List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

Should the AFC offer Taylor Walker a contract for 2025?

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Need to stay firm with GC for Luko - I can see us caving

Getting in

ANB - pick 25
Luko - F2
Cumming- FA



Move who we have to rookie list
Need to go into the draft with 3 list spots while still holding out F1 to trade on the night

4- O’Sullivan
Pick in teens for F1- Dodson
Welsh
 

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Kane McGoodwin said:
We can move players from the main list to rookie list though.

Smith... who really should be delisted.
Murphy.
Click to expand...
Sure, but first the player has to be delisted and contract paid out if still in contract, then he has to be redrafted in the rookie draft.
The Crows already did that with Hamill and Borlase. Hamil is likely to stay on the list.
Also, Keane will now have to be elevated to the main list due to his contract extension.

We won't have enough main list spots to do everything that we are looking at.
 
Viva la Mattner said:
Need to stay firm with GC for Luko - I can see us caving

Getting in

ANB - pick 25
Luko - F2
Cumming- FA



Move who we have to rookie list
Need to go into the draft with 3 list spots while still holding out F1 to trade on the night

4- O’Sullivan
Pick in teens for F1- Dodson
Welsh
Click to expand...
F1 to GC for Luko and a 3rd .
F2 for ANB. We took a F2 from Melbourne for McAdam, so.they can take a F2 for ANB.
Cummins FA

Pick 4 for Draper
Pick 25 Dodson.
3rd rounders match Welsh
 
Viva la Mattner said:
Like it
But no way Dodson lasts to 25
Click to expand...
I think he is in that 20-25 range. It all depends what teams need a ruck at that pick range. North took Goad last year, so won't be looking, and alot of teams don't believe in using high picks for rucks, and prefer to get them via trade.or rookie.
There a Vic kid who's name I have forgot who is a 200cm Ruck/forward that might suit a club who wants a ruck/forward other than just a plain ruck.
We could take 25 into the draft and if he is gone by our pick we can trade it out for a pick next year.
 
Cleric said:
Sure, but first the player has to be delisted and contract paid out if still in contract, then he has to be redrafted in the rookie draft.
The Crows already did that with Hamill and Borlase. Hamil is likely to stay on the list.
Also, Keane will now have to be elevated to the main list due to his contract extension.

We won't have enough main list spots to do everything that we are looking at.
Click to expand...
There's no need to promote Keane until the end of next year.

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Here’s my crack at our predicted offseason moves and list structure once it’s all said and done…

Note: We can have anywhere between 36 and 38 players on our senior list for 2025, and then the Cat A plus Cat B rookies can take us to a maximum of 44 players total.

***EDIT - the bowels of AFL list size rules appears as though it’s 36 senior plus 6 Cat A, or 37 Senior plus 5 Cat A, or 38 Senior plus 4 Cat A, so I will edit below accordingly.

Out:
Sloane (Senior list) - retired
Parnell (Rookie list) - delisted
Gollant (S) - delisted
McHenry (S) - delisted
Hamill (R) - delisted
Himmelberg (S) - leaves as FA
Keane (R)* - upgrade to senior list seemingly inevitable
Smith (S)* - downgraded to rookie list a la Mackay
Strachan (S)* - downgraded because he’s horrendous
Chris Burgess (S)* - pay the man out if he’s contracted. Delist him if he’s not. No re-rookieing. You’re gone. Bye.

In:
Pick 4 (S)
Keane (S) (upgraded from rookie list)
Lukosius (S) - via trade
Cumming (S) - via FA
ANB (S) - via trade
Smith (R) (Doing a David Mackay)
Strachan (R) (delisted and re-rookied)
Welsh (S) - via National Draft
One more national draft pick (S)



Senior list for 2025:
1) Chayce Jones
2) Ben Keays
3) Sam Berry
4) Lachie Murphy
5) Matt Crouch
6) Daniel Curtin
7) Riley Thilthorpe
8) Josh Rachele
9) Pick 4*
10) Luke Pedlar
11) Charlie Edwards
12) Jordan Dawson
13) Taylor Walker
14) Jake Soligo
15) Brayden Cook
16) Max Michalanney
17) Tyler Welsh*
18) Isaac Cumming*
19) Zac Taylor
20) Mitch Hinge
21) Jack Lukosius*
22) Oscar Ryan
23) Izak Rankine
24) Josh Worrell
25) Alex Neal-Bullen*
26) Harry Schoenberg
27) Luke Nankervis
28) Nick Murray
29) Rory Laird
30) Wayne Milera
31) Billy Dowling
32) Darcy Fogarty
33) Lachie Sholl
34) Hugh Bond
35) Jordon Butts
36) Reilly O’Brien
37) One more National Draft pick (ruck or lightning quick small forward)*
38) Mark Keane*


Cat A rookie list:
39) Brodie Smith*
40) Kieran Strachan*
41) James Borlase
42) Toby Murray

Cat B rookie list:
44) Karl Gallagher



Other possibilities:
1) Maybe Cumming doesn’t nominate us - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone else in the national or rookie draft OR we trade in someone like Rosas or a ruckman instead of signing Cumming and everything else stays the same

2) Maybe we don’t take anyone besides Welsh and Pick 4 at the national draft - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft.

3) Maybe we trade out a player to clear an extra spot. This seems extremely unlikely.

4) Maybe we downgrade Schoenberg or Bond to the rookie list instead of one of the others I’ve listed.

5) Maybe Lukosius doesn’t request to be traded to us, in which case see point 1 above and replace Cumming’s name with Lukosius.

6) Maybe we elect to go with only 37 players on the senior list, meaning that everything stays the same except our extra pick happens at the rookie draft instead of the national draft.

7) Maybe we don’t nominate Welsh as a father son in the National Draft, meaning that we get him as a rookie if he drifts through the ND without attracting a bid, thus meaning Strachan or Smith would remain on the senior list in Welsh’s place.

8) Maybe there’s some sneaky usage of the long-term injury list to manipulate an extra list spot if anyone still qualifies to be stashed on it (or if anyone does a knee between now and then).

9) Maybe we don’t pay out / delist Burgess, meaning we have no additional draft picks at the national or rookie drafts besides Pick 4 and Welsh.
 
Last edited:
If we get Cumming, you just know it’s gonna be this:

Luko, F2 for F1
ANB, F3, and maybe a late pick this year (Welsh points) for 25

If no Cumming, swap the F2 in the Luko deal for their pick 26

Good on us targeting and landing a bunch of players in that case, but to me the two trades are poor asset management
 
huludicidal said:
Here’s my crack at our predicted offseason moves and list structure once it’s all said and done…

Note: We can have anywhere between 36 and 38 players on our senior list for 2025, and then the Cat A plus Cat B rookies can take us to a maximum of 44 players total.

Out:
Sloane (Senior list) - retired
Parnell (Rookie list) - delisted
Gollant (S) - delisted
McHenry (S) - delisted
Hamill (R) - delisted
Himmelberg (S) - leaves as FA
Keane (R)* - upgrade to senior list seemingly inevitable
Smith (S)* - downgraded to rookie list a la Mackay
Strachan (S)* - downgraded because he’s horrendous
Chris Burgess (S)* - downgraded because nobody wants him and we need another senior list spot

In:
Pick 4 (S)
Keane (S) (upgraded from rookie list)
Lukosius (S) - via trade
Cumming (S) - via FA
ANB (S) - via trade
Smith (R) (Doing a David Mackay)
Strachan (R) (delisted and re-rookied)
Welsh (S) - via National Draft
One more national draft pick (S)
Burgess (R) (delisted and re-rookied)



Senior list for 2025:
1) Chayce Jones
2) Ben Keays
3) Sam Berry
4) Lachie Murphy
5) Matt Crouch
6) Daniel Curtin
7) Riley Thilthorpe
8) Josh Rachele
9) Pick 4*
10) Luke Pedlar
11) Charlie Edwards
12) Jordan Dawson
13) Taylor Walker
14) Jake Soligo
15) Brayden Cook
16) Max Michalanney
17) Tyler Welsh*
18) Isaac Cumming*
19) Zac Taylor
20) Mitch Hinge
21) Jack Lukosius*
22) Oscar Ryan
23) Izak Rankine
24) Josh Worrell
25) Alex Neal-Bullen*
26) Harry Schoenberg
27) Luke Nankervis
28) Nick Murray
29) Rory Laird
30) Wayne Milera
31) Billy Dowling
32) Darcy Fogarty
33) Lachie Sholl
34) Hugh Bond
35) Jordon Butts
36) Reilly O’Brien
37) One more National Draft pick (ruck or lightning quick small forward)*
38) Mark Keane*


Cat A rookie list:
39) Brodie Smith*
40) Kieran Strachan*
41) James Borlase
42) Toby Murray
43) Chris Burgess*

Cat B rookie list:
44) Karl Gallagher



Other possibilities:
1) Maybe Cumming doesn’t nominate us - means we retain Burgess on senior list and have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft OR we trade in someone like Rosas or a ruckman instead of signing Cumming and everything else stays the same

2) Maybe we don’t take anyone besides Welsh and Pick 4 at the national draft - means we retain Burgess on senior list and have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft.

3) Maybe we trade out a player to clear an extra spot. This seems extremely unlikely.

4) Maybe we downgrade Schoenberg or Bond to the rookie list instead of one of the others I’ve listed.

5) Maybe Lukosius doesn’t request to be traded to us, in which case see point 1 above and replace Cumming’s name with Lukosius.

6) Maybe we elect to go with only 37 players on the senior list, meaning that everything stays the same except our extra pick happens at the rookie draft instead of the national draft.

7) Maybe we don’t nominate Welsh as a father son in the National Draft, meaning that we get him as a rookie if he drifts through the ND without attracting a bid, thus meaning someone like Burgess would remain on the senior list in Welsh’s place.

8) Maybe one of the guys we’re potentially “re-rookieing” (ie Burgess) - we just cut ties with permanently and pay out instead of piss-farting around with horrendous depth players.

9) Maybe there’s some sneaky usage of the long-term injury list to manipulate an extra list spot if anyone still qualifies to be stashed on it (or if anyone does a knee between now and then).

10) Maybe Burgess isn’t actually contracted for 2025 (his situation is murky af) and he just becomes an easy delist, thus freeing up another list spot.
Click to expand...
We can only carry 42 senior listed and Cat A players, I believe
 
Danger in Texas said:
We can only carry 42 senior listed and Cat A players, I believe
Click to expand...
Yeah I think you might be right (although LTI lists and whatnot make this murky). All the more reason to ditch Burgess altogether if we can, or even pay out a guy like Schoenberg who just blatantly shouldn’t be playing AFL footy again.

Under normal circumstances I’d suggest paying out Strachan, but our list management in relation to rucks has been so horrendous that we actually need him for 2025 in case O’Brien cops a serious injury.

Just makes allowing Smith to hit his games played trigger even more baffling. He wasn’t even in my Round 1 side.
 
Should be paying Strachan out regardless and grabbing some other mature aged ruck. Zero risk and slightly more to gain.

In some ways, would be a good way to eat up cap space too to get over 95% usage.
 
DEPARTURES
Elliot Himmelberg - free agent, no compo
Rory Sloane
Chris Burgess
Lachlan Gollant
Ned McHenry
Will Hamill (R)
Patrick Parnell (R)

ROOKIE LIST "ARRIVALS"
Toby Murray
Brodie Smith

ARRIVALS
Future First and pick 38 for Jack Lukosius and pick 13
Pick 25 for Alex Neal Bullen and pick 38
Isaac Cumming - free agent

Draft picks 4, 13, Tyler Welsh.
 
Mostyn said:
DEPARTURES
Elliot Himmelberg - free agent, no compo
Rory Sloane
Chris Burgess
Lachlan Gollant
Ned McHenry
Will Hamill (R)
Patrick Parnell (R)

ROOKIE LIST "ARRIVALS"
Toby Murray
Brodie Smith

ARRIVALS
Future First and pick 38 for Jack Lukosius and pick 13
Pick 25 for Alex Neal Bullen and pick 38
Isaac Cumming - free agent

Draft picks 4, 13, Tyler Welsh.
Click to expand...
this all looks quite nice. doubt GC would do that trade but anyway.

the issue is our midfield will be getting worse next year not better. as laird and crouch fall off the precipice and pick 4, curtin, pedlar are still not ready to assist dawson, soligo, rankine. the year after the midfield might start to hum. I can't see berry, taylor, schoey in deep finals action.
 
huludicidal said:
Here’s my crack at our predicted offseason moves and list structure once it’s all said and done…

Note: We can have anywhere between 36 and 38 players on our senior list for 2025, and then the Cat A plus Cat B rookies can take us to a maximum of 44 players total.

***EDIT - the bowels of AFL list size rules appears as though it’s 36 senior plus 6 Cat A, or 37 Senior plus 5 Cat A, or 38 Senior plus 4 Cat A, so I will edit below accordingly.

Out:
Sloane (Senior list) - retired
Parnell (Rookie list) - delisted
Gollant (S) - delisted
McHenry (S) - delisted
Hamill (R) - delisted
Himmelberg (S) - leaves as FA
Keane (R)* - upgrade to senior list seemingly inevitable
Smith (S)* - downgraded to rookie list a la Mackay
Strachan (S)* - downgraded because he’s horrendous
Chris Burgess (S)* - pay the man out if he’s contracted. Delist him if he’s not. No re-rookieing. You’re gone. Bye.

In:
Pick 4 (S)
Keane (S) (upgraded from rookie list)
Lukosius (S) - via trade
Cumming (S) - via FA
ANB (S) - via trade
Smith (R) (Doing a David Mackay)
Strachan (R) (delisted and re-rookied)
Welsh (S) - via National Draft
One more national draft pick (S)



Senior list for 2025:
1) Chayce Jones
2) Ben Keays
3) Sam Berry
4) Lachie Murphy
5) Matt Crouch
6) Daniel Curtin
7) Riley Thilthorpe
8) Josh Rachele
9) Pick 4*
10) Luke Pedlar
11) Charlie Edwards
12) Jordan Dawson
13) Taylor Walker
14) Jake Soligo
15) Brayden Cook
16) Max Michalanney
17) Tyler Welsh*
18) Isaac Cumming*
19) Zac Taylor
20) Mitch Hinge
21) Jack Lukosius*
22) Oscar Ryan
23) Izak Rankine
24) Josh Worrell
25) Alex Neal-Bullen*
26) Harry Schoenberg
27) Luke Nankervis
28) Nick Murray
29) Rory Laird
30) Wayne Milera
31) Billy Dowling
32) Darcy Fogarty
33) Lachie Sholl
34) Hugh Bond
35) Jordon Butts
36) Reilly O’Brien
37) One more National Draft pick (ruck or lightning quick small forward)*
38) Mark Keane*


Cat A rookie list:
39) Brodie Smith*
40) Kieran Strachan*
41) James Borlase
42) Toby Murray

Cat B rookie list:
44) Karl Gallagher



Other possibilities:
1) Maybe Cumming doesn’t nominate us - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone else in the national or rookie draft OR we trade in someone like Rosas or a ruckman instead of signing Cumming and everything else stays the same

2) Maybe we don’t take anyone besides Welsh and Pick 4 at the national draft - means we retain Burgess on senior list OR have the option of taking someone in the rookie draft.

3) Maybe we trade out a player to clear an extra spot. This seems extremely unlikely.

4) Maybe we downgrade Schoenberg or Bond to the rookie list instead of one of the others I’ve listed.

5) Maybe Lukosius doesn’t request to be traded to us, in which case see point 1 above and replace Cumming’s name with Lukosius.

6) Maybe we elect to go with only 37 players on the senior list, meaning that everything stays the same except our extra pick happens at the rookie draft instead of the national draft.

7) Maybe we don’t nominate Welsh as a father son in the National Draft, meaning that we get him as a rookie if he drifts through the ND without attracting a bid, thus meaning Strachan or Smith would remain on the senior list in Welsh’s place.

8) Maybe there’s some sneaky usage of the long-term injury list to manipulate an extra list spot if anyone still qualifies to be stashed on it (or if anyone does a knee between now and then).

9) Maybe we don’t pay out / delist Burgess, meaning we have no additional draft picks at the national or rookie drafts besides Pick 4 and Welsh.
Click to expand...

Why is Keane's upgrade to the senior list "seemingly inevitable"? He's only been on the rookie list for 2 years, so there's no imperative to upgrade him until next year.

Also, we don’t currently have any players with long term injuries which will keep them out for the entire 2025 season, so we don’t have the option of putting anyone on the inactive list and replacing them via the PSSP. Fingers crossed we don’t get any such injuries during the off-season.

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List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

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