List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[gringo2011]

Will be another year older next year. Injury prone. If only take him if he was basically free.

I'd actually want something to take him to free up cap for them. He's unlikely to play more games next year so we basically throw away a list spot and a million dollars to rehab him. It's an absolute head scratcher as to why they'd even look at him.

Sometimes I think the club enjoys trolling the fans. We'll sell Marshall, Steele and Battle and replace them with Lobb, Butts and Shiel.

Perhaps they think that we're all sadomasochists that like it rough.

 

[gringo2011]

Brad had a very slow start with the Saints, but no question he has been worth the trade and cost. Great player and sets a great standard at the club.

Almost has played 100 matches for the Saints and plenty more to come.

The Serong chat implies that Saints would have definitely drafted him. That’s not a definite. Who knows who they would have drafted.

Still think he wasn't anywhere near worth the trade value that we paid. We were keen on Hayden Young so even he would have been a gun with that pick and also gave up Max Holmes, Sampson Ryan and Blake Acres.

He's a great cultural asset and now playing good footy for us but he's not moved our list closer to a flag where those other guys definitely would have. We stuffed the timing of topping up.

 

[gringo2011]

Has been explained to you a 1000 times, one frdp plus a bunch of low picks would not have done anything for the list.

You go on about some fantasy about topping up when the list balance was shredded.
I suppose you say the same thing long enough and you convince yourself it's true despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Doesn't take into account the football Hill has played for us which is consistently good as well as being a leader of the many indigenous players. He was instrumental in settling kids in and was instrumental in settling NWM and convincing him to stay at the Saints.
His worth to the club has been huge but that doesn't suit the narrative that keeping Acres and one first rounder would have somehow won us the flag.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's been explained to you that it wasn't one pick. Hill was terrible until Lyon got him and used him properly. He got paid a million bucks a year to look lost for his first couple of years.

How do you know that Hill got Nas to stay. The only person I saw credited was Mason Wood who has taken a bunch of young guys under his wing. Is it because they are both black fellas? It's like saying that Clavarino would make Garcia stay because they are both latinish.

Having put more youth in would have meant that when we challenge a couple of good players were still on the list. Hill will probably be long gone by there time we get ready to challenge again

 

[g_TRAIN]

I'd actually want something to take him to free up cap for them. He's unlikely to play more games next year so we basically throw away a list spot and a million dollars to rehab him. It's an absolute head scratcher as to why they'd even look at him.

Sometimes I think the club enjoys trolling the fans. We'll sell Marshall, Steele and Battle and replace them with Lobb, Butts and Shiel.

Perhaps they think that we're all sadomasochists that like it rough.

I reckon it depends what else plays out in the trade and free agency period.

My usual reaction to taking someone like Shiel would be to vomit. However recently I've started to value the idea of making sure our kids are supported by a good cohort of senior players. (In my opinion it helps their development)

If his body was 100% right and the deal made sense salary cap wise I might be able to come around. Clubs like Geelong and Collingwood do so well at getting their youth up to speed quickly because they are so well supported by a good senior core. I know Shiel is not the quality of Hodge but I think Brisbane made a great move in getting him across for a couple of seasons to help show the young guys the way.

 

[gringo2011]

Unfortunately it may not be a matter of us letting him go, but his desire to chase success with the Hawthorn dream. If money and terms are similar, it may be simply that Hawthorn has turned his head and he wants to go.

Someone that knows his family said that he was a very loyal person to the club and team-mates. I think the Saints might have hurt his feelings. I think they made it pretty clear that the relationship was transactional and if the deal benefitted St Kilda we weren't shifting. Same with Gresham and a few others of our old players. Tim Membrey was told he might get traded if a deal could be done last year. A lot of guys probably struggle with the brutal reality that they are confronted with for the first time.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

I'd actually want something to take him to free up cap for them. He's unlikely to play more games next year so we basically throw away a list spot and a million dollars to rehab him. It's an absolute head scratcher as to why they'd even look at him.

Sometimes I think the club enjoys trolling the fans. We'll sell Marshall, Steele and Battle and replace them with Lobb, Butts and Shiel.

Perhaps they think that we're all sadomasochists that like it rough.

Surely you're taking the piss?

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

I'd rather waste two years of list space on an unlikely 18yo with huge upside but probably won't make it , than waste two years of list space on Sheil.

It’s probably the experience he can impart on the young players, whether it be at training, off field or on field direction especially around pivotal or pressure moments of a match, or just set ups at a contest etc. A list void of experience will lead to another downward depression like North.

In the end, pick your pain.

I’ll defer to the club to determine the best options.

 

[SaintOfLondon]

Someone that knows his family said that he was a very loyal person to the club and team-mates. I think the Saints might have hurt his feelings. I think they made it pretty clear that the relationship was transactional and if the deal benefitted St Kilda we weren't shifting. Same with Gresham and a few others of our old players. Tim Membrey was told he might get traded if a deal could be done last year. A lot of guys probably struggle with the brutal reality that they are confronted with for the first time.

It's fine for the club to send that message but they need to know they can't have it all on their terms, if they are going to make it clear it's a business transaction then they can't be surprised to see Battle leave when only offered money for a second round compensation.

I think the clubs thinking is correct but the communication to key players could be more strategic.

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

It would be a massive risk. And Melbourne would need to pay at least a first round pick and a percentage of his salary, or a first round pick and additional picks (in net terms) for paying a lesser proportion of his contract.

Could be a disaster or could be the trade of the century. If Oliver goes to a new club and becomes the player he was then it is a tempting deal. How likely is that though?

Risk vs Reward. IMO the risk is far too great. And Melbourne will need to cough up plenty in terms of trade currency if Oliver doesn’t renegotiate his existing deal. And why would he do that?

I can’t see it happening.

Agreed. Before any player that comes onto the list, he or she has to fit into club and playing group culture. Otherwise, regardless of who it is, they can be hugely divisive. Once again a Melbourne Storm thing and an approach used by Angie Postecoglou

 

[stavro#4]

Sorry Nup
I normally nod when I read your stuff
This is batshyte dumb
He’s played a handful of consecutive games so good to go???
I’d need a much bigger body of evidence than that
Rather throw sink at McRae
No hope in hell if we land this spud sets us back

Dumb would be holding our dick and expecting to improve with a bunch of kids and burning your cap space by just forward paying these kids.

Everything needs to be in balance.

Am I advocating for Shiel? No
Do I understand why we would be interested? Yes I can see why he would appeal.

What do I hope we do? Buy big contracts with picks attached and just work our way through that process. But we have very little elder statesmen left if the likely cuts to the list are made.


As I have said a few times in the last 24 hours.

View everything through a balanced mindset.

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

Shiel had his chance in 2018 when we threw our 'war chest' in his direction. $8m over 6 years was the rumour, he took a lot less because he didn't want to do it tough at a minnow club like what he had to deal with early days at GWS.

I would be ropeable if we decided to pump up his superannuation just before retirement.

Regardless if it’s Shiel or similar, we need mature heads around the playing list especially around our midfield group. Which lacks quality and is mostly inexperienced. Considering the pending moving on of existing experience at season’s end. Otherwise its lambs to the slaughter, i.e refer to North.

I’ll defer to the club to best determine the best options.

 

[Desperate saint]

Has been explained to you a 1000 times, one frdp plus a bunch of low picks would not have done anything for the list.

You go on about some fantasy about topping up when the list balance was shredded.
I suppose you say the same thing long enough and you convince yourself it's true despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Doesn't take into account the football Hill has played for us which is consistently good as well as being a leader of the many indigenous players. He was instrumental in settling kids in and was instrumental in settling NWM and convincing him to stay at the Saints.
His worth to the club has been huge but that doesn't suit the narrative that keeping Acres and one first rounder would have somehow won us the flag.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

agree 100% and durable never misses a game-

 

[stavro#4]

It would be a massive risk. And Melbourne would need to pay at least a first round pick and a percentage of his salary, or a first round pick and additional picks (in net terms) for paying a lesser proportion of his contract.

Could be a disaster or could be the trade of the century. If Oliver goes to a new club and becomes the player he was then it is a tempting deal. How likely is that though?

Risk vs Reward. IMO the risk is far too great. And Melbourne will need to cough up plenty in terms of trade currency if Oliver doesn’t renegotiate his existing deal. And why would he do that?

I can’t see it happening.

Do I think it will happen? No

Even if it did - clubs like Geelong would be wanting a crack at making it work. Adelaide too.

But success shouldn’t just be either:

He is a gun. Or he goes of the rails and dies.

There is a bigger scope to judge how successful he might be for us and it wouldn’t just be he was a superstar mid again. Even just a good afl level inside mid would significantly improve us.

 

[stavro#4]

Will be another year older next year. Injury prone. If only take him if he was basically free.

I wouldn’t want him for any cost other than practically free. Or late pick swaps.

But he is fit now and the last 2 weeks he hasn’t looked cooked.

 

[akaifu]

Where’s his leadership potential????
Looking scared but buffed all the time ??
Guy can’t get on the park
No point being the leader of rehab
If this has legs it’s makes gags look like a god
Dumb if true
Surely surely there are other fringe we could target ….as sone suggest state league …anything…

He was in Dons leadership group 2020

 

[Captain Paddy]

Gotta tell ya, if the club did their homework on Oliver and decided it was worth the risk AND we get a first round pick because we have the cap space that few do to take him on, I'm all for it.

Genuinely one of the best mids in the game, can't judge the output this year and compare it to others, basically had no pre season (granted due to his own actions) but even with 2024 level of output he'd still probably be our best mid.

There's no way we turn down a mid of that quality AND a first rounder lol

 

[akaifu]

Yes Geelong lost that midfield experience but they DIDN'T respond by getting an overpriced Shiel-type and they currently sit 3rd... so I don't get the analogy.

The analogy is meant for when the Cats had Danger and Guthrie injured - in that period they were carried by their elite defence and forward line - they literally had no one in the mids and were statistically the easiest team for opposition teams to accumulate against. Now that Danger is back, they've returned to form both through the midfield and as a team

 

[akaifu]

Gotta tell ya, if the club did their homework on Oliver and decided it was worth the risk AND we get a first round pick because we have the cap space that few do to take him on, I'm all for it.

Genuinely one of the best mids in the game, can't judge the output this year and compare it to others, basically had no pre season (granted due to his own actions) but even with 2024 level of output he'd still probably be our best mid.

There's no way we turn down a mid of that quality AND a first rounder lol

Issue with Oliver this year is that he's clearly overweight and struggling to spread from stoppage. has also lost the power to get contested ball and clearance. If we get him on a gruelling conditioning block over pre-season, it could be really worthwhile. The extra 1st would be elite

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

I wouldn’t want him for any cost other than practically free. Or late pick swaps.

But he is fit now and the last 2 weeks he hasn’t looked cooked.

Really, if it is Shiel or similar it is a no brainer. Minimal pick collateral in return for off field and training leadership and an on field general, especially considering our midfield group is void of experience and quality.

Do I expect a player like Shiel to play every match, absolutely not. That is the expectation is for the younger players.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'd actually want something to take him to free up cap for them. He's unlikely to play more games next year so we basically throw away a list spot and a million dollars to rehab him. It's an absolute head scratcher as to why they'd even look at him.

Sometimes I think the club enjoys trolling the fans. We'll sell Marshall, Steele and Battle and replace them with Lobb, Butts and Shiel.

Perhaps they think that we're all sadomasochists that like it rough.

Sometimes I think the fans enjoy trolling themselves.

 

[Jade Buddha]

The big picture is what the club needs to be seeing right now.
We’ve been screaming out for mids for a decade and the problem won’t get fixed by sitting still.
To bring players in or not? To start again with kids or not? Or is it part both?
A major issue is also that teams are built through cultural bonding and by them demonstrating their commitment to each other and the club.
People see Battle as having done that and that not only is he a good player coming into their prime but also as a culturally desirable person.
We’ve burnt players in the past whether that be through good intentions for the future of the club or not, so people are panicked that we are doing it again.
At a point a level of trust will be needed. Some are anti Lyon and some are pro. If you put personalities aside the question is do you think the current regime are capable of putting together the structure and culture within the club to achieve success.
Battle types will always be where most consternation resides. The individual vs the team. Every club deals with this whether it becomes public or not.
Do we attempt at a cost to give the team the best opportunity to resolve the midfield issue or do we hold the individual up as being what we stand for and thereby promote culture.
You can’t sit on your hands with this one. A decision has to be made.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Someone that knows his family said that he was a very loyal person to the club and team-mates. I think the Saints might have hurt his feelings. I think they made it pretty clear that the relationship was transactional and if the deal benefitted St Kilda we weren't shifting. Same with Gresham and a few others of our old players. Tim Membrey was told he might get traded if a deal could be done last year. A lot of guys probably struggle with the brutal reality that they are confronted with for the first time.

Maybe so. But "hurt feelings?" Come on.
We are supposed to be a professional sport.
The players want to be able to move when and where they want to.
The same deal should be given to the clubs.
Sorry, but there is no loyalty any more in a professional game.
In America (I know we are not there) players are traded mid-season.

The only loyalty is that of the fans to their club.

 

[stavro#4]

Really, if it is Shiel or similar it is a no brainer. Minimal pick collateral in return for off field and training leadership and an on field general, especially considering our midfield group is void of experience and quality.

Do I expect a player like Shiel to play every match, absolutely not. That is the expectation is for the younger players.

I think if rumours are to be believed and you exit Ross and crouch is cooked.

You need to replace that experience. Our weakest area is the midfield.

Again, I’m open to anything as long as the decision doesn’t impact the future.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

I enjoy the banter of hypothetical trades and whatnot as much as the next schlepper but come on folks, there's no way we're getting Clarry and a first round draft pick.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I cant believe people are considering making a play for Oliver. Why do you think Melbourne would be keen to see him leave? The guy is a train wreck, you think you can ingest the amount of illicit substances he has and it doesnt affect his cogntive and physical abilities. The guy is literally cooked, hence why Melbourne would want to cash in.