List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Mostyn]

Too many people are confusing our disappointing management of him with the promising signs he shows when we actually utilise him in positions you’d expect him to thrive in.

That's not true.

The flaws in Curtin's game were pretty obvious early on, and they weren't as obvious playing against immature bodies. He's worked on them in the SANFL, though - more physically competitive one on one, doesn't just reach in but gets his body in, etc


It doesn't matter if he's been disappointing because we're not trading him.

 

[George Kramer]

That's not true.

The flaws in Curtin's game were pretty obvious early on, and they weren't as obvious playing against immature bodies. He's worked on them in the SANFL, though - more physically competitive one on one, doesn't just reach in but gets his body in, etc


It doesn't matter if he's been disappointing because we're not trading him.

If we were playing him as a defender…..which we stupidly did.

Interesting that we’ve taken until nearly the seasons done to try him as a midfielder and with Burns recent comments that’s where they’ll be playing him from now on.

But don’t you get tired of defending every stupid club decision, must be exhausting and cause for self reflection.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

That's not true.

The flaws in Curtin's game were pretty obvious early on, and they weren't as obvious playing against immature bodies. He's worked on them in the SANFL, though - more physically competitive one on one, doesn't just reach in but gets his body in, etc


It doesn't matter if he's been disappointing because we're not trading him.

You think he’s been disappointing? There was a patch prior to his midfield move that was worrying but he’s been largely promising when given a license to attack the ball. Worrying signs were when we trialled him as a lockdown defender through the pre-season and opening months of the season.

He’s arguably been our best SANFL midfielder every time he’s played on-ball. Very promising for a first year 197cm utility.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We backed the players who spearheaded our 2015-2017 campaigns and valued them accordingly.

In hindsight it wasn't the best course of action as their performances tailed off quicker than expected plus it meant a few up-and-comers got squeezed out.

To our credit we seem to have learnt from this. We've prioritised long term contracts for the likes of Soligo, Rachele rather than focusing purely on rewarding tenure.

I think we're balancing our list & cap better now. Even stuff like heavy front-loading on Dawson and Rankine to get them across the line during stinky low-cap-pressure years was smart business.

Agree , I reckon Reid has learnt on his feet pretty quickly

I’d keep Reid but change up recruiting pretty significantly

 

[Jeffcrowe]

You think he’s been disappointing? There was a patch prior to his midfield move that was worrying but he’s been largely promising when given a license to attack the ball. Worrying signs were when we trialled him as a lockdown defender through the pre-season and opening months of the season.

He’s arguably been our best SANFL midfielder every time he’s played on-ball. Very promising for a first year 197cm utility.

Much more advanced on Jordan Dawson at same age
Similar type of player with similar type of upside that Dawson had

Dawson was always better overhead but Dan’s got a few things on Dawson at same age too

 

[Crow till I die]

Much more advanced on Jordan Dawson at same age
Similar type of player with similar type of upside that Dawson had

Dawson was always better overhead but Dan’s got a few things on Dawson at same age too

We have to move heaven and earth to keep him imo. I just hope he doesn't feel that badly burned that he has lost faith in the club. Maybe Nicks will get the bump at years end and that would be a good start

 

[Nicks_out_now]

Agree , I reckon Reid has learnt on his feet pretty quickly

I’d keep Reid but change up recruiting pretty significantly

Why?

Reid is the one who gave Murphy a 2 year deal. Plus, he's the person who has decided to only have 2 ruckman on the list, with no development ruckman.

We have a whole heap of half back flankers, no developing ruckman, not many pure midfielder and the entire list in a complete shambles.

He hasn't shown any reason to keep him on.

Hamish, Justin and Matthew Nicks should all be shown the door.

 

[Bazz_27]

Agree , I reckon Reid has learnt on his feet pretty quickly

I’d keep Reid but change up recruiting pretty significantly

I'm happy to change up recruiting if we can improve it, outside of some bad 1st round selections (Jones, McHenry & MCAsey) we have otherwise been okay in drafting especially in recent years.

I would be interested to know who gets what say on draft night though and if that process is best practice, similarly feel the same with list management. Who is responsible for decisions on who to trade in/ out?

I ask the above as Pyke (Galluci) & Fagan (Gibbs) seems to have overstepped their mark? Or is that in their role, if it is it's still a bad decision & we don't seem to have had that repeated again (certainly they are two of the worst calls we have made in hindsight)

List management is a concern for me still, the points made on that are very valid and I agree with them but to me the lack of a small forward on our list is odd, or even any real player with forward craft outside of best 22 players. Also the lack of a genuine backup or development ruck, Strachan has played before and the same weaknesses were there. Again this could be a group decision.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That's not true.

The flaws in Curtin's game were pretty obvious early on, and they weren't as obvious playing against immature bodies. He's worked on them in the SANFL, though - more physically competitive one on one, doesn't just reach in but gets his body in, etc


It doesn't matter if he's been disappointing because we're not trading him.

Have you been more disappointed in Curtin or Nicks' treatment of Curtin?

I'm genuinely interested.

 

[LoBu]

Why?

Reid is the one who gave Murphy a 2 year deal. Plus, he's the person who has decided to only have 2 ruckman on the list, with no development ruckman.

We have a whole heap of half back flankers, no developing ruckman, not many pure midfielder and the entire list in a complete shambles.

He hasn't shown any reason to keep him on.

Hamish, Justin and Matthew Nicks should all be shown the door.

Murphy on the list is different to Murphy being picked and not performing.

 

[Redline]

I'm happy to change up recruiting if we can improve it, outside of some bad 1st round selections (Jones, McHenry & MCAsey) we have otherwise been okay in drafting especially in recent years.

I would be interested to know who gets what say on draft night though and if that process is best practice, similarly feel the same with list management. Who is responsible for decisions on who to trade in/ out?

I ask the above as Pyke (Galluci) & Fagan (Gibbs) seems to have overstepped their mark? Or is that in their role, if it is it's still a bad decision & we don't seem to have had that repeated again (certainly they are two of the worst calls we have made in hindsight)

List management is a concern for me still, the points made on that are very valid and I agree with them but to me the lack of a small forward on our list is odd, or even any real player with forward craft outside of best 22 players. Also the lack of a genuine backup or development ruck, Strachan has played before and the same weaknesses were there. Again this could be a group decision.

I think alot of people put their hand up when a selection goes well but quick to blame interference when it goes wrong.

I think draft night is almost entirely Hamish. Reid is there for strategy purposes like pick swaps but in terms of the name read out that's all Hamish.

Reid is obviously important but even during trade week he doesn't make the final decisions. He gets told (with his own input) what he needs to do and he finds the best way to do it.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Why?

Reid is the one who gave Murphy a 2 year deal. Plus, he's the person who has decided to only have 2 ruckman on the list, with no development ruckman.

We have a whole heap of half back flankers, no developing ruckman, not many pure midfielder and the entire list in a complete shambles.

He hasn't shown any reason to keep him on.

Hamish, Justin and Matthew Nicks should all be shown the door.

Reid doesn’t draft the players in , he’s not the new talent ID guy

Whether he got lucky or not ( he did ) he went and got Dawson and Rankine , keays and Hinge . There’s prob 4 of our best 5 or 6 players this year . Not sure how many other clubs have got their best players all from trade or delisted FA . That’s basically Reid’s role

It’s easy to get huffy and puffy on Reid but looking at what he’s done after a shaky first year or 2 , he’s actually gone ok

Hamish and his team didn’t produce the midfielders with his picks in the draft over many many years , not sure we’ve got too many half back flankers either ?

Agree the ruck , we need to get a developing one in but we’ve had lots of things we’ve needed to focus on

 

[crows dude]

Why?

Reid is the one who gave Murphy a 2 year deal. Plus, he's the person who has decided to only have 2 ruckman on the list, with no development ruckman.

We have a whole heap of half back flankers, no developing ruckman, not many pure midfielder and the entire list in a complete shambles.

He hasn't shown any reason to keep him on.

Hamish, Justin and Matthew Nicks should all be shown the door.

When we had more than two ruckman on the list we had

2017-2018
Jacobs
Hunter
O'Brien
Hunter had to play as a forward in the SANFL

2019
Recruited Strachan who with Hunter played forward in SANFL
jacobs number one ruck in SANFL
ROB in AFL.

Then in 2020 We had Strachan and Rob and been that way since.

I guess they think that 2017-18 days of 4 ruckman on the list and having them play mainly forward doesnt work.

Definately need a couple of young ruckman now though.

 

[1990crow]

When we had more than two ruckman on the list we had

2017-2018
Jacobs
Hunter
O'Brien
Hunter had to play as a forward in the SANFL

2019
Recruited Strachan who with Hunter played forward in SANFL
jacobs number one ruck in SANFL
ROB in AFL.

Then in 2020 We had Strachan and Rob and been that way since.

I guess they think that 2017-18 days of 4 ruckman on the list and having them play mainly forward doesnt work.

Definately need a couple of young ruckman now though.

3 is a better number imo.
1 lead AFL.
1 backup journeyman SANFL lead.
1 junior ruck who plays forward with stints in the ruck, ideally increasing time over they’re 2 to 3 year development before taking over and pushing the AFL ruck.

 

[Slime Roy]

I thought the word was $700-750k.

I'm pretty sure Eddie introducing him to his mate and fellow indigenous player Mitch Robinson and his former partner Emma was the catalyst that led to him heading back up north from what I heard.

Mitch Robinson isn't indigenous.

 

[AFC979810]

3 is a better number imo.
1 lead AFL.
1 backup journeyman SANFL lead.
1 junior ruck who plays forward with stints in the ruck, ideally increasing time over they’re 2 to 3 year development before taking over and pushing the AFL ruck.

Absolutely need 3 although that need is slightly mitigated by the mid season draft.

I think for 2025 we keep ROB/Strachan and invest a Rookie pick for a long term solution (as by all reports 2025 ruckman availability is a bit weak).

Both ROB/Strachan are out of contract at the end of 2025 so we have plenty of time to decide what to do with them both.

 

[1990crow]

Absolutely need 3 although that need is slightly mitigated by the mid season draft.

I think for 2025 we keep ROB/Strachan and invest a Rookie pick for a long term solution (as by all reports 2025 ruckman availability is a bit weak).

Both ROB/Strachan are out of contract at the end of 2025 so we have plenty of time to decide what to do with them both.

Yeah if we aren’t getting English there’s no one better than ROB available.
The trio proposal above allows for a young ruck to also be ready to take over when the senior AFL ruck either stagnates, declines or gets shown up as a liability as it has with ROB.

Surely there’s an American 207cm giant somewhere we could sign.

 

[AFC979810]

It's not a safe assumption at all. All indications are that he left for $$$, and all other reasons are a very distant second.

Yeah.... Thats all it was.

Not like his manager came out and publicly declared that Charlie Cameron "WOULD NEVER RE-SIGN WITH ADELAIDE" when he still had a full season left on his contract.

 

[AFC979810]

He reportedly left for 650k a year. Surely a figure the club would have been willing to match if they were prepared to promote him from the "sidekick" gig.

Yeah the stormtrooper got it way wrong on this. Cameron, Lever and McGovern all wanted the hell out. Its just easier to stomach thinking they were greedy and wanted out rather than the club was rotten.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm happy to change up recruiting if we can improve it, outside of some bad 1st round selections (Jones, McHenry & MCAsey) we have otherwise been okay in drafting especially in recent years.

I would be interested to know who gets what say on draft night though and if that process is best practice, similarly feel the same with list management. Who is responsible for decisions on who to trade in/ out?

I ask the above as Pyke (Galluci) & Fagan (Gibbs) seems to have overstepped their mark? Or is that in their role, if it is it's still a bad decision & we don't seem to have had that repeated again (certainly they are two of the worst calls we have made in hindsight)

List management is a concern for me still, the points made on that are very valid and I agree with them but to me the lack of a small forward on our list is odd, or even any real player with forward craft outside of best 22 players. Also the lack of a genuine backup or development ruck, Strachan has played before and the same weaknesses were there. Again this could be a group decision.

The list management is a concern re small forwards because Hamish drafted the wrong ones

You can’t go and get everything you need with trades in an off season , takes time

Also through trades we have keays and Rankine so don’t see how it’s Reid’s fault more than Hamish

 

[plugger59]

He wasn't earning anywhere near $650k.

I don't have many/any sources, but I did hear info on this at the time from people close to the Lions.

my recollection from media stories was he was coming off a 375k contract. no idea what crows offered but he went for 750k to lions which was still more than what we were offering for new contract.

 

[Redline]

In fairness to Reid there is a fair amount of luck with list management. Academy and father/sons can improve the list significantly.

Lots of credit is given to Graham Wright at Collingwood but he did get the Daicos brothers for less than what they were worth. Geelong, Sydney, Bulldogs, the list of clubs goes on. We haven't been that lucky.

Also he can't control where the team finishes. It helps if you get high draft picks.

 

[jimvic]

3 is a better number imo.
1 lead AFL.
1 backup journeyman SANFL lead.
1 junior ruck who plays forward with stints in the ruck, ideally increasing time over they’re 2 to 3 year development before taking over and pushing the AFL ruck.

spot on - we are much too exposed at the moment, and TT is too valuable to be playing in ruck if ROB goes down

 

[Bazz_27]

The list management is a concern re small forwards because Hamish drafted the wrong ones

You can’t go and get everything you need with trades in an off season , takes time

Also through trades we have keays and Rankine so don’t see how it’s Reid’s fault more than Hamish

Not absolving Hamish here but prior to this season we thought we were going to be contending for finals from this year on. We know what Ned brings (not much) so surely we weren't just hoping Rankine, rachele (both playing mid time was the initial plan wasn't it?) Keays and Murphy was all we needed?

What about the ruck? Is that Hamish's fault?

 

[Mutineer]

Mitch Robinson isn't indigenous.

My mistake Robinson's former partner and the mother of his children Emma definitely is.