List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[kingkingston]

I know it’s a different position and contracted v uncontracted but I do scratch my head when I see fantasia on the list and J carroll off it. I would have persisted with jack.

You need to think positional and not individually. Fantasia gets so much rubbish thrown his way but only because he doesn't score goals himself.

Fantasia was second for goal assists averaged on the team. It was his first full season back after injury. He will be better next season after a full pre-season. 20+ goals and 20+ assists would be a great return.

 

[SurreyBlue]

It's great to see us getting serious with list management and moving on all the list cloggers.

I don't buy the depth argument as a reason to hang onto Carroll. Had plenty of chances to prove he was capable, never did.

Our midfield lineup is deep enough. We've also got plenty of versatile players who could play in the middle when required.

Definitely not a list clogger. Every time he played midfield, he showed something. Look at his stats and position played. Can't agree with any of this at all.

 

[kreuze_missile]

We didn't want to offer him a contract and keep him on the list. It's as simple as that. Every club delists players, some get a second chance some don't. If the Eagles had any interest they would have picked him up in the pick swap deal for nothing.

He might get a year elsewhere. Why should we haggle about a player we don't want? Wish him all the best and move on.

Carlton tried to trade Carrol but there was zero interest from anywhere.

Might get a rookie spot somewhere, but more likely than not his AFL career is over.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

Carlton tried to trade Carrol but there was zero interest from anywhere.

Might get a rookie spot somewhere, but more likely than not his AFL career is over.

Giants are interested in him

 

[SurreyBlue]

Carlton tried to trade Carrol but there was zero interest from anywhere.

Might get a rookie spot somewhere, but more likely than not his AFL career is over.

Again - disagree. WC will pick him up as DFA. Put your money on it. They knew we were delisting......

 

[kingkingston]

It's great to see us getting serious with list management and moving on all the list cloggers.

I don't buy the depth argument as a reason to hang onto Carroll. Had plenty of chances to prove he was capable, never did.

Our midfield lineup is deep enough. We've also got plenty of versatile players who could play in the middle when required.

Don't think that was the reason. He didn't have a contract and I think he is heading home. The club knew this.

 

[El Topo]

That's a real turnaround from guys who were getting new contracts in 2022

 

[kreuze_missile]

Definitely not a list clogger. Every time he played midfield, he showed something. Look at his stats and position played. Can't agree with any of this at all.

I don't think I'm alone in my assessment given we just delisted him and none of the 17 other clubs had any interest in a trade.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Don't think that was the reason. He didn't have a contract and I think he is heading home. The club knew this.

To play WAFL..?

 

[SurreyBlue]

I don't think I'm alone in my assessment given we just delisted him and none of the 17 other clubs had any interest in a trade.

If it pleases you. Believe.

 

[AT97]

You need to think positional and not individually. Fantasia gets so much rubbish thrown his way but only because he doesn't score goals himself.

Fantasia was second for goal assists averaged on the team. It was his first full season back after injury. He will be better next season after a full pre-season. 20+ goals and 20+ assists would be a great return.

Perhaps he will and I’ll barrack for it, but i think he’s at the edge of the cliff and jack could have been given a little more time.

 

[Jimmae]

I don’t get the interest in Grainger B … his stats do not excite … Weideman I think is interesting could see him being turned into an effective defender …

I'm of the same view, just mentioning already mentioned names.

I've seen the Weid play CHB for essendon in the VFL. Perfect build for a tall defender, just isn't very good at football.

Would it work if we let him play at the ball a bit in the VFL and build up from there?

Wanganeen is one coming off Essendon's list that can definitely football.

 

[Bletch]

Current draft picks: 3, 38, 63, 68, 69, 72, 89 (total points: 2938)

List changes:
Out: 10 - Domanic Akuei (Delisted), David Cuningham (Delisted), Caleb Marchbank (Delisted), Jack Martin (Delisted), Alex Mirkov (Delisted), Matt Owies (Trade - WCE), Matt Kennedy (Trade - WB), Jack Carroll (Delisted), Matt Carroll (Delisted), Sam Durdin (Delisted)
In: 1 - Nick Haynes (GWS - UFA)
Uncontracted: 0
Retained SSP/MSD Players: 1 - Cooper Lord
Upgraded Rookie: 0

List status:
Primary - 31 (36-38)
Rookie - 4 (0-6)
Cat-B Rookie - 1 (0-2)
Total - 36 (44)

Free spots - 5 primary, 2 rookie, plus one Cat-B rookie

Note - Matt Duffy (Ireland) likely to take the free Cat-B rookie
Note 2 - Jordan Boyd (Rookie) needs to be upgraded, and will likely take one senior spot

Effective free spots - 4 primary, 3 rookie

As it stands, we can take 4 picks to the draft - 3, 38, 63, 68.

If we make 2 further cuts, we can take all 6 - 3, 38, 63, 68, 69, 72.

With the three delistings on 22-Oct, we now have 7 picks available at the draft. All remaining players are contracted. There is potential for adding a DFA in the upcoming DFA period (starting 1-Nov), as pick 89 is essentially useless in the draft (doesn't carry any points).

Those two delistings must come from Jack Carroll, Sam Durdin, and Matt Carroll, all who remain uncontracted. It can be any of these three, as it is limited by both (i) the maximum of 38 on the primary list; AND (ii) the maximum of 42 on primary+rookie (not counting Cat-B).

How we approach this will depend on what we intend to do with pick 38. "Pick Swap" trading opens tomorrow, so potentially, we could swap it out during that period (maybe for a future). Swapping it for an earlier pick will be difficult, as we don't have a lot of leverage to do so - unless we're prepared to move pick 3 down, which I think is highly unlikely.

There's a further opportunity to do a "live trade" of pick 38 on draft night. Including the option to trade it out when a bid comes in, and trade it back in afterwards (would likely lose some value, but not as much as option (i) below.

Or, we can just leave it. In which case:
(i) a bid comes in for Ben Camporeale before our pick 38 (it may not be 38 by then, but wherever it is). In this case, pick 38 will be used for matching Ben, and we'll get a bit left over, probably enough for another pick in the 60s, but that will be a bit of a waste.
(ii) we just use pick 38 on Ben anyway - unlikely!!
(iii) we use it on another player available at that pick, and match bids on Ben and Lucas with the remaining picks.

It's a bit of a lottery as to whether a bid will come in or not. It's around the mark for where Ben should go. So you'd think we'd have some sort of plan to offload that pick. But who knows. It was a strange trade for us to make.

Let's look at where pick 38 is likely to end up. I posted this earlier:


Situation now:
Brisbane: 27, 34, 42, 43, 49, 60, 66
Essendon: 28, 31, 40, 46, 53, 54, 65
Gold Coast: 39, 41, 51, 61, 70, 76, 78

I'm still of the opinion Brisbane will down-trade 27, but let's say there's still two of their picks that come in before our 38, and both of those get consumed by the Ashcroft bid. Similarly, let's assume Essendon's first two picks go the same way (again, they could potentially downtrade). But that makes 4 picks that are consumed before ours. However, there are also picks inserted for Ashcroft, Lombard, Marshall and Kako. So 4 - 4 = 0. 38 stays at 38! It will not come in higher than that. It may come in a pick or two lower (39 or 40).

At pick 38, it's very much in the danger zone for a bid. It will then get consumed for matching Ben. We'll then have a 3rd pick at 63 (which will come in by quite a bit - maybe around 55). If a bid comes in for Lucas, we also grab that, otherwise, we'll rookie him, and potentially take a 4th selection in the draft.

Effectively though, unless we offload 38, we've probably traded Kennedy for pick 63 (~55), which is a bit sad imo.

Anyway, we'll know soon enough what further changes we make to the list. I expect 1-2 more delistings, probably Sam Durdin, then Matt Carroll. I think we keep Jack.

Edit/Addition:
Matching Bid after 38
Ok, say we get to use our pick 38 on another player, no bid came in for Ben. Yay! But he gets a bid at pick 39. Do we have enough to pay with our remaining picks?

Pick 39 is 446 points. With the F/S discount, that comes down to 257 points to match.

Our next pick is 63. But as discussed in the previous section above, by the time that bid comes in, it will have come in to around pick 55. Maybe even a little lower. Pick 55 nets us 207 points, leaving 50 points still owing. We then go to the following pick, currently 68. That will have come in to maybe 58 or 59. Pick 59 is 158 points, so we'll easily cover Ben with those two picks, and have a couple of picks spare (in fact the extra points will earn us another late pick ~65).

Those remaining picks will be enough to cover a bid on Lucas at about pick 42. It's not likely he gets a bid that high, and if he does, we take a small deficit on our 2025 round 3 selection.

Does that mean we can use one or more of those late picks to bundle with 38 to move 38 higher?
Possibly. If we move 38 higher, we'd have to recalculate the whole kaboodle based on a following bid. e.g. we get 34 from Brisbane. What if a bid on Ben comes at 35? Without going through the whole steps above, in that case, the same two picks 63, 68 (~55/59) would be sufficient to match. We'd have enough left over to match a bid on Lucas at about 46 or so.

If instead, we took away say pick 69, and used it to combine with 38 to move up the order, we'd still be fine matching Ben with 63 and 68. But if a bid came in on Lucas before 57, we'd have to take a small deficit into 2025. Any bid after 57 we can match for free.

Edit/Addition 2 (following further delistings):
We made a total of three extra delistings on 22-Oct, this post has been updated to reflect those changes. Potentially will be updated again before the draft, if, for instance, we pick up a delisted free agent (which I think is likely). Parts of the original posted have been striked out rather than just deleted.

Threadmarked post has been updated.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Definitely not a list clogger. Every time he played midfield, he showed something. Look at his stats and position played. Can't agree with any of this at all.

The stats and position he played back up the statement that he wasn’t good enough.

Not sure why supporters continue to big up players on the peripheral. We won’t feel this delisting at all, same as Phlip the year before.

 

[Monty1978]

We get nothing for our departing players …. Carrol was ok depth and can play and is young … we better not get injuries or we are ****ed … lord played 2 decent games so did bootsma at the start

 

[BigFrizz36]

We're too nice in this regard... Everyone could see Mirkov would never be played, but because of his heart condition he was kept on as it wouldn't be seen as the nice thing to do. Martin being let go for nothing, same thing... giving Hawks a few years ago a freebie draft pick for nothing in return. Sam Durdin another retained for what purpose? just to make sure Russell finished the job?

Durdin has just been delisted?

We never gave Hawthorn a pick for nothing. We traded a future 2nd rounder in 2016 for picks 48, 66 and 70 (Macreadie, Williamson and Kerr). The Hawks needed a future 2nd to go with their pick 10 to get Jaeger O'Meara. The future 2nd ended with GWS who used it on Oscar Claverino with pick 33. So in effect we traded pick 33 in 2017 for picks 48, 66 and 70 in 2016. Some people though we could have got more. Pretty much everyone involved was ordinary.

 

[SurreyBlue]

The stats and position he played back up the statement that he wasn’t good enough.

Not sure why supporters continue to big up players on the peripheral. We won’t feel this delisting at all, same as Phlip the year before.

Phip was horrible who hardly played AFL. Not a good comparison at all.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Again - disagree. WC will pick him up as DFA. Put your money on it. They knew we were delisting......

They could have taken him along with Owies for absolutely nothing and didn't. At best he might get one year on their rookie list.

 

[Tjblues]

Token as in we show other list management teams that we are not easy beats in the trade arena. With 2 year trading of picks in next year 4th rounders start to become even more valuable and if we don't use it, means some other team doesn't absorb it to use either.

I think supporters worry far more about the perception of their list managers than the clubs do.

Given we were dealing with west coast I have no doubt that Jacks name came up.

In fact if I had to guess I’m sure any club who came knocking were told that he may be available. Not every player has value unfortunately. Jack is young, has proven somewhat capable, but is also limited.

 

[Stamos]

Reckon we pick up a DFA now. Pick 89 isn't worth points, so pretty useless to us.

I'd be surprised if we took a DFA prior to the draft (ie as a DFA).

To keep our list structure we can add 4 Senior Players.
Assume #3, #38, Ben Campo and at least the opportunity to match on Lucas Campo (or take someone else we like late). That's the 4.

Then maybe 1 or 2 in the Rookie Draft (again allowing for either Lucas possibility), and leaving 1-2 open Rookie spots for SSP.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Phip was horrible who hardly played AFL. Not a good comparison at all.

Philp was a better footballer and better athlete, although origami strength body . Either way. This a weird hill to die on you're basically saying you flat out refuse to believe Carlton knows what they're doing....

 

[Bletch]

I'd be surprised if we took a DFA prior to the draft (ie as a DFA).

To keep our list structure we can add 4 Senior Players.
Assume #3, #38, Ben Campo and at least the opportunity to match on Lucas Campo (or take someone else we like late). That's the 4.

Then maybe 1 or 2 in the Rookie Draft (again allowing for either Lucas possibility), and leaving 1-2 open Rookie spots for SSP.

Could take a DFA (33-3), go to 37-3 in the national draft with the four players as you describe above. Then move Fanta after the national draft to the rookie list (36-4) - no negative effect doing so, as he's already a free agent. Still have a rookie or PSD selection, and a free slot for the SSP (which we've already indicated we'll have, by inviting Durdin & Matt C to train for).

Edit: also, if no bid comes in for Lucas, we rookie him, and don't need to move Fanta.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Smart moves again by the club. Carroll was an ok player but we are going past ok players.

There was no interest in him over the trade period enough to get us anything remotely decent.

Hopefully he gets another opportunity but most likely it would only be on a rookie list if at all.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Footy's brutal.

Good player at the wrong club for his career.

Doesn't have a point of difference and won't be getting ahead of our first stringers.

He will be a good pick up somewhere

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wickzki]

Really hoped that with Kennedy being traded that retaining Jack Carroll would have been an absolute no brainer.

Am getting increasingly frustrated with this trade period after believing we'd done so well up to the point of getting pick 3.