List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[akaifu]

Yeah and I agree.

But landing one is very hard. You can’t rely on planning

I know we had a few out who would make us better.

But I’m seriously deflated after yesterday. It was a real genuine, wtf are we doing moment.

Love Battle. Love Steele.

But Battle was probably our best. Had it 24 times.

Yet Andrews impact was so much greater from his 18 touches.

Steele is a shadow of the 2020/21 AA.

I just don’t want to go down this road where we try and make finals with half the talent of everyone else.

Yeah we might blow the picks. But right now it’s like running on a hamster wheel. We know our ceiling. We need more than 1 good first rounder each year.

I’d seriously let Battle go. Trade Steele.

Bring in both Shiel and Macrae for more senior support and I’d absolutely do my due diligence on Oliver if a first rounder is attached.

We have to go all in on a draft. Tassie is coming and if we keep the path we are on, we will sink when Tassie dilutes the draft.

I still think Steele can turn things around with more support. Our midfield is absolute ass and his form is suffering from it. Obviously if a club comes knocking with a top 15 pick and a second rounder then we should probably take it, but I'm not letting him go for anything less than that. One late teens pick for Steele doesn't feel right at all even in a deep draft

Battle has to go otherwise this 'refresh' is pointless. It'd be a half-arse refresh that takes us from mid-table to week 1 finals, then the entire process repeats. I'd prefer bottom four to top four

As you said, one of his best games of the season and we still lost by 85 points - as good as he is, he is not changing any fortunes at this club. However, a top 10 pick midfielder definitely could. If one of our mids played at that standard, its a 3-5 goal difference. Mutually part ways with him, let him chase success at the Hawks, give us band 1, and all parties are satisfied. McLennan, Arie, Keeler, Caminiti, Cole, Cordy will be enough to cover him. If not, there are always depth defenders on the market; Harry Edwards, Tomlinson, Haynes, Busslinger, Lewis Young, Marchbank

 

[stfan]

Yes, it is part of the plan. In 2026, we'll start trading for stars after we attack the draft from 23-25. Bassett has said this countless numbers of times

It may be part of the plan, however trading in genuine stars, or landing genuine star free agents, who do not have some form of problem such as injuries, has proven to be extremely difficult in modern times for St Kida.

It has been very slim pickings.

You have to go way back to when we landed Blight as coach when the allure of him being our coach greatly helped us to drag in some good talent. Well that and "Pigs Arse" Elliot rubbing Hamill up the wrong way.

Then say in 1983 Foschini and Morwood.

So for Barret to deliver the Saints are going to have to create some form of winning strategy to give us an edge. Otherwise any Big Fish we chase will either just re-sign at his own club on improved terms, choose one of the bigger Melbourne based Teams over us, or choose a club in their Premiership Window.


Personally, I will only believe that we are landing genuine starts it when it happens.

Hill we were lucky with as his partner wanted to come back to Melbourne and live bayside again. And we had to pay overs in $$ and trade to get him.

Crouch we did ok with, but we had no one else really chasing him.

 

[Broski]

Regardless if Battle has re-signed, I am not sure that allowing the news to come out today would be the greatest of ideas.

After yesterday's performance, I am sure most supporters couldn't feel much flatter and this 'good news story' wouldn't do much to create excitement - maybe I am wrong.

Also, I am more confident in this current administration is greatly more competent then the last couple we have had over the years, but we still have to participate in the mightily equal and fair league that we have.

While I am sure there is a plan in place to improve this donkey of a midfield, I just find it so hard to get excited. Especially when flag contenders access the best talent for free and others around us have multiple first rounders.

I just don't know how we bring in draft currency without trading players like Steele, which seems unlikely. Taking one first round pick into this draft seems depressing. Maybe we will look to trade our future first?

Looping back to Battle - I just don't see how we get better if Battle re-signs. I know it sounds horrible, because he is one of my favourites and is arguably one of our most consistent performers. However, having two high picks allows us to head into the direction we need to go. Either by using those two picks, or splitting and getting two later first rounders.

Plenty of water to go under the bridge, but it is shaping as one of our most important off-seasons in recent memory.

 

[stfan]

I am really beginning to think with Brisbane, GC,

Yes very had for us to build a better list when they basically get extra first rounder pretty much year in, year out.

We are getting exited just because our first pick is relatively low. That is a lot less valuable that the clubs who get access to early pick players on an ongoing basis.


Clubs like St Kilda gettin access to their NGA players if Top 40 is nota fair trade compared to Academy's that are pumping out top draft pick players every year.

North getting more free hits

What extra free hit is North getting? I thought their largess had now ceased?

 

[saintkildaman]

Losing Battle and trading Steele would be a good way to destroy the fabric of the club

 

[ScrappyDo]

Losing Battle and trading Steele would be a good way to destroy the fabric of the club

Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[akaifu]

It may be part of the plan, however trading in genuine stars, or landing genuine star free agents, who do not have some form of problem such as injuries, has proven to be extremely difficult in modern times for St Kida.

It has been very slim pickings.

You have to go way back to when we landed Blight as coach when the allure of him being our coach greatly helped us to drag in some good talent. Well that and "Pigs Arse" Elliot rubbing Hamill up the wrong way.

Then say in 1983 Foschini and Morwood.

So for Barret to deliver the Saints are going to have to create some form of winning strategy to give us an edge. Otherwise any Big Fish we chase will either just re-sign at his own club on improved terms, choose one of the bigger Melbourne based Teams over us, or choose a club in their Premiership Window.


Personally, I will only believe that we are landing genuine starts it when it happens.

Hill we were lucky with as his partner wanted to come back to Melbourne and live bayside again. And we had to pay overs in $$ and trade to get him.

Crouch we did ok with, but we had no one else really chasing him.

I totally agree, we need to perform well enough to entice these potential recruits

But that starts from the draft. The strategy is COMPLETELY based on the expectation that our kids 24 and under will elevate the level of this team

King, Henry, Nas, Owens, Windy, Pou, Wilson, Collard, Hastie, Garcia, Arie, McLennan, Heath, Dow, Higgins, Clark, Byrnes will be the core of the next flag tilt, whether they are best 22 or part of an elite depth brigade (which I suspect will be the case for the likes of Dow and Clark)

Add on an arbitrary draft haul of Harvey Langford (mid), Sam Lalor (mid), Cooper Hynes (mid/fwd), Thomas Sims (fwd/ruck), Adrian Cole (key def), Lennox Hofmann (def), Elwood Peckett (mid/fwd)

That's a 24-player core, of which at least 15 have the potential to be a key part of a premiership tilt in my opinion. Add on the veterans in Row, Wilkie, Sinc, Hill, Steele, it's a high upside team

In 2025, we won't see the results, but if we can do something like Hawthorn have done then that would be enough. Play the kids, let them energise not only the club, but the entire comp. Let them build together and form an infectious bond that will draw other players to the club, like what Ginnivan and Watson have done. Like what Rozee, Butters, Duursma did in their first couple of years at Port Adelaide

A big free agent and a few good role players (like your Cummings, Perrymans etc. from this year's pool) would be the cherry on top

 

[Rogue Warrior]

I don’t see how trading Steele takes us forward. Trying to address our midfield issues by loosing our only mature reliable mid seems counterproductive. I don’t see any club paying overs for his services. At best we get a mid to late first rounder and if lucky an additional 2nd or 3rd rounder. Then as a result morale of the senior players would be sapped. Supporters would we be unhappy at losing our captain. And the halfwit AFL media would pile on.

Steele will be better when he has more help. It’s a big if, but if we get 2 A grade mids (likely through the draft) the midfield changes dramatically.

 

[Klaatu]

Losing Battle and trading Steele would be a good way to destroy the fabric of the club

As i was 1 of the 23,053 crowd that sat in Marvel watching that tripe, i've decided it's the only way to go build up quality draft assets to build a better side, i also don't get emotionaly attached to players any more i been a supporter/member since early 70's i want success players come and go supporters stick fat.

Sustained success is what we all want we need to build that from the draft and then add pieces once we achieve that from opposition clubs.

 

[akaifu]

Best 23 by Round 24 2025 (Bolded are the guys who I believe will be there when we are in contention):

FB Wilkie, Caminiti??, McLennan
HB Nas, Schoenmaker, Sinclair
C Wood, Phillipou, Hill (
HF Owens, King, Henry
FF Higgins, Sharman, Heath/Keeler??

F Marshall, Steele, Windhager

I/C Pick 5, Hastie, Butler, Wilson

Sub: Garcia/Clark (hopefully this rule doesn't exist long-term and we can have a fifth interchange)

Others: Pick 6, Second-rounder, Cole, Hofmann, Peckett, Webster, Byrnes, Stocker, Dow, Collard, Hotton, Van Es, O'Connell, Hall, Collard, Howard, Bonner?

 

[gringo2011]

I rate him just not highly enough for various reasons to cough up a first rounder.

We need to take this pick top the draft and nail it unless someone like LDU is an option where you get a 10 years star quality mid with a clean injury history for sure. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking around at the same time. Macrae types seem to make sense. because we could potentially land him cheap if they want to clear space from their cap.

We need to be finding cheap high end filler and drafting.

 

[The Punter]

Trade - spend too much capital
Draft - compromised F/S and Academies, doesn't work quickly enough
Free agency - can't get anyone to come to the club

I don't care how, as long as it happens, and I can totally understand why some don't buy the "we just need to go to the draft" road when it's far from guaranteed.

That's why I've been on the "we just need to take responsibility for our own success" bandwagon. Which is cultural.

 

[beside the seaside]

Yeah and I agree.

But landing one is very hard. You can’t rely on planning

I know we had a few out who would make us better.

But I’m seriously deflated after yesterday. It was a real genuine, wtf are we doing moment.

Love Battle. Love Steele.

But Battle was probably our best. Had it 24 times.

Yet Andrews impact was so much greater from his 18 touches.

Steele is a shadow of the 2020/21 AA.

I just don’t want to go down this road where we try and make finals with half the talent of everyone else.

Yeah we might blow the picks. But right now it’s like running on a hamster wheel. We know our ceiling. We need more than 1 good first rounder each year.

I’d seriously let Battle go. Trade Steele.

Bring in both Shiel and Macrae for more senior support and I’d absolutely do my due diligence on Oliver if a first rounder is attached.

We have to go all in on a draft. Tassie is coming and if we keep the path we are on, we will sink when Tassie dilutes the draft.

We'd love a bit of luck too. Someone to explode onto the scene from nowhere, like Garcia just becoming a massive gun over pre-season or Wilson suddenly becomes a midfield beast, Windy going to another level. Or Elwood Peckett from nowhere becomes an elite pickup.

I have faith in the coaches and list management, there has to be a plan to improve the midfield long term.

 

[stavro#4]

Just to be clear and transparent.

I spoke with 2 trainers I know pre game yesterday.

If Battle has Re-signed. It’s news to them and not something that had filtered out and around the club.

I posted as such in PM yesterday. So not sure there is some news to be waiting for.

It will come when it does - either way.

 

[beside the seaside]

Just to be clear and transparent.

I spoke with 2 trainers I know pre game yesterday.

If Battle has Re-signed. It’s news to them and not something that had filtered out and around the club.

I posted as such in PM yesterday. So not sure there is some news to be waiting for.

It will come when it does - either way.

Tony74 over on saintsational didn't seem to think he'd re-signed. Said we won't pay overs for him and he'll do what's best for his family.

 

[stavro#4]

Tony74 over on saintsational didn't seem to think he'd re-signed. Said we won't pay overs for him and he'll do what's best for his family.

There you go.

So it’s as I posted in June it seems.

For clarity - because there are a few Kunty types on here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Trade - spend too much capital
Draft - compromised F/S and Academies, doesn't work quickly enough
Free agency - can't get anyone to come to the club

I don't care how, as long as it happens, and I can totally understand why some don't buy the "we just need to go to the draft" road when it's far from guaranteed.

That's why I've been on the "we just need to take responsibility for our own success" bandwagon. Which is cultural.

Draft: Best result: A player might become a star and play for the next 12 years. Worst result : Washout.
Trade: Best result :You get a star player, and he continues to play at the expected level, 7 years. Worst result : starts going backward while still in his 20s and you spent 2 good draft picks on him.
Free Agency : Best : As for Trade , but you didn't have to use draft picks. Worst: Becomes useless while on long contract.

Trading is a sugar rush, and need to do it right.
One guy is not going to carry the team.
You will screw your cap if you trade for too many big names, and you will screw your list if you use all your draft picks on trades.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

We dodged a bullet not getting De Goey. Out for the season.

 

[_Maximus_12]

having a great backline matters less when you have a midfield that can win the ball from stoppage, a dynamic forward line and a defensive structure that can pin the ball in our front half. If you don’t agree with me, watch yesterdays game.

I love the way Battle plays, but fmd the pick 5 that’s attached to his departure is more important to our future than his stoic performances over another 6 years.

 

[saintkildaman]

Not necessarily a bad thing.

Not necessarily but in our current situation I can’t see how the potential positives justify parting ways with two of our leaders (and best players).

Our recent drafting has provided us with a decent young core to build around. Yes we’ve taken a step back this year, but we aren’t far off finals and should be competing for a 6-8 spot next year.

Our established players (Steele, Wilkie, Sincs, Roma, Battle etc) are the reason we’re not a bottom 4 side. We’ve seen how Melbourne and North fared in the past when they rid their list of experience for some extra picks, why would we risk bottoming out again?

Sure an extra first rounder or two sounds nice but we cannot compromise the development of our kids by throwing them to the wolves. Trading Steele would be ruthless.

IMO, we need the likes of King, Windy, Chito etc to take the next step and hope to have a quick bounce up the ladder. Will be a lot easier to attract elite talent if we’re competing for finals.

 

[saintvic]

Just wondering what you think we would get if we traded Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

?

 

[stavro#4]

Not necessarily but in our current situation I can’t see how the potential positives justify parting ways with two of our leaders (and best players).

Our recent drafting has provided us with a decent young core to build around. Yes we’ve taken a step back this year, but we aren’t far off finals and should be competing for a 6-8 spot next year.

Our established players (Steele, Wilkie, Sincs, Roma, Battle etc) are the reason we’re not a bottom 4 side. We’ve seen how Melbourne and North fared in the past when they rid their list of experience for some extra picks, why would we risk bottoming out again?

Sure an extra first rounder or two sounds nice but we cannot compromise the development of our kids by throwing them to the wolves. Trading Steele would be ruthless.

IMO, we need the likes of King, Windy, Chito etc to take the next step and hope to have a quick bounce up the ladder. Will be a lot easier to attract elite talent if we’re competing for finals.

People truly over estimate what it would do or say the impact of winning in the ass end of a dead season does.

For the record. 3 of the better/best trainers trainers at the club. They aren’t in our leadership group.

Most of the people at the club are the same ones who used to be there under Ratten and I was told we were like U10s barely talking to each other on the field.

An example to this folly of an idea is that Roo was arguably one of the hardest trainers I ever saw with arguably the highest standards I’ve seen. It Didnt really translate to that group under Richo.

What letting Battle and or Steele go does is makes us weaker immediately.

 

[jumperfan]

Just wondering what you think we would get if we traded Max King?

2 firsts given that he is contracted but there's no way any team is paying that for him at the moment.

 

[botts]

Just wondering what you think we would get if we traded Max King?

Nothing. Not worth thinking about, stupid to do it

 

[_Maximus_12]

Just wondering what you think we would get if we traded Max King?

Significantly worse as a football side.