List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

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It’s like clockwork in here.

Just maximise the draft hand, equalise the list across age and ability and have patience. There is no other way.

We are already fortunate that we have drafted well in the 2020s thus far, it’s a solid foundation to build on pre tassie coming in.

Don’t get caught up in comparing to the rest of the comp, literally doesn’t matter. AFL teams have zero consistency. Even great teams like Sydney or Geelong have only managed one premiership after many years of sustained success in the last decade or so. Good for them, they do a lot right.

Brisbane were a disaster half way through this season, Sydney were the unchallenged premiers. Hawthorn were shit and Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton were top 4. Saint win 4 of the games we lost by under a kick and we are challenging for finals. No point trying to predict where teams are at, even if they have exceptional lists and advantages on paper.

Maximise the draft hand. Cut the dead wood. Rinse, repeat. Get it right and the problem will change from quality of list to quality of development, to quality of coaching. Sure, we will have to take some risks, we may have to trade some good players, but no one got no where without taking risks.

Let me cook for a moment, and preface this as more of a point to myself then necessarily the readers here. The AFL is not a noble enough institution to warrant faith and supporter-ship of the highest regard. It is a deeply flawed competition and governance, turned front for gambling companies, chicken shit greed filled private school ‘for the good of game and country’ father son loving blotch addict produced costumed family friendly drive your toyota to aus kick and have a snag because you’re an Aussie legend facade bush league, with a storied and disturbing history (from First Nations treatment, to the DV numbers which spike after every loss) that has shown time and time again that it has simultaneously the upmost regard for the traditions it comes from and also zero regard for its traditions at all if the price is right (night time grand final, round zero, the newly rumoured wild card round).

We owe the AFL nothing, and yet it is such a unique cluster**** that we are proud of it, because we are Australian, and we’ll take our idiosyncrasies where we can get them. As a sport seperate from the organisation, it has its moments though, where it is a purely entertaining spectacle, and there is something to be cherished there. But in the scheme of things, saying the AFL has any sanctity left is oxymoronic, emphasis on the moron. Though patience runs thin for our tested supporters, I love the Saints, and we all want a flag dearly. But there is no such thing as a noble flag in this competition anymore (if ever). It’s a product and we’re the suckers, waiting for it to produce. My ultimate point being, think critically, and enjoy the sport for what it is, deeply flawed but not without immense value to us the fans. Again, I am mainly reminding myself of this here, though others might agree/disagree. The irony to me here is that as I write this, Dustin Martin announced his retirement.

This coming off season will really be telling, re: the direction and management of the club. We did great last off season, cut the dead wood, did well out of the draft, and brought in two young but experienced players (Henry, Dow). Rinse, repeat. Embrace the transience. That’s sports.
 
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All this place does is whine about how we have no good players then in the next breathe, suggest we should trade all our good players.
Hopefully we draft some really good kids so we can trade them on draft picks.
 

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Trying to add some positive perspective to this midfield discussion - Windhager and Phillipou have shown some really good signs and easily could explode next year or the following. Clark has made the team a lot better when he's played and should improve. Dow has been disappointing but will give him another chance because he's been injury-riddled. Steele isn't his AA self but has been better than last year. Henry looked great at times when thrown in there, has been sorely missed. Owens, who knows - I still have high hopes.

Not a premiership midfield clearly but there's actually more talent there than people realise. Add a first rounder and hopefully a free agent at some point, could be something special. It was necessary to move past Ross and Crouch at some point, but it probably came quicker than expected and was always going to be a big adjustment in the short term.
 
Where did he go with this?

He's mentioned it numerous times on the Gettable segment on the AFL website.
He started talking about Band 1 from Battle from like the second week of June.

Since then everyone has got on board that he is getting an offer that’s going to be around that mark.

Ralph Edmund Morris etc have all spoken about it too.
 
Trying to add some positive perspective to this midfield discussion - Windhager and Phillipou have shown some really good signs and easily could explode next year or the following. Clark has made the team a lot better when he's played and should improve. Dow has been disappointing but will give him another chance because he's been injury-riddled. Steele isn't his AA self but has been better than last year. Henry looked great at times when thrown in there, has been sorely missed. Owens, who knows - I still have high hopes.

Not a premiership midfield clearly but there's actually more talent there than people realise. Add a first rounder and hopefully a free agent at some point, could be something special. It was necessary to move past Ross and Crouch at some point, but it probably came quicker than expected and was always going to be a big adjustment in the short term.
The issue isnt so much what we have.

It’s a 2 fold issue about what we need and what the list demographic will be in a reasonable time frame to get there.

We need a gun midfielder/s.

We have missed out on those in free agency.
So if one becomes available your looking at a first rounder at trade time and weighing that up with are we positioned to contend?

Say we don’t land 1 and say we head to the draft. It will be 2026 before a gun midfielder potential plays a game after coming across.

That means that core group of: Sinclair Steele Marshall are 31.

Thats what needs to be considered and the conversation needs to be overlayed with Tassie coming in.

So we effectively have 2 drafts before they get raided.

Steele’s value only declines from here.
Battle looks like netting us p6 - so if he stays we need to weigh that up.

It’s a very tough situation. That’s why myself and others are in favour of going back a step or 2 and loading up now. So that we can avoid needing to hit the draft when Tassie arrives.
 
For all those wondering why Steele has lost his effectiveness. Let’s remember the game has changed over the past 2 years. Rule changes have sped the game up and reduce the impact of pure I side mids.

We have Steele, Crouch, Ross and Hunter who are all plodders. It is not a coincidence that Oliver, McRae, Tom Mitchell, Luke Parker, Nat Fyfe and Wines are struggling or have struggled recently.

Unfortunately, due to the way the game is played, we have seen the best of Steele already.
When the midfield won the contest against Essington Steele the "purely inside mid" kicked three goals.
We need to help him in the middle, not jettison him.
 

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If we're not asking for compensation for missing out on McKenzie during their shortsighted rolling back of the academies then wtf are we doing?

Absolutely criminal mismanagement that the club doesn't seem to care about?
The afl don’t care. They will just say it evens out by taking collard or some shit like that. On that note, wasn’t collard about to sign an extension? Gone real quite now
 
Where did I say trade Steele?

I said trade King. In my view both Kings are overrated and are Daniher only quality.

Get 2 firsts for him, that is at least four frdps, 3 probably top ten.

We lose Battle and King. Showed with decent ball supply what Coops and Hammer can do.

We have to be bold or we risk another 15 years of total nothingness.

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We won’t trade ming but I fear you’re right. I think both kings are good but I don’t see superstar and it’s a fair sample size now. Bing is also playing in front of a gun midfield so the Ming with kill them with a decent midfield seems a stretch.

The problem with trading him is we then need to run with what we have or draft another and wait years usually for a key to hit his straps. Worst of all would be to try and trade for another key forward, if we could find one he’d cost us every bit of what we’d get for ming.

Ming will get another contract and be a saint for life imo. Still having a good or perhaps very good key forward for another 10 years isn’t a bad result.

I think for several reasons if I was taking a flyer I’d trade romo. Age, the likely return and our ability to replace his ruck work make him an obvious choice imo.
 
Assuming the bottom 10 finish more or less as it is.

Knowing we are looking to split a first rounder either our own or the []Josh Battle[] FA compo pick.

Whose picks should we go after? I’m guessing we could net two picks in the teens for a pick 6/7
 
Assuming the bottom 10 finish more or less as it is.

Knowing we are looking to split a first rounder either our own or the []Josh Battle[] FA compo pick.

Whose picks should we go after? I’m guessing we could net two picks in the teens for a pick 6/7
In a hypothetical.

Dogs would have 13+14 if Smith and English leave (assuming they get band 1)

That’s what we should look at
 
North will pole vault past us when those already high draft picks are supported by even more plus start to attract FAs once they can see the star factor with Sheezel, Wardlaw and so on.
Nah. They're about to have their wings clipped again when Clucko takes another sabbatical for mental health reasons.
 
Battle update on Tradies apparently. Anybody listened to it? I can’t listen to Sam McLure anymore, too much floginess. You just know he’s going to go with Dusty to Gold Coast again.
 
The proposed contract is higher and longer then what Mackay's was reportedly. If it wasnt band 1 compensation there should be lawyers involved.
I would go as far as reporting the AFL to ICAC
 
I would go as far as reporting the AFL to ICAC

Not kidding, if he were to go now and get no compo then I would be very upset at the AFL double standards. If McKay was band 1 and pick 3. Sure the CBA has gone up for everyone but McKay was rumoured to be 750k where Battle is looking like 900k over 6 years. Would genuinely riot if they did St Kilda like that when we desperately need the high-end picks, even more so than North who are stacked with them.
 
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