was a direct response to Pyke telling him to ‘get on his bike’ and work up the ground?

At the time, wasnt Eddie's current contract meant to expire at the end of 2017.

In hindsight, we blew it, by extending the contract earlier and not appreciating that CC was the future and making him our priority.

I think the Crows thinking of the time, was to keep the group to together for a sustained run at a flag. Ironically it was just one year which we had a chance.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

As much as it hurt his ego he was a side kick

Sidekick for 2017, sure, but who knows what role we sold to him beyond 2017. He'd be justified in his frustration if we didn't give him credit where it was due, considering he went on to win 2 All Australians and 4 leading goalkicker awards.

 

[GreyCrow]

Sidekick for 2017, sure, but who knows what role we sold to him beyond 2017. He'd be justified in his frustration if we didn't give him credit where it was due, considering he went on to win 2 All Australians and 4 leading goalkicker awards.

Eddie played here until the end of 2019

Whatever CC was told it would have still been Eddies show

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So you think we should have moved betts on earlier to make him the man?

We should have told Cameron we love him
And we want him to be the main man going forward for next 6-7 years and Eddie would have been there for him initially

We didn’t

 

[Geoffa32]

And it doesn’t work with Murphy

Yep, he is bad at it.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I know the rumours at the time were he was fed up with the city of Adelaide but I think he'd have stayed if we were more proactive in showing how crucial he'd be to our future. Always felt we relegated him to a role player and Eddie's sidekick, probably left him feeling underappreciated.

We didn’t sell him the vision for how big his career was going to be

Brisbane did

You’d hope we’d learn from that

 

[Geoffa32]

We should have told Cameron we love him
And we want him to be the main man going forward for next 6-7 years and Eddie would have been there for him initially

We didn’t

Cameron left for $$$$

Brisbane identified the talent offered him more than we were giving him.

Good on him.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vader]

We should have told Cameron we love him
And we want him to be the main man going forward for next 6-7 years and Eddie would have been there for him initially

We didn’t

How do you know what he was/wasnt told? Or is this just a JeffCrowe assumption?

 

[1990crow]

How do you know what he was/wasnt told? Or is this just a JeffCrowe assumption?

It's a pretty safe assumption given Cameron left, and we weren't able to match Brisbane's offer or weren't willing to.
That and Cameron's petulant bike handle celebration aimed at Pyke suggest the club and Charlie weren't aligned with what he could be.

He proved us wrong.

 

[Vader]

It's a pretty safe assumption given Cameron left, and we weren't able to match Brisbane's offer or weren't willing to.
That and Cameron's petulant bike handle celebration aimed at Pyke suggest the club and Charlie weren't aligned with what he could be.

He proved us wrong.

It's not a safe assumption at all. All indications are that he left for $$$, and all other reasons are a very distant second.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

It's not a safe assumption at all. All indications are that he left for $$$, and all other reasons are a very distant second.

He reportedly left for 650k a year. Surely a figure the club would have been willing to match if they were prepared to promote him from the "sidekick" gig.

 

[MRB37]

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

I think the problem is Curtin is a bit of a unicorn and we tend to be pretty unsophisticated in how we develop players. We see a tall guy and immediately think "key defender/forward" and the thought of him being a tall mid/wing don't come naturally at all.

 

[GROTTO]

Just remember any discussion of us keeping Charlie, would have involves us not drafting Fogarty.