List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Captain Paddy]

Issue with Oliver this year is that he's clearly overweight and struggling to spread from stoppage. has also lost the power to get contested ball and clearance. If we get him on a gruelling conditioning block over pre-season, it could be really worthwhile. The extra 1st would be elite

Imagine getting a potential brownlow medalists PLUS a first rounder just because the other club was nervous about him.

We are St.Kilda. If it doesn't work and he's a bust it's probably off field stuff which means we won't have to payout his contract anything.

But also, we are use to disappointment so if he is a bust we just shrug and move forward like normal and then sook about it among all the other busts along the way.

But... if it works out, we fix one of our biggest issues PLUS get 3 firsts in a draft thats mid heavy

I'm in!

 

[Captain Paddy]

I think if rumours are to be believed and you exit Ross and crouch is cooked.

You need to replace that experience. Our weakest area is the midfield.

Again, I’m open to anything as long as the decision doesn’t impact the future.

I'd 100% rather just give all those minutes to Windy (not tagging) Owens rotating, Garcia, Pou etc

 

[stavro#4]

I'd 100% rather just give all those minutes to Windy (not tagging) Owens rotating, Garcia, Pou etc

By doing so there is a likelihood we struggle next season - because of a very inexperienced midfield.

Thats the flipside to people hating the idea of the likes of Shiel/macrae/some other old fart.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Someone that knows his family said that he was a very loyal person to the club and team-mates. I think the Saints might have hurt his feelings. I think they made it pretty clear that the relationship was transactional and if the deal benefitted St Kilda we weren't shifting. Same with Gresham and a few others of our old players. Tim Membrey was told he might get traded if a deal could be done last year. A lot of guys probably struggle with the brutal reality that they are confronted with for the first time.

That first line is well known and disputed by no one.

The rest of your post is pure speculation tinted with your incurable obsession that everything our club does is effed.

 

[gubby88]

For sure. Geelong fans are jizzing themselves over Mannaugh at the moment. I haven’t seen them play recently but he must be doing well. The guys that dominate state leagues generally seem to walk into AFL quite easily. Wilkie and Hayes were both guns in the SANFL. Bailey Frisch the VFL. Liam Ryan and Kelly the WAFL.

sam collins as well

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[gringo2011]

I reckon it depends what else plays out in the trade and free agency period.

My usual reaction to taking someone like Shiel would be to vomit. However recently I've started to value the idea of making sure our kids are supported by a good cohort of senior players. (In my opinion it helps their development)

If his body was 100% right and the deal made sense salary cap wise I might be able to come around. Clubs like Geelong and Collingwood do so well at getting their youth up to speed quickly because they are so well supported by a good senior core. I know Shiel is not the quality of Hodge but I think Brisbane made a great move in getting him across for a couple of seasons to help show the young guys the way.

32 year olds with a long history of injury don't usually suddenly come good.

Maybe so. But "hurt feelings?" Come on.
We are supposed to be a professional sport.
The players want to be able to move when and where they want to.
The same deal should be given to the clubs.
Sorry, but there is no loyalty any more in a professional game.
In America (I know we are not there) players are traded mid-season.

The only loyalty is that of the fans to their club.

You can still make the players feel wanted.

 

[gringo2011]

By doing so there is a likelihood we struggle next season - because of a very inexperienced midfield.

Thats the flipside to people hating the idea of the likes of Shiel/macrae/some other old fart.

Old is fine. Shiel is not. He’s a waste of space.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Haven't seen much of the dogs of late, how has Macrae been going?

 

[XhazzafootyX]

There was rumours last year we were into Ainsworth… is that still the case

 

[Captain Paddy]

By doing so there is a likelihood we struggle next season - because of a very inexperienced midfield.

Thats the flipside to people hating the idea of the likes of Shiel/macrae/some other old fart.

Who cares if we struggle, let's do a rebuild properly for once. Give the young guys as much time as possible. Not another Hanners/ZakJones style pleb

 

[dudeintheswamp]

I see this year Macrae's averaging 19.9 disposals from 15 games, well down on his career numbers. I'm guessing he's playing less midfield, more flank?

 

[Captain Paddy]

There was rumours last year we were into Ainsworth… is that still the case

He seems to be a lock for the Dons according to Twomey

 

[The Punter]

He seems to be a lock for the Dons according to Twomey

Which is why they need to clear Shiel's salary from the cap

 

[stfan]

Someone that knows his family said that he was a very loyal person to the club and team-mates. I think the Saints might have hurt his feelings. I think they made it pretty clear that the relationship was transactional and if the deal benefitted St Kilda we weren't shifting. Same with Gresham and a few others of our old players. Tim Membrey was told he might get traded if a deal could be done last year. A lot of guys probably struggle with the brutal reality that they are confronted with for the first time.

There is a Catch 22 in this.

So we can go all transactional to get a better playing list, BUT I doubt you will ever win a flag with a team full of "transactional" players. Plus it can devalue the players you keep.

Flags come about when many things have been done well, not everything, but most things. But I doubt a flag has every been won without a strong Esprit des Corps from the playing group.

So if too many transactional deals gets done that will have negative effect on the Esprit des Corps. Players will just view it as a workplace till they oo get get moved on.

Players becoming commodities, is not likely to get over clubs where the players are well, players.




Having said that we are also going nowhere unless we address our midfield. Crouch possibly being gone with a chronic knee has just made a poor situation worse.

Battle may well go to try and address our midfield flaw. I understand the brutal logic behind it. But if he does, I would hope it is the last such sacrifice the club makes for a long, long time where a true team man is effectively given the nudge.

 

[stfan]

There was rumours last year we were into Ainsworth… is that still the case

Problem is he is Contract Status: RFA at the end of 2024 . So if Battle goes, that would devalue our compo, and if so defeats the purpose of sacrificing Battle.

 

[SteeleSaints]

By doing so there is a likelihood we struggle next season - because of a very inexperienced midfield.

Thats the flipside to people hating the idea of the likes of Shiel/macrae/some other old fart.

I think the current list management team are the most experienced and credentialled we have ever had and for a change they are not getting pressured by the club looking for immediate results. The didnt have much to work with when they came in, but we are all hoping they can make changes to the list on the run without completely bottoming out.Hopefully that is the case and we can navigate a tricky transitional period with the list!

The longer the season goes on the more evident it is that Josh Battle has decided to leave. As much as we love the guy and dont want him to leave the harsh reality is that we dont have the recruiting pull of the larger clubs. To improve our long term future the club are making the tough decision to release Josh to get two picks of elite midfield talent. The key being long term - they will not be immediate fixes to our midfield they will need time to develop. Again no one wants to see him leave but we dont have 3 top 10 father son midfielders readily accessible and we simply have to set our midfield up for the next 10 -15 years. Its a risk but a club in our position just has to make these decisions otherwise we keep treading water and going no where.

We have salary cap excess we cant spend, so if Shiels doesnt cost much trade wise he would be a reasonable short term option. Particularly if Crouch is cooked we simply cant expect the kids and Steele to carry our midfield. I hope the club are still looking at other developed players who are not getting midfield minutes due to their clubs depth or coaching decisions. Davies at GCS is the classic example as was Henry last year.

The next major list need is to find a ready to go ruckman - Campbell replacement. I dont want to jinx us but what if we lose Marshall for an extended period, we would be horribly exposed! Campbell is a collosus at VFL level but as we saw a few weeks ago he just isnt up to the next level. Heath is getting closer but will he be able to manage the step up in physicallity, speed and aerobic running at the next level. Generally when young ruckman start getting exposed to the AFL level they still take 2 or 3 years to fully find their feet. That said we need to look at another option during this trade period and obviously that will cost draft capital? The benefit being the flexibility that now clubs will be able to trade picks two years in advance. Hopefully we can find another ready to go ruckman and look at bringing in another young ruckman in the future. Xerri would have been the perfect fit if we had those options two years ago.

Stavro has suggested we are possibly moving on Howard and bringing in Butts, if thats the case then hopefully those trades cancel each other out and dont cost extra draft positions. I gather the club have a plan for the replacement of Battle, if its Caminiti then obviously we will need to find another CHF option. We simply cant expect Max King to carry the load forward, we have seen what that burden has done to him in the past. Hayes would have been the obvious choice but it looks like he is in the same boat as Crouch with his knee.

The other list hole I see that needs addressing is to find natural goal kickers who are as strong over head as they are at ground level. We need to find a player in the mould of Jamie Elliot or Charlie Cameron which are tough to find.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So if we keep away from Shiel, the Bombers might not be able to get Ainsworth, so then we might have a chance.

So we'll get Shiel for sure.
We're like an alcoholic who pulls empty cans from the bin outside the venue to drink the dregs.

 

[Joffaboy]

That first line is well known and disputed by no one.

The rest of your post is pure speculation tinted with your incurable obsession that everything our club does is effed.

If only we had kept that one first round dp and Acres we would be multiple flag winners by now.
Instead we topped up with the likes of Butler, Howard and Hill. Even though Hill helped us keep NWM and got Henry to the club, one of those 3rd rounders from 2019 would have been able to do the same.
Now we have hurt Battle's feelings, does this incompetence ever end?

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[Joffaboy]

One last thing and keep this in mind...

If we don't get band 1 for Battle it will be an absolute disaster.
Everything for this being acceptable is predicated on this.
Will alleviate the loss. Some pick 23 or some such would be appalling.

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[jimmytigs]

One last thing and keep this in mind...

If we don't get band 1 for Battle it will be an absolute disaster.
Everything for this being acceptable is predicated on this.
Will alleviate the loss. Some pick 23 or some such would be appalling.

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agree,but if battle gets more money to go than Mckay and we get screwed,then i believe thats the end,thats the afl directly telling us to our faces that we will never get a fair go,we are shit and just there to make up the numbers,in past weve got lots of hints,but i think this scenario would be so direct any idiot can see it

 

[stavro#4]

One last thing and keep this in mind...

If we don't get band 1 for Battle it will be an absolute disaster.
Everything for this being acceptable is predicated on this.
Will alleviate the loss. Some pick 23 or some such would be appalling.

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I’m confident the club knows the trigger point and that they know where the Battle offer sits.

 

[gringo2011]

Haven't seen much of the dogs of late, how has Macrae been going?

They are playing him out of the midfield a lot more these days. Probably a high half forward role. He still a good player but looks less dominant without playing inside midfield. He'd be our best or second best mid still IMO. Makes much more sense than Shiel.

 

[SteeleSaints]

So if we keep away from Shiel, the Bombers might not be able to get Ainsworth, so then we might have a chance.

So we'll get Shiel for sure.
We're like an alcoholic who pulls empty cans from the bin outside the venue to drink the dregs.

Isnt Ainsworth a free agent, grabbing him would wipe out our Battle compensation?

 

[gringo2011]

agree,but if battle gets more money to go than Mckay and we get screwed,then i believe thats the end,thats the afl directly telling us to our faces that we will never get a fair go,we are shit and just there to make up the numbers,in past weve got lots of hints,but i think this scenario would be so direct any idiot can see it

They have always used it as a disguised priority pick. I don't think it will make any difference to how they do anything. It's up to the Saints to scare the AFL into believing that our list is in a perilous state. Pretty easy at the moment.

We have been too proud to properly bottom out and so get left out of the AFL's line of sight. I reckon we will end up with a really uncompetitive list next year by the time we cut hard into our depth. We are probably a couple of key injuries off bottom spot once we do that.

 

[gringo2011]

If only we had kept that one first round dp and Acres we would be multiple flag winners by now.
Instead we topped up with the likes of Butler, Howard and Hill. Even though Hill helped us keep NWM and got Henry to the club, one of those 3rd rounders from 2019 would have been able to do the same.
Now we have hurt Battle's feelings, does this incompetence ever end?

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No we'd be closer to completing a rebuild instead of starting one. I don't know how Hill recruited players but it was a good trick. He should have got his nephew in too.