List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread - Part 3

[giantroo]

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Picks

 

[Supa_Nova]

Pick 25 for Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

based on these drafts seems unders...

For reference the CCJ pick was used be GWS eventually for Max Gruzewski which stings a bit. But he can't even get a game, and could end up with us in the next couple of years anyway.

Max Holmes the pick of the bunch and then not bloody much else, and Holmes was the covid draft!

Overs? Unders? Who cares. He is a sensational pick-up and at the least means fisher and Stephens aren't walk up starts now. Pressure is coming. Improvement needs to come next.

 

[JUST NORTH]

im more than happy to take 2 to the draft and just go 2,62 and upgrade a rookie

do not want to use our f1 at all (save that top 10 pick for next year)

for mine its split 2 as the only thing im considering

i would be surprised if we do not use any of our future pics on the night,from the Q and A the recruiting team had i get the feeling Thursfield has a few targets in mind

 

[ferball]

There is if we get 12 months down the road and change again.

How many times in the last 5 years have we changed what we are doing? How many times in the last 9?

I don't want to relitigate the litany of failures that have brought us here, but almost constantly moving the goal posts has created some of the problems we have.

We haven't really changed what we are doing under Clarkson. Even with this trade period it follows his M.O. of getting older blokes who know what it takes to win a flag to help out. The players we got assist what we are doing. Parker helps out in terms of leadership and experience and onfield composure, definite upgrade on Shiels. Daniel can use the ball well and makes good decisions - he will open up play for us and the plan is to lower the number of turnovers we make so he should be good for that. And we break down across the forward line in terms of use, marking and pressure. Darling potentially helps with all of those issues.

Darling, Kos and Payne can all help with pressure on the forward line. Darling and Teakle should theoretically improve our forward line marking and structure, especially after an actual pre-season working together and we may have a young tall to add to that. We will still get some young talent in the door.

We say we want to work on the game plan we started the year with. I thought even post bye we were playing very similar footy, just being more intelligent about when we stepped up the tempo. I think these trades assist that process. They obviously fit what we are trying to do and assist in strengthening where our game breaks down.

 

[perplexed]

I don’t see stevens getting drafted by anyone, he’s average and it’s a stronger draft

Which will mean he will be fs eligible again next year so we can decide then if we feel like using a rookie spot after assessing a full vfl year

Not sure why you keep talking down Stevens, he has been very promising and definitely worth a rookie spot. He is an excellent runner and has better disposal than just about everyone on our list. He isn't a high disposal player, but they all count. Here is a link to the last round of the CTL. His last quarter is a big part of why Geelong gets over the line.

2024 Coates Talent League Boys Match Replays

AFL On Demand. All the latest videos

www.afl.com.au

 

[King Corey]

ferball read my mind in a post earlier this morning - our F2 is the commodity that might get us draft depth this year. Not our F1.

We either keep #2 or split to 2-3 Round 1 / Top 20 picks. Both scenarios can work there.

But after that, with this draft seemingly a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" type, the price of a F1 to saturate the 1st round seems a poor pay off.

What we want is some hits in the 20-50 region. That's where our F2 could be used.

Richmond 23 + F3.

Port 29 + 50.

St K 32 + 47.

We take a 2025 pick slide hit but at a lower impact than doing it with a potential top 5 pick.

 

[Shinboner1]

Would love for us to trade 2 and then take both Whitlock bros.
2 KPP players, one at either end for the next 10+ years? Mate we'd be cooking!

 

[The Nostradamus]

i would be surprised if we do not use any of our future pics on the night,from the Q and A the recruiting team had i get the feeling Thursfield has a few targets in mind

I dont mind using a future 2nd if we dont end up splitting 2

but our f1 should not be touched

in the end i expect us to split pick 2 and not worry about futures tho

 

[ferball]

B: Archer, Comben, Corr
HB: Daniel, Logue, Goater
C: McKercher, Parker, Scott
HF: Durrsma, Darling, Sheezel
F: Curtis, Larkey, Zurhaar
Foll: Xerri, Wardlaw, LDU
Int: Simpkin, Tucker, Powell, Fisher
Sub: Stephenson

Defensive Depth: Hardeman, Mcdonald, K.Dawson, W.Dawson, Bergman, George

Midfield Depth: Stephens, Phillips, Lazzaro

Forward Depth: Ford, Maley, Payne, Konstanty, Teakle, Pink, RJH.

Ruck Depth: CCJ & Goad

It's quite unbelievable that despite all the drafting of midfielders over the previous 4/5 drafts that we still have absolutely no depth in that part of the ground.

These are the last five drafts:

2019 - Mahony, Perez, Comben. No mids.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Lazzarro, Spicer, Ford. Three mids.
2021 - JHF, Goatboy, Curtis, Bergman, Archer. One mid, since gone.
2022 - Sheeze, Warlord, George, Harvey. One mid, two if you count Sheezel, who you have on the forward line in your team list.
2023 - McKercher, Duursma, Hardeman, Goad and Dawson. One mid.

It averages out to one per draft plus Sheezel and we only had LDU, Jy as a forward/mid available and in that time we've let Cunners, Higgo, Jed, Froggy, TT and JZ go as well as Shiels and Greenwood. Its a myth that we drafted heaps of them, all we've really done is replace the ones we've lost. Just barely. Losing TT really changes the equation too.

In that time we've drafted nearly as many non KPP forwards and defenders as mids, more in total, nearly twice as many.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

ferball read my mind in a post earlier this morning - our F2 is the commodity that might get us draft depth this year. Not our F1.

We either keep #2 or split to 2-3 Round 1 / Top 20 picks. Both scenarios can work there.

But after that, with this draft seemingly a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" type, the price of a F1 to saturate the 1st round seems a poor pay off.

What we want is some hits in the 20-50 region. That's where our F2 could be used.

Richmond 23 + F3.

Port 29 + 50.

St K 32 + 47.

We take a 2025 pick slide hit but at a lower impact than doing it with a potential top 5 pick.

I'm not sure it is. It's tracking as not only a more compromised draft next year but also the open pool drops off far quicker than this year. Even if we finish better but bottom 5 our F2 will potentially finish in the early 30's. The only way we get a taste is if other teams are done drafting.

On the other hand we have the capacity to trade back in from two future drafts as of next year. If we see something we really like (and want to keep pick 2) the F1 is the only valuable commodity here.

 

[Heaps of fun]

These are the last five drafts:

2019 - Mahony, Perez, Comben. No mids.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Lazzarro, Spicer, Ford. Three mids.
2021 - JHF, Goatboy, Curtis, Bergman, Archer. One mid, since gone.
2022 - Sheeze, Warlord, George, Harvey. One mid, two if you count Sheezel, who you have on the forward line in your team list.
2023 - McKercher, Duursma, Hardeman, Goad and Dawson. One mid.

It averages out to one per draft plus Sheezel and we only had LDU, Jy as a forward/mid available and in that time we've let Cunners, Higgo, Jed, Froggy, TT and JZ go as well as Shiels and Greenwood. Its a myth that we drafted heaps of them, all we've really done is replace the ones we've lost. Just barely. Losing TT really changes the equation too.

In that time we've drafted nearly as many non KPP forwards and defenders as mids, more in total, nearly twice as many.

Goater, Mahony, Drury and Duursma all played a lot of midfield in their junior years.

 

[Mixed Results]

Teams usually rotate four midfielders through the centre. At most it's five, but that fifth midfielder usually spends most of his time forward of the ball.

LDU, Simpkin, Parker, Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher, Powell, and Phillips are the capable names we have to fill those four spots.

Zurhaar, Curtis, and Duursma also have some upside next year to have some limited rotations.

I don't think it's fair to put midfielders on the wing, half forward, and the bench, and then complain that we lack depth in the midfield. The reality is that we have too many midfielders and will have to play names like Simpkin, Parker, and McKercher out of position to fit them all in the side.

The real problem is why we don't have entrenched wings, half forwards, and half backs that don't allow us to use names like Sheezel, Powell and Simpkin to fill in the blanks for our theoretical best 22s.

 

[KingNorth23]

These are the last five drafts:

2019 - Mahony, Perez, Comben. No mids.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Lazzarro, Spicer, Ford. Three mids.
2021 - JHF, Goatboy, Curtis, Bergman, Archer. One mid, since gone.
2022 - Sheeze, Warlord, George, Harvey. One mid, two if you count Sheezel, who you have on the forward line in your team list.
2023 - McKercher, Duursma, Hardeman, Goad and Dawson. One mid.

It averages out to one per draft plus Sheezel and we only had LDU, Jy as a forward/mid available and in that time we've let Cunners, Higgo, Jed, Froggy, TT and JZ go as well as Shiels and Greenwood. Its a myth that we drafted heaps of them, all we've really done is replace the ones we've lost. Just barely. Losing TT really changes the equation too.

In that time we've drafted nearly as many non KPP forwards and defenders as mids, more in total, nearly twice as many.

Might sound crazy saying this but we need another mid. Would be so good if we can steal a Harvey Langford or Sam Lalor to bull players who are so exciting to watch.

 

[Sillygit]

I think it rhymes with duck yo.

Why would they say truck flow?

 

[Supa_Nova]

Pick 25 for Caleb Daniel based on these drafts seems unders...

For reference the CCJ pick was used be GWS eventually for Max Gruzewski which stings a bit. But he can't even get a game, and could end up with us in the next couple of years anyway.

Max Holmes the pick of the bunch and then not bloody much else, and Holmes was the covid draft!

Overs? Unders? Who cares. He is a sensational pick-up and at the least means fisher and Stephens aren't walk up starts now. Pressure is coming. Improvement needs to come next.

This is horrendous reading. Makes a mockery of how we all rate draft picks doesn't it? Me included.

 

[perplexed]

These are the last five drafts:

2019 - Mahony, Perez, Comben. No mids.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Lazzarro, Spicer, Ford. Three mids.
2021 - JHF, Goatboy, Curtis, Bergman, Archer. One mid, since gone.
2022 - Sheeze, Warlord, George, Harvey. One mid, two if you count Sheezel, who you have on the forward line in your team list.
2023 - McKercher, Duursma, Hardeman, Goad and Dawson. One mid.

It averages out to one per draft plus Sheezel and we only had LDU, Jy as a forward/mid available and in that time we've let Cunners, Higgo, Jed, Froggy, TT and JZ go as well as Shiels and Greenwood. Its a myth that we drafted heaps of them, all we've really done is replace the ones we've lost. Just barely. Losing TT really changes the equation too.

In that time we've drafted nearly as many non KPP forwards and defenders as mids, more in total, nearly twice as many.

The imbalance is where we have taken our mids and talls. It's mostly top 5 mids and late/DFA talls. We are missing midfield role players / workhorses and quality talls.

 

[Moti]

Unless the Tigers are desperate for two players that won't be there at six, I think they're more likely to trade a couple of picks into next year's draft than chase 2 too hard

Sheezel and Wardlaw. Not often you get to choose your midfield pairing in one draft. They have to get this right. Don't want to get the same type at 1 and 6, rather have complementary players.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Unless the Tigers are desperate for two players that won't be there at six, I think they're more likely to trade a couple of picks into next year's draft than chase 2 too hard

They want 2 of Lalor/FOS/Jagga who are all good mates

Lalor and FOS school mates
Fos and Jagga chargers teammates

They will trade up from 6 to make sure it happens, helps that they have so many first rounders to play with

 

[Devski]

Pick 25 for Caleb Daniel based on these drafts seems unders...

For reference the CCJ pick was used be GWS eventually for Max Gruzewski which stings a bit. But he can't even get a game, and could end up with us in the next couple of years anyway.

Max Holmes the pick of the bunch and then not bloody much else, and Holmes was the covid draft!

Overs? Unders? Who cares. He is a sensational pick-up and at the least means fisher and Stephens aren't walk up starts now. Pressure is coming. Improvement needs to come next.

Bunch of nobody's at 25.

This 25 is also going to slide even more spots with bidding.

 

[shintemaster]

I would have liked to see him tried as a defender last season. Has some toughness, did a nice defensive job on Sicly in 23, good overhead and a nice kick. Would have been better than some we tried or persisted with.

Yeah, dunno. Agree he has those attributes, I'm not 100% sold he has the footy brain to be a good defender though at his size. Not against exploring it htough.

 

[HBFlanker]

2025 first round draft pick should be offered to Richmond for picks 10 and 11.

Run the risk of us improving next year, back ourselves in, and provide them with an avenue to sread some of their draft pick bounty into next year

Gives them 1,6,18,20,23,24 in this draft, and then already two first round picks next year.

Enter the draft with picks 2,10,11 and then take River Stevens as a rookie.

Langford
Tauru
Armstrong

 

[shintemaster]

Not totally against splitting a pick but I think it is also worth considering how many young players we've brought in over the last few years. It would have to be a very good offer with guaranteed access to a player we still rate in that top 5-6... I'm not against just holding on to what we have and delisting to open up another spot. We have alot of young players to develop and it's not the worst thing to take a pause and only bring in quality and development players for this year.

 

[HBFlanker]

Not totally against splitting a pick but I think it is also worth considering how many young players we've brought in over the last few years. It would have to be a very good offer with guaranteed access to a player we still rate in that top 5-6... I'm not against just holding on to what we have and delisting to open up another spot. We have alot of young players to develop and it's not the worst thing to take a pause and only bring in quality and development players for this year.

Which is why we dont need picks in 2025 draft.

 

[shintemaster]

Which is why we dont need picks in 2025 draft.

Meh, maybe. We have a lot of development and limited resources. I'm not saying no, but there is a fine line between too many young players and not enough. I'm comfortable either way - for the right price.

 

[King Corey]

I'm not sure it is. It's tracking as not only a more compromised draft next year but also the open pool drops off far quicker than this year. Even if we finish better but bottom 5 our F2 will potentially finish in the early 30's. The only way we get a taste is if other teams are done drafting.

On the other hand we have the capacity to trade back in from two future drafts as of next year. If we see something we really like (and want to keep pick 2) the F1 is the only valuable commodity here.

To me that increases the upside of trading out the F2?

 

[DocSholl]

They want 2 of Lalor/FOS/Jagga who are all good mates

Lalor and FOS school mates
Fos and Jagga chargers teammates

They will trade up from 6 to make sure it happens, helps that they have so many first rounders to play with

Is this fact or just your preference because you want to split the pick?