Preview 2024 Rd 17 Carlton vs GWS Saturday 6th July 7:30PM @ Engie Stadium

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …

AFL team news: Blues welcome back two

Tom De Koning and Matthew Cottrell have been named for Round 17.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[GoBlues!]

Suspect Owies will be sub

I think it’s risky having an out form player like Ollie and Cottrell returning from injury in the starting 22, with an in form forward as sub.

I’d prefer to have either Cottrell or Ollie as sub - neither as likely to hit the scoreboard as much as Owies imo.

 

[ESKIE]

You normally don't have endurance players as a sub, so if we go in unchanged, I suspect Owies or Fantasia as the sub

I don’t reckon owies..

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Not sure why?

Cotts plays either Ollies role or fantasia's role.

Makes more sense to have one of Cotts, Ollie or fantasia as the sub.

Ollie won’t be sub as he is named on the field.

Owies had 9 possessions and a goal last week.

Cottrell imo needs the run and they may sub him off like they did Cerra early into the last if all goes well.

Doesn’t make sense to return a player like Cottrell and leave him on the bench for most of the game.

Suspect they will reward Fantasia after his 4 goals last week.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I get that Kennedy might have been given the all clear and that sometimes you want to give a player every chance to get up, but I feel we're in a position where we could've easily rested Kennedy and kept Hewett in the side.
They're pretty close to like for like, despite Kennedy being able to play forward and take some ruck contests.
Just make the call.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm not as surprised as others on Kennedy being selected although I am surprised he got over his injury well enough not to be rested.

I think Kennedy is playing a forward mid-rotation and Hewett is more a FT mid. I'm not sure if Kennedy was a FT mid he would be preferred over Hewett.

Voss has added size to the defensive forward mix firstly in Williams and secondly over the last weeks in Kennedy who along with FOgarty, E Hollands are appearing in CBB as well - this has seen a big increase in body size and strength as well as skill spread between teh arcs and in forward fifty.

Cottrell is a (perhaps a surprise) - I see him playing the same role as Fantasia as a high half forward with more run.

What I've seen in terms of team development re starting 22 is

1. Forward mix is now MUCH scarier and more difficult for opposition to counter - witness the number of different goal kickers over the last few games and certainly much more convincing defensive forward fifty turnover and goals from turnover stats

2. More options in midfield rotations and matchups

3. more leg speed where it matters with Saad McGovern back in, Cincotta running with role, E Hollands in ripping form and Williams settling into a forward role

Much stronger team balance E Hollands has been improving with every game.

SO much for Voss is boring and lacks creativity- Carlton is currently #1 scoring team from turnovers and #1 team for pressure- no surprises there they go hand in hand- defense is the beginning of attack.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Hewett might be a late in for Kennedy

Thought this also- maybe even very late and depending on weather pitto in for Kennedy

 

[ESKIE]

Vossy sure is keeping the opposition guessing

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I get that Kennedy might have been given the all clear and that sometimes you want to give a player every chance to get up, but I feel we're in a position where we could've easily rested Kennedy and kept Hewett in the side.
They're pretty close to like for like, despite Kennedy being able to play forward and take some ruck contests.
Just make the call.

Think its clear that we see this as a very important game to win, so we are trying to field our absolute best as possible.

 

[Accidental genius]

Ollie won’t be sub as he is named on the field.

Owies had 9 possessions and a goal last week.

Cottrell imo needs the run and they may sub him off like they did Cerra early into the last if all goes well.

Doesn’t make sense to return a player like Cottrell and leave him on the bench for most of the game.

Suspect they will reward Fantasia after his 4 goals last week.

Yeah thats fair and its a bit hard to know who might come out but I'd hate to see Owies be the sub.

He has been good for a long time now - intelligent and a reliable performer.

Our f50 set up is working nicely and we will need it work well this week.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Ollie won’t be sub as he is named on the field.

Owies had 9 possessions and a goal last week.

Cottrell imo needs the run and they may sub him off like they did Cerra early into the last if all goes well.

Doesn’t make sense to return a player like Cottrell and leave him on the bench for most of the game.

Suspect they will reward Fantasia after his 4 goals last week.

Owies also had a couple of goal assists and he rarely goes quiet too many games in a row these days. Going to be a tough decision, but good position to be in I suppose...

 

[JJBagger]

What’s this narrative about Ollie being out of form? He gets low disposals because we use his wing offensively much less than the Acres one. But his defensive running has been just about the best in the team in the last month or so

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Even though it makes sense to play cotts as sub, I can't see for the balance of the side to have 2 small forwards on the bench in Owies and Fanta. One will be sub, in my humble opinion

Cotts is Fanta Fanta is Cots one of them will be sub and if O hollands holds on and no injuries one will probably be sub in finals

 

[Bluechip66]

Cotts is Fanta Fanta is Cots one of them will be sub and if O hollands holds on and no injuries one will probably be sub in finals

If Fanta is in our best we ain’t winning anything!

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I used to rank players based on talent and importance every year. It would be an interesting exercise to see what everyone comes up with.

Best combined with importance and structure will throw a few curveballs. This is my approximate order right now if all players were fit. This takes into account their current and past form, not just the recency factor. I've only listed players who have played an AFL game. You could throw a blanket over many of these groupings and switch them up or down half a dozen spots.

So yeah, it's quite conceivable that Hewett could be ranked 17 in someone's list.

1. Cripps
2. Curnow
3. Weitering
4. Walsh
5. De Koning
6. McKay
7. Saad
8. Docherty
9. Acres
10. McGovern
11. Cerra
12. Newman
13. E Hollands
14. Hewett
15. Kennedy
16. Pittonet
17. Williams
18. Kemp
19. Boyd
20. Silvagni
21. Martin
22. Cottrell
23. Cincotta
24. Cowan
25. Fogarty
26. Owies
27. O Hollands
28. Motlop
29. Marchbank
30. Cuningham
31. Fantasia
32. J Carroll
33. C Durdin
34. Young
35. Binns
36. S Durdin

If people start doing their own, we might have to break it off into another thread. This was just to take away the initial shock factor at your rating of Hewett.

Interesting exercise but kinda pointless no? Hewett doesn't play wing, full back etc
Only rating that really matters for Hewett would be mids and half forwards / half backs...

Mids
Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Kennedy
Hewett

Taggers
Cinc
Cott
Kennedy
Hewett

As a Half back
Saad
Newman
Boyd
Docherty
Cowan
Williams
Hewett

As a half forward
E Hollands
Martin
Williams
Owies
Cotts
Fantasia
Cinc
Hewett


What does he provide in those spots that the others don't do better....? And when one of your wingers is Acres and your flankers like Cowan lij can all rotate through stoppages then he's even less important off a bench.

Put it shortly I think he is rotational but only when Kennedy needs a rest or we are missing guys. he's just bland in secondary positions and doesn't win out in his primary.

Without doing a full on list on top of what ive already done I'd probably not have Hewett in the 22 most important players for Carlton at this stage.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

If Fanta is in our best we ain’t winning anything!

His last 3 games have been very good. seems to be coming back into form. Heavy pre season probably taxed him a bit since the break and bye he has freshened up seems to be running on top of the ground .. uses the ball well.. if he is not close to our best 22 in the position he is playing then we will definitely go through undefeated

 

[JustOneTime]

Ratings should be based on value to the team and position.

There is little value in individual ratings.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Interesting exercise but kinda pointless no? Hewett doesn't play wing, full back etc
Only rating that really matters for Hewett would be mids and half forwards / half backs...

Mids
Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Kennedy
Hewett

Taggers
Cinc
Cott
Kennedy
Hewett

As a Half back
Saad
Newman
Boyd
Docherty
Cowan
Williams
Hewett

As a half forward
E Hollands
Martin
Williams
Owies
Cotts
Fantasia
Cinc
Hewett


What does he provide in those spots that the others don't do better....? And when one of your wingers is Acres and your flankers like Cowan lij can all rotate through stoppages then he's even less important off a bench.

Put it shortly I think he is rotational but only when Kennedy needs a rest or we are missing guys. he's just bland in secondary positions and doesn't win out in his primary.

Without doing a full on list on top of what ive already done I'd probably not have Hewett in the 22 most important players for Carlton at this stage.

There was a query on the poster rating Hewett 16th or 17th in the side. I listed them out to show this was plausible.

I also said that structure has to come into play as well, so there was a point to it. I deleted the post that took issue with Hewett being ranked that low, and tried to show that he could easily be ranked that low, and potentially out of the side.

I agree that George is a midfielder and pretty much only a midfielder. I think that he is our 4th best onballer man for man. However, he doesn't bring any flexibility to our setup. He's easily best 22 talent wise. Balance wise, it has always been him vs Kennedy vs Cerra, and we usually can only choose two.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

My bad. This is Saturday.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ratings should be based on value to the team and position.

There is little value in individual ratings.

Right now, you'd have Cincotta as top 10 in our system. However, we don't necessarily have enough of a sample size to expect that to last for years to come. I try not to be reactive based on what things look like on this run we are on. Have to take everything into account, including consistency over time.

Weitering isn't always top 3 or 4, but his importance does necessitate having him there. Just an example.

Anyway, the point wasn't to derail this thread with a rough ratings system, which will never get full agreeance. The point was to point out that rating Hewett towards the back end of our best 23 is not foolish at all, given the strength we have. I understand why he is out of the side right now. I like him and feel safe with George in the side, but they don't all fit.

 

[JustOneTime]

Right now, you'd have Cincotta as top 10 in our system. However, we don't necessarily have enough of a sample size to expect that to last for years to come. I try not to be reactive based on what things look like on this run we are on. Have to take everything into account, including consistency over time.

Weitering isn't always top 3 or 4, but his importance does necessitate having him there. Just an example.

Anyway, the point wasn't to derail this thread with a rough ratings system, which will never get full agreeance. The point was to point out that rating Hewett towards the back end of our best 23 is not foolish at all, given the strength we have. I understand why he is out of the side right now. I like him and feel safe with George in the side, but they don't all fit.

He is probably out for some other reason than you have chosen. So it might be really silly.

He could be slightly sore. Could have a cold etc.

But for the exercise, i get the novelty. IMHUO, It's literally just Hewett vs Kennedy and Hewett gets the nod. It's Kennedy who is outside the 23 because he can't lock down the mid or mid/fwd position.

 

[Red_man2008]

What if Kennedy doesn’t want to give up his spot. It’s his to spot currently. Was having a blinder until injury. He would have been higher up the votes if he’d played the game out.

 

[reg_lower91]

Yeah thats fair and its a bit hard to know who might come out but I'd hate to see Owies be the sub.

He has been good for a long time now - intelligent and a reliable performer.

Our f50 set up is working nicely and we will need it work well this week.

Agreed. Fantasia should be the sub. Stiff after 4 goals but his long term form suggests that was an anomally. We'll get more out of Owies playing a full game.

 

[Funk]

Such a good sign if we’re leaving quality players out of the side. He hasn’t done much wrong at all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Re “leaving quality players out”

That’s the (happy) consequence of a reduction in our injury list.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

He is probably out for some other reason than you have chosen. So it might be really silly.

He could be slightly sore. Could have a cold etc.

But for the exercise, i get the novelty. IMHUO, It's literally just Hewett vs Kennedy and Hewett gets the nod. It's Kennedy who is outside the 23 because he can't lock down the mid or mid/fwd position.

I've said just that. I threw Cerra in too, because they are all slower paced inside mids. With the undroppable Cripps, that's 4 in the same side, so it's going to come down to versatility and form. Whoever loses form has to make way for the one left out, until someone else loses form. It's hard to drop Kennedy right now, because he is playing multiple roles on game day.

We can only go off what we are told. He was omitted. We know that our club would rather name a player as managed than omitted, based on their value. Marchbank was managed after one game back and hasn't been selected since.

 

[Thrawn]

My bad. This is Saturday.

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Apparently it's 10% chance of rain during gametime.