Rumour 2024 Rumours and Speculation (Rumours total 11, last 22nd July)

[huludicidal]

Haha...if Rachele tried his 'please don't touch me' routine at Sydney, Horse would probably punch him in the face and banish him to the bench of the reserves for the rest of the season.

I don’t disagree, I just think we’re ruining him. Like think back to his first handful of games at AFL level. Not only did he not look soft, but he looked almost impossible to tackle, agile, a one-touch player. Is he any of those things now? Got caught holding the ball 3 times in one game a few weeks ago while looking like he was running in quicksand. Double grabs almost everything. We are a confidence-sapping, soul-destroying club.

 

[Captain Furious]

I don’t disagree, I just think we’re ruining him. Like think back to his first handful of games at AFL level. Not only did he not look soft, but he looked almost impossible to tackle, agile, a one-touch player. Is he any of those things now? Got caught holding the ball 3 times in one game a few weeks ago while looking like he was running in quicksand. Double grabs almost everything. We are a confidence-sapping, soul-destroying club.

At some point a player needs to take responsibility for their own performance. Neither the coaches nor anyone at the club made Rachele pull out of contests and not know how to handball when under pressure.

Try telling Nick Larkey poor lil Josh has got it hard.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I wonder why people want Tex to play on?

Is it the last of the 2009/2010 players and the supporters don't want to feel old

Or is it that they think Tex will teach the new gen before he goes, the new Gen that fight over the scraps after Tex gets his?

Or do they think next year is our year?

The time has come, it sucks, it does but we may still be a few years before finals, Tex next year probably makes it one more year.

We're going to suck no matter what we do, so we may as well watch the great man churn out a couple of moments of decent football to get our rocks off

 

[NTRabbit]

You can only turn over so many players in one off season, and there's already a sizable enough queue ahead of Walker, with little pushing up behind him positionally, to force his exit.

Sloane and Himmelberg certainly gone, McHenry, Parnell, Gollant should go too, serious question marks over Sholl, Berry, Hamill, and that's before getting to players still contracted who might demand a trade or be put on the table.

If the club is struggling to free up compulsory list spots come end of year to the point that they're baulking at offering Walker a contract, then they are once again trying to retain far too many players who need to be moved on.

 

[Pea Nut]

Sounds like there isn’t enough clubs keen on the national reserves comp yet for the AFL to make it happen anytime soon

I think the non-affiliated clubs still in the VFL will be having significant influence as well. There's some poweful clubs with significant money and assets behind them in that list.

 

[StickerMan]

Focusing on the performances of our key forwards this year is just doing it all wrong IMO. The midfield, and those rotating through the midfield, is the problem, every football expert in the country knows this and they’ve all talked about it pretty much non-stop all year.

Charlie Curnow would struggle to get near it being fed by the likes of Laird, Crouch and Berry. Those inside types feeding it out to Chayce on a wing, and having the likes of Murphy, Keays and McHenry as high half forwards to pump it inside 50 is embarrassing.

Rachele is clearly not being utilised correctly at present, but playing him as a full time mid is not even close to being the answer. To put it bluntly, Josh Rachele is never going to be a star in a team with a shit midfield. Put him at half forward for Sydney or Carlton and he’d probably make the All-Australian team in 2025.

Sholl has racked up a lot of possessions on the outside lately. No speed, no kicking penetration, no ability to compete in the air, no tackling ability, very little evasive ability or agility = this is not a long term answer. Depth only or a trade chip if we’re being serious.

Dowling, Taylor and Edwards all need to be trialled at senior level and developed (lol, development), but none appear to be the messiah. Balance of probability suggests that one of those 3 completely fails, one becomes an average AFL player who “might” play 100 games, and one becomes a “good” player who approaches 150-200 games.

Pedlar is clearly going to get more senior games after the bye, but he’s a super low production pinch hitter at best, and honestly, his kicking is just horrendous. Combine that with a rich injury history that dates back to his childhood days, and the chances of Pedlar reaching 150 games for us, or ever playing as a full-time mid, are slim to none.

Sure, Dawson and Soligo are genuinely good players. Rankine is really good too. They’re not super high production guys YET though. The best mids in the comp are the guys with the ability to hit targets with aggressive and penetrating kicks, AND the ability to rack up 30 possession games regularly. Rankine (still inexperienced as a mid and struggles to reach 20 touches, let alone 30) and Soligo (avg 22.4) aren’t there yet, and Dawson (avg 24.9) is not a regular 30 touch guy either. These 3 all have scope to improve pretty dramatically as they’re very inexperienced at AFL level in their respective roles.

Laird can’t hit the side of a house by foot, but the coaches are probably too scared to drop him because now that Crouch is injured, nobody else can actually get the ball enough for us to compete as a team. What they don’t seem to appreciate is that a lot of Laird’s touches not only miss targets, but he’s taking completely the wrong option. One thing that isn’t talked about enough with Laird is his absolutely terrible decision making BY HAND. This is why Crouch is still an important player - he’s a great handballer, and makes very good decisions WITH his handballs too. Laird’s handballing is at least 50% utter nonsense.

Make no mistake, this is currently the worst midfield in the AFL, bar none. I’ve said it before, but the last time we actually spent a first round pick on someone who turned out to be an AFL standard midfielder was Patrick Dangerfield, 17 years ago. I’m not talking about superstars, I’m just talking about drafting guys in the first round who actually ended up getting regular AFL games, as actual midfielders.

That level of ineptitude in either / both of drafting and development will fcuk a list right up.

What percentage of the problem is the drafting and what percentage is the development? Nobody really knows because there are 0 examples of us drafting mids in the first round who failed as mids here, and then went to another club and succeeded.

The problem is clearly both of those things though. The entire list is currently being held together by the following:

1) Trade acquisition Dawson, who started playing inside mid out of sheer desperation. Let’s face it, he was brought to the club as a utility, and the first two options were to play him at half back or on a wing. The inside mid stuff has evolved from having a terrible list around him.

2) Trade acquisition Rankine, who has only played a handful of games with a highish percentage of game time in the midfield, but that handful of games has shown us that he’s probably the future in there. Let’s face it, he was brought to the club as a forward who could have spurts through the midfield. Not the other way around. Not even 50/50.

3) 2nd round pick Soligo. Just imagine if he went to Richmond a few picks before us, as was heavily rumoured. May have saved Hamish’s job. Gotta give credit here though, it’s an absolutely wonderful pick at 36.

4) Father-son Michalanney. Trust Sydney, the best recruiters in the land, to be the one club who recognised Max as worthy of first round selection. This midfield stuff in the last fortnight though - is this ANOTHER example of desperation due to incompetent list management (bear in mind that Laird’s move from defence to the midfield a few years back is also an example of this)? Whats going to happen to our ability to contain small forwards if Max is playing significant midfield minutes? Never fear, 2023 delistee Will Hamill is the future back there now is he?

5) 2nd round pick Worrell - the 5th name here really shouldn’t be a third tall in defence. But it is. Love Worrell, hope he can get a good run at it injury-wise once his arm is healed.

6) mature age rookie out of the wilderness Nick Murray - love Muz, but a mature age rookie beefcake defender who is one game into a comeback from an ACL tear shouldn’t be the 6th name here

7) pre-season draftee (ie overlooked in national draft) Nankervis. What’s he played, like 12-15 games now? Why is this suddenly a top 10 player on our list? Not a good sign.

8) Rachele, who is being tortured in a role he clearly hates and isn’t developing in to the standard expected of a pick 6 who kicked 5 goals on debut (again, imagine being a forward playing in front of the mess we’ve made of the midfield though)

9) Thilthorpe, who can’t get on the park

10) Fogarty, who would probably be leading the Coleman if he played for Sydney or Essendon.


The lack of literally anyone on the entire list who has a strong history through junior footy as a classy, high production, highly ranked GENUINE midfielder (not someone who “could maybe transition to the midfield”, which we are obsessed with), is absolutely staggering, and bordering on negligent.

Chayce Jones is the closest thing we have to this, and if you think he’s an AFL-standard midfielder, I can’t help you.


Oh right, it’s the rumours thread. Um, here’s a rumour: Laird to North Melbourne as a mentor. Source: hope.

 

[Crows I Am]

Focusing on the performances of our key forwards this year is just doing it all wrong IMO. The midfield, and those rotating through the midfield, is the problem, every football expert in the country knows this and they’ve all talked about it pretty much non-stop all year.

Charlie Curnow would struggle to get near it being fed by the likes of Laird, Crouch and Berry. Those inside types feeding it out to Chayce on a wing, and having the likes of Murphy, Keays and McHenry as high half forwards to pump it inside 50 is embarrassing.

Rachele is clearly not being utilised correctly at present, but playing him as a full time mid is not even close to being the answer. To put it bluntly, Josh Rachele is never going to be a star in a team with a shit midfield. Put him at half forward for Sydney or Carlton and he’d probably make the All-Australian team in 2025.

Sholl has racked up a lot of possessions on the outside lately. No speed, no kicking penetration, no ability to compete in the air, no tackling ability, very little evasive ability or agility = this is not a long term answer. Depth only or a trade chip if we’re being serious.

Dowling, Taylor and Edwards all need to be trialled at senior level and developed (lol, development), but none appear to be the messiah. Balance of probability suggests that one of those 3 completely fails, one becomes an average AFL player who “might” play 100 games, and one becomes a “good” player who approaches 150-200 games.

Pedlar is clearly going to get more senior games after the bye, but he’s a super low production pinch hitter at best, and honestly, his kicking is just horrendous. Combine that with a rich injury history that dates back to his childhood days, and the chances of Pedlar reaching 150 games for us, or ever playing as a full-time mid, are slim to none.

Sure, Dawson and Soligo are genuinely good players. Rankine is really good too. They’re not super high production guys YET though. The best mids in the comp are the guys with the ability to hit targets with aggressive and penetrating kicks, AND the ability to rack up 30 possession games regularly. Rankine (still inexperienced as a mid and struggles to reach 20 touches, let alone 30) and Soligo (avg 22.4) aren’t there yet, and Dawson (avg 24.9) is not a regular 30 touch guy either. These 3 all have scope to improve pretty dramatically as they’re very inexperienced at AFL level in their respective roles.

Laird can’t hit the side of a house by foot, but the coaches are probably too scared to drop him because now that Crouch is injured, nobody else can actually get the ball enough for us to compete as a team. What they don’t seem to appreciate is that a lot of Laird’s touches not only miss targets, but he’s taking completely the wrong option. One thing that isn’t talked about enough with Laird is his absolutely terrible decision making BY HAND. This is why Crouch is still an important player - he’s a great handballer, and makes very good decisions WITH his handballs too. Laird’s handballing is at least 50% utter nonsense.

Make no mistake, this is currently the worst midfield in the AFL, bar none. I’ve said it before, but the last time we actually spent a first round pick on someone who turned out to be an AFL standard midfielder was Patrick Dangerfield, 17 years ago. I’m not talking about superstars, I’m just talking about drafting guys in the first round who actually ended up getting regular AFL games, as actual midfielders.

That level of ineptitude in either / both of drafting and development will fcuk a list right up.

What percentage of the problem is the drafting and what percentage is the development? Nobody really knows because there are 0 examples of us drafting mids in the first round who failed as mids here, and then went to another club and succeeded.

The problem is clearly both of those things though. The entire list is currently being held together by the following:

1) Trade acquisition Dawson, who started playing inside mid out of sheer desperation. Let’s face it, he was brought to the club as a utility, and the first two options were to play him at half back or on a wing. The inside mid stuff has evolved from having a terrible list around him.

2) Trade acquisition Rankine, who has only played a handful of games with a highish percentage of game time in the midfield, but that handful of games has shown us that he’s probably the future in there. Let’s face it, he was brought to the club as a forward who could have spurts through the midfield. Not the other way around. Not even 50/50.

3) 2nd round pick Soligo. Just imagine if he went to Richmond a few picks before us, as was heavily rumoured. May have saved Hamish’s job. Gotta give credit here though, it’s an absolutely wonderful pick at 36.

4) Father-son Michalanney. Trust Sydney, the best recruiters in the land, to be the one club who recognised Max as worthy of first round selection. This midfield stuff in the last fortnight though - is this ANOTHER example of desperation due to incompetent list management (bear in mind that Laird’s move from defence to the midfield a few years back is also an example of this)? Whats going to happen to our ability to contain small forwards if Max is playing significant midfield minutes? Never fear, 2023 delistee Will Hamill is the future back there now is he?

5) 2nd round pick Worrell - the 5th name here really shouldn’t be a third tall in defence. But it is. Love Worrell, hope he can get a good run at it injury-wise once his arm is healed.

6) mature age rookie out of the wilderness Nick Murray - love Muz, but a mature age rookie beefcake defender who is one game into a comeback from an ACL tear shouldn’t be the 6th name here

7) pre-season draftee (ie overlooked in national draft) Nankervis. What’s he played, like 12-15 games now? Why is this suddenly a top 10 player on our list? Not a good sign.

8) Rachele, who is being tortured in a role he clearly hates and isn’t developing in to the standard expected of a pick 6 who kicked 5 goals on debut (again, imagine being a forward playing in front of the mess we’ve made of the midfield though)

9) Thilthorpe, who can’t get on the park

10) Fogarty, who would probably be leading the Coleman if he played for Sydney or Essendon.


The lack of literally anyone on the entire list who has a strong history through junior footy as a classy, high production, highly ranked GENUINE midfielder (not someone who “could maybe transition to the midfield”, which we are obsessed with), is absolutely staggering, and bordering on negligent.

Chayce Jones is the closest thing we have to this, and if you think he’s an AFL-standard midfielder, I can’t help you.


Oh right, it’s the rumours thread. Um, here’s a rumour: Laird to North Melbourne as a mentor. Source: hope.

Great summary. You should send this to Tim Silvers and it can be included in his mid season 'review'. Sums up why we are in the position we are in.

Add the fact that we have totally ignored bringing any rucks into our squad for so long and it shows we need a change in our drafting team/strategy.

 

[ABAB]

At some point a player needs to take responsibility for their own performance. Neither the coaches nor anyone at the club made Rachele pull out of contests and not know how to handball when under pressure.

Try telling Nick Larkey poor lil Josh has got it hard.

I see you still haven't watched the replays of the first 8 weeks of last season........

 

[Captain Furious]

I see you still haven't watched the replays of the first 8 weeks of last season........

I'm still confused by what you're trying to prove with this repetitive line. That he played well during an 8 week stretch in a different season somehow forgives him being soft?

 

[ABAB]

I'm still confused by what you're trying to prove with this repetitive line. That he played well during an 8 week stretch in a different season somehow forgives him being soft?

Because he wasn't soft playing in the midfield.

 

[Jirkago75]

The SANFL is a good competition with a decent standard of football.

However it is not compatible with what we want or need.

(A) They hate us. Even more than Port (if that's possible). I mean it's almost unhinged how much they despise us.
(B) They play under different rules. This is a definite issue for 1st year players, who have to adapt.
(C) They play on (mostly) smaller grounds where the Battersby types dominate. Again not good for our 1st/2nd year players.
(D) If we play in the VFL, our Victorian draftees get more of a chance to connect with their families.

Remaining in the SANFL is a good (financial) result for the SANFL but terrible for us and our player development.

Because you made rules for us to only have average to poor players as top ups, it’s hindering our development. Funny thing is if we do have a national reserve comp, we Will take a lot of the sanfl better ply and make it weaker. The sanfl only see the crows as a bank account that keeps putting in money, they have been difficult for a long time and it will bite them in the ass sooner or later.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Doctor B]

Haha...if Rachele tried his 'please don't touch me' routine at Sydney, Horse would probably punch him in the face and banish him to the bench of the reserves for the rest of the season.

I thought it was interesting after they played us Amartey was interviewed in the rooms.
He said he loves playing for Horse, he coaches you to play to your strengths and gives you confidence.

Absolute opposite to Crows development.
Amartey would probably be playing as a defender in the SANFL to learn leading patterns

 

[Captain Furious]

Because he wasn't soft playing in the midfield.

Right right, so let's take the guy who's avoiding physical contact, regularly getting caught in possession, getting lost in packs and put him...in the midfield?

Look, we can all tell there's something not right with him and we've all seen him play a lot better. He looks like he doesn't want to be out there right now and that's not a good thing for the kid himself, let alone the rest of the club. Whatever it is - and it's most likely none of our business - I hope he can sort it out because unfortunately there's nowhere to hide in AFL football.

And if you want to run some lines that it's all because the big bad coaches won't play him in the midfield, or it's Roo's fault or the bloody ghost of Robert Shaw is responsible, then ffs, spare me.

 

[ABAB]

Right right, so let's take the guy who's avoiding physical contact, regularly getting caught in possession, getting lost in packs and put him...in the midfield?

Look, we can all tell there's something not right with him and we've all seen him play a lot better. He looks like he doesn't want to be out there right now and that's not a good thing for the kid himself, let alone the rest of the club. Whatever it is - and it's most likely none of our business - I hope he can sort it out because unfortunately there's nowhere to hide in AFL football.

And if you want to run some lines that it's all because the big bad coaches won't play him in the midfield, or it's Roo's fault or the bloody ghost of Robert Shaw is responsible, then ffs, spare me.

That's why I initially said to watch the replay and tell me he can't play midfield. Are you all there????

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I thought it was interesting after they played us Amartey was interviewed in the rooms.
He said he loves playing for Horse, he coaches you to play to your strengths and gives you confidence.

Absolute opposite to Crows development.
Amartey would probably be playing as a defender in the SANFL to learn leading patterns

I thought our players were saying the same thing 2-3 years ago that the philosophy was to play to your strength.

Might have been a quote from Pedlar?

What has happened to that philosophy?

 

[Crows I Am]

Right right, so let's take the guy who's avoiding physical contact, regularly getting caught in possession, getting lost in packs and put him...in the midfield?

Look, we can all tell there's something not right with him and we've all seen him play a lot better. He looks like he doesn't want to be out there right now and that's not a good thing for the kid himself, let alone the rest of the club. Whatever it is - and it's most likely none of our business - I hope he can sort it out because unfortunately there's nowhere to hide in AFL football.

And if you want to run some lines that it's all because the big bad coaches won't play him in the midfield, or it's Roo's fault or the bloody ghost of Robert Shaw is responsible, then ffs, spare me.

Rachele took a great contested mark against the Swans running back into a pack and then kicked a really nice goal. You can see he is trying to fix the issues he had early this year where he didn't go 100% at the contest.
There was a passage of play highlighted right at the end of the game where he didnt go hard which didn't look great but there was less than a minute left in the game and it was well and truly over.

He is a confidence player who would feed from us playing well and is suited to a quick attacking game style. Our slow defensive game plan has definitely hindered his natural instincts and he has struggled at times to get involved. He is still managing to contribute though and his numbers are not that bad for a 3rd year medium forward. As you said he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself but I'm sure he is not the only one atm. It's never fun when you aren't winning games.

 

[Captain Furious]

That's why I initially said to watch the replay and tell me he can't play midfield. Are you all there???

Feel like we're having two very different conversations.

 

[maxlilly]

But who mate? Assuming EH goes - we will literally have TT (unknown post injury), Welsh (raw draftee), Burgess, and Gollant? T Murray?..... Bueller?

Give me names.

Curtin is our man.
If only our coaches could develop and give him a go up forward.
A really talented kid that can fill that space with time

 

[ABAB]

Feel like we're having two very different conversations.

Aren't you saying he is too "soft" to play midfield so I initially asked you to watch the replays and tell me he can't play midfield??? I don't think you know he already played full midfield very successful last year.

 

[GrommoT]

Laird can’t hit the side of a house by foot, but the coaches are probably ...
...
Oh right, it’s the rumours thread. Um, here’s a rumour: Laird to North Melbourne as a mentor. Source: hope.

But roofs though, on the other hand...

 

[Captain Furious]

Rachele took a great contested mark against the Swans running back into a pack and then kicked a really nice goal. You can see he is trying to fix the issues he had early this year where he didn't go 100% at the contest.
There was a passage of play highlighted right at the end of the game where he didnt go hard which didn't look great but there was less than a minute left in the game and it was well and truly over.

He is a confidence player who would feed from us playing well and is suited to a quick attacking game style. Our slow defensive game plan has definitely hindered his natural instincts and he has struggled at times to get involved. He is still managing to contribute though and his numbers are not that bad for a 3rd year medium forward. As you said he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself but I'm sure he is not the only one atm. It's never fun when you aren't winning games.

Unfortunately it's as much about perception for him now; when commentators are starting to point his good efforts - like there's a good boy, having a go - then things are obviously not great.

Other signs this season, like looking for the cheap possession, not hitting contests hard, seeming to freeze when he gets the ball in a pack - indicate maybe it's not game plan (although I definitely agree he's a confidence player and would benefit from a faster style) and that he doesn't really want to be out there playing footy for some reason.

 

[Mostyn]

Right right, so let's take the guy who's avoiding physical contact, regularly getting caught in possession, getting lost in packs and put him...in the midfield?

Look, we can all tell there's something not right with him and we've all seen him play a lot better. He looks like he doesn't want to be out there right now and that's not a good thing for the kid himself, let alone the rest of the club. Whatever it is - and it's most likely none of our business - I hope he can sort it out because unfortunately there's nowhere to hide in AFL football.

And if you want to run some lines that it's all because the big bad coaches won't play him in the midfield, or it's Roo's fault or the bloody ghost of Robert Shaw is responsible, then ffs, spare me.

He's not avoiding physical contact.

He had one really bad moment where he heard footsteps.

The dropped mark was just that, and the incident Cornes brought up last weekend was nothing to do with not wanting contact.

Calling players cowards - which is really what this is - is really rough.

 

[Captain Furious]

Aren't you saying he is too "soft" to play midfield so I initially asked you to watch the replays and tell me he can't play midfield??? I don't think you know he already played full midfield very successful last year.

Right now he's not in a good place with his game and I wouldn't be playing him mid.

I watch every game, I know he played midfield early last year and also pinch hit throughout the season. He was ok, had a couple of good games but very successful I think is a stretch. In the best players maybe twice, no coaches votes. Maybe they saw some things that made them prefer others. Maybe it was his defensive efforts, or just as likely he was playing as a mid who drifted forward - which feels like his natural place in the game. But of those guys who play that kind of game, none of them played full time mid in their early days. Ablett didn't go full time in the midfield until his 5th season.

His reluctance to engage strongly with the game this season I feel is a totally different and likely more personal issue. To say it's because he's not playing in the midfield I think is too simplistic.

 

[Crows I Am]

Unfortunately it's as much about perception for him now; when commentators are starting to point his good efforts - like there's a good boy, having a go - then things are obviously not great.

Other signs this season, like looking for the cheap possession, not hitting contests hard, seeming to freeze when he gets the ball in a pack - indicate maybe it's not game plan (although I definitely agree he's a confidence player and would benefit from a faster style) and that he doesn't really want to be out there playing footy for some reason.

He is currently 4th for score involvements, 1st for goal assists and 3rd for total goals. Not bad for some who is not playing well.

I feel it's the opposite, his good pieces of play don't get highlighted and people are only focusing on the couple of bad things he does. This would not be helping with his confidence and overall demeanour out there.

 

[Captain Furious]

He is currently 4th for score involvements, 1st for goal assists and 3rd for total goals. Not bad for some who is not playing well.

I feel it's the opposite, his good pieces of play don't get highlighted and people are only focusing on the couple of bad things he does. This would not be helping with his confidence and overall demeanour out there.


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I mean, he plays in the forward line…although I think everyone was hoping for more than 17 goals and 12 goal assists from 14 games.

But that’s not really the point.