Rumour 2024 Rumours and Speculation Part 3

[Vader]

There just isn’t the payoff for all the effort.

You can go the cheap option and get someone that does the job … or you can just cherry pick a good option from a club on the way down.

Trying to develop a single person to be the lead ruck is not something that appears to have worked too often - and even when it has, for no massive benefit.

It’s not like other positions where you can start as a forward and end up a backman … midfielder to half back … wing to forward pocket. It’s ruck or nothing.

Are there many examples that show otherwise? Where a player drafted as a ruck has become an important player in another role? I can’t think of one.

I’m in the Grant Thomas camp on this (and the named leadership group crap).

This is not a new discussion:

AFL ruckmen: overrated players, or overrated position?

Aaron Sandilands might be the most overrated player in football. Or he might just play in the most overrated position.

www.theage.com.au

Yes, but if every club took the Adelaide option then there wouldn't be any cheap options, only undeveloped state league options.

The cheap option thing only works while other clubs continue to draft and develop them for us to steal. If everyone stops drafting/developing them, like Adelaide has, then this option will disappear.

On SM-A5360 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Slime Roy]

The stats on Draper require some perspective

a) Draper spent the whole PS running slow laps ....with zero ball work

b) Draper's first game was in R2 after the injury interrupted PS ....playing only 59% TOG

c) After R7 ...Draper missed the next 8 weeks

d) Draper rucked in tandem with Goldy for most of the season

You can pretty much throw the stats out the window .....the season was a wright-off

Not sure if it makes this better or worse!

 

[WheresGroomgone]

A common theme on this board [and probably others] is that a ruckman is not that important and grand finalist teams yada yada…

I think an average to good ruckman is not that important however, an excellent ruckman changes the whole team.

Our midfielders even when treacle slow would look and perform better if they were getting the ball exactly where they wanted it rather than entering a piñata celebration.

we either grab a developing/tried ruckman and go down the “break even” road but what if we actually targeted a young guy to become an outstanding ruckman that adds to the team all over the oval.

Watch Rehn in our glory days - stating a ruckman is not that important is bullocks when you have a player of that calibre.

 

[1990crow]

A common theme on this board [and probably others] is that a ruckman is not that important and grand finalist teams yada yada…

I think an average to good ruckman is not that important however, an excellent ruckman changes the whole team.

Our midfielders even when treacle slow would look and perform better if they were getting the ball exactly where they wanted it rather than entering a piñata celebration.

we either grab a developing/tried ruckman and go down the “break even” road but what if we actually targeted a young guy to become an outstanding ruckman that adds to the team all over the oval.

Watch Rehn in our glory days - stating a ruckman is not that important is bullocks when you have a player of that calibre.

I agree.
Sam Jacobs had a bigger impact on our better years from 2015 to 2017 than we probably realise.
There’s no necessarily a correlation between ruckman and winning flags, but it does help to maximise the talents in the midfield with a good one.

I’d argue Petracca and Oliver probably not as good without Gawn.

 

[Jarman3]

A common theme on this board [and probably others] is that a ruckman is not that important and grand finalist teams yada yada…

I think an average to good ruckman is not that important however, an excellent ruckman changes the whole team.

Our midfielders even when treacle slow would look and perform better if they were getting the ball exactly where they wanted it rather than entering a piñata celebration.

we either grab a developing/tried ruckman and go down the “break even” road but what if we actually targeted a young guy to become an outstanding ruckman that adds to the team all over the oval.

Watch Rehn in our glory days - stating a ruckman is not that important is bullocks when you have a player of that calibre.

Yeah if we can get a modern day equivalent of Shaun Rehn that would be great, but it needs to be on a reasonable contract. Even if we can get a player like that, I don't want to be signing a Brodie Grundy kind of contract.

 

[D Style]

I agree.
(Sam Jacobs) DANGERFIELD AND PEAK SLOANE had a bigger impact on our better years from 2015 to 2017 than we probably realise.
There’s no necessarily a correlation between ruckman and winning flags, but it does help to maximise the talents in the midfield with a good one.

I’d argue Petracca and Oliver probably not as good without Gawn.

Fixed this for you

 

[AFC979810]

Yes, but if every club took the Adelaide option then there wouldn't be any cheap options, only undeveloped state league options.

The cheap option thing only works while other clubs continue to draft and develop them for us to steal. If everyone stops drafting/developing them, like Adelaide has, then this option will disappear.

On SM-A5360 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lets cross that bridge IF and when it eventuates.

Until then what we have done is the correct way to manage it.

 

[1990crow]

Fixed this for you

Did we have Danger in 2016 and 2017?

 

[Mostyn]

A common theme on this board [and probably others] is that a ruckman is not that important and grand finalist teams yada yada…

I think an average to good ruckman is not that important however, an excellent ruckman changes the whole team.

Our midfielders even when treacle slow would look and perform better if they were getting the ball exactly where they wanted it rather than entering a piñata celebration.

we either grab a developing/tried ruckman and go down the “break even” road but what if we actually targeted a young guy to become an outstanding ruckman that adds to the team all over the oval.

Watch Rehn in our glory days - stating a ruckman is not that important is bullocks when you have a player of that calibre.

Rehn is decades ago, though.

 

[Mutineer]

Rehn is decades ago, though.

Max Gawn isn't neither are Nick Natanui, Dean Cox, Brodie Grundy or Aaron Sandilands who have all been dominant for long periods of time in their careers.

 

[Mostyn]

Max Gawn isn't neither are Nick Natanui, Dean Cox, Brodie Grundy or Aaron Sandilands who have all been dominant for long periods of time in their careers.

Grundy is a midfielder, Cox is all time, Sandilands never won a thing and Gawn has played at an under achieving Melbourne side - sorry, but they should have done a lot more than an a flag in a lockdown year.

Meanwhile, nearly every flag has been won by sides that actually prioritised the areas that DO win you permierships. And it ain't ruckmen.

 

[spenze]

We don't have a good ruckman, why aren't we playing finals and winning flags, isn't it a prerequisite?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

We don't have a good ruckman, why aren't we playing finals and winning flags, isn't it a prerequisite?

In fairness to ROB, he is very good at bounces. His kicking is atrocious and his around the ground marking was poor last season. If our ball getting and reading of ROB's hit outs at the bounces improves I am sure ROB will get more accolades.

 

[1990crow]

In fairness to ROB, he is very good at bounces. His kicking is atrocious and his around the ground marking was poor last season. If our ball getting and reading of ROB's hit outs at the bounces improves I am sure ROB will get more accolades.

I think you may be reading that wrong.
ROBs inability to palm the ball to his team mates, or do anything unpredictable to the opposition (or predictable to him team mates) is squarely the problem.

Not the other way around.

 

[Floating Doughnut]

We don't have a good ruckman, why aren't we playing finals and winning flags, isn't it a prerequisite?

Because we are so far ahead of the curve in picking bog average ruckman that we have gone full circle
and find ourselves at the rear again apparently.

The problem was we forgot to keep turning at least one over every couple of years and pick up a good one !

 

[Mostyn]

We don't have a good ruckman, why aren't we playing finals and winning flags, isn't it a prerequisite?

We don't have the elements you ACTUALLY need.

 

[D Style]

Did we have Danger in 2016 and 2017?

Had better. We had Dean Gore

 

[Mutineer]

Grundy is a midfielder, Cox is all time, Sandilands never won a thing and Gawn has played at an under achieving Melbourne side - sorry, but they should have done a lot more than an a flag in a lockdown year.

Meanwhile, nearly every flag has been won by sides that actually prioritised the areas that DO win you permierships. And it ain't ruckmen.

LOL LOL

Grundy a midfielder?
Now you've completely lost the plot.?

 

[GreyCrow]

There seems to be a concerted effort to downgrade the role of the ruck here

Wouldnt have anything to do with the club not having any great plans in place

 

[Mostyn]

LOL LOL

Grundy a midfielder?
Now you've completely lost the plot.?

Don't be ridiculous. This is an incredibly common view.

Grundy's ability to get around the ground, be a connector and act like an extra midfielder had always been his great strength, not hit outs.

Here's Steele Side bottom saying exactly this, and there's dozens of other times it's been said.

‘Like an extra mid’: What sets Collingwood ruckman Brodie Grundy apart

‘Like an extra mid’: What sets Magpie apart

foxsports.com.au

 

[Mostyn]

There seems to be a concerted effort to downgrade the role of the ruck here

Wouldnt have anything to do with the club not having any great plans in place

No, it would be that Darcy Fort has as many premiership medallions as Max Gawn.

 

[ams4crows]

No, it would be that Darcy Fort has as many premiership medallions as Max Gawn.

And Aaron Keating

 

[Vader]

How have Adelaide fallen short?

We have gone from Clarke / Biglands to Ben Hudson to Maric to Jacobs to ROB?

ROB is still a #1 ruck and will only be 29 when the season starts. The biggest problem I had with Rob was his inflated salary due to the club needing to sign him after our exodus and his B&F season.

ROB is pretty much the only development ruck we've had on our list for the last decade. We poached Jacobs from Carlton, who did the development work. It's the Sam Jacobs of the world who won't be available if everyone decides to act like leeches - the way Adelaide does.

 

[Vader]

Lets cross that bridge IF and when it eventuates.

Until then what we have done is the correct way to manage it.

What we've done works while we're the only ones doing it. If every other club follows our lead, we're completely ****ed.

Fortunately for us, some clubs are still happy to act as ruck talent farms. However, the number of rucks being drafted seems to be shrinking, so maybe our days of leeching will come to an enforced end (due to a lack of leechable talent) in the not too distant future.

 

[Vader]

I think you may be reading that wrong.
ROBs inability to palm the ball to his team mates, or do anything unpredictable to the opposition (or predictable to him team mates) is squarely the problem.

Not the other way around.

... except that the stats indicate your argument is completely inaccurate.

ROB's ruck work is not elite, but his figures stack up nicely against all but the very elite rucks. It's his around-the-ground play which is really worrying.