List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[DangerousD]

Don’t think we could afford Houston.

We also shed some contracts that will put us in a great position this coming season. If Young too had of been taken by another club, then maybe Houston would have been in play. I believe that’s what we were holding out for and why Houston really thought he was a chance to get to us. As soon as it was clear there were no takers for Young, the door was shut.

We all want players to improve our club and Houston was just that. But we still need to work within the salary cap. There’s a huge difference between us and the Pies with big money earners. They definitely had more room in their cap and will have much more at the end of 2025 with several players to retire. While we will want to lock away TDK which will set us back plenty

As you touched on above, you dont think we could of afforded Houston, i think its bang on, if a player wants a club and the coach wants that player, yet the club aren’t interested, i bet its because we couldn’t afford it.

Your last paragraph requires more debate imo and its always mentioned, our big money earners, our stars, we need a heap of $$$$ to sign Weits and TDK, i feel its a bit of an excuse, i love all these players, i dont want to lose any of these players, but if other clubs around us are out performing us and dont have these big money players, its a bit of a red flag in regards to the players themselves or the coaching group of the club.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

:
Ollie will spend significant time in the back half in 2025. He was highly effective in the games he played there. For mine shares 7th defender role with Doc and Kempy, allowing some development across the team.

Him spending time back develops both him and potentially Binns, pick 3, Doc and the Camporeales get development time on the wing. Perhaps Walsh and/or Cerra gets minutes there too, even Lord for some exposure. Hell, even Charlie and Harry could push up there for cameos if Kemp and/or Moir step up.

Changes up the dynamics. He is not lacking physicality when compared to others playing the “seagull” role in recent years. Part of his perceived lack of physicality has more to do with the miles he runs each game day, always running on a half empty tank due to his constant effort presenting to contest after contest dmefensively.

I’ve seen Ollie bumped, pushed & muscled off the ball too many times.

He’s young & will build strength obviously, but until he does, I just don’t see it.

Is what he can bring off HB different to Doc, Boyd, Saad, Newman?

I don’t think the upside of him playing at HB now, is worth the defensive downside.

Why not leave him on the wing where he does his best work & his defensive weakness is less damaging, his offensive strengths accentuated.

Hoping he builds better strength through his upper body & hips, so he can play better defensively.

I’m expecting Lord will have much more time playing 2nd inside mid rotation. Kennedy & Carrol gone - his extraction work by hand looked great LY.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Cerra playing off a wing at times - pushing outside the contest - his kicking inside 50 needs to increase.

Love to keep Kemp forward - 3rd banana.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I’ve seen Ollie bumped, pushed & muscled off the ball too many times.

He’s young & will build strength obviously, but until he does, I just don’t see it.

What difference does this make whether he plays hb or wing?

Thought he looked more at home at hb late in the season and Walsh can be much more damaging off the wing.

 

[Coona Blues]

I’ve seen Ollie bumped, pushed & muscled off the ball too many times.

He’s young & will build strength obviously, but until he does, I just don’t see it.

Is what he can bring off HB different to Doc, Boyd, Saad, Newman?

I don’t think the upside of him playing at HB now, is worth the defensive downside.

Why not leave him on the wing where he does his best work & his defensive weakness is less damaging, his offensive strengths accentuated.

Hoping he builds better strength through his upper body & hips, so he can play better defensively.

I’m expecting Lord will have much more time playing 2nd inside mid rotation. Kennedy & Carrol gone - his extraction work by hand looked great LY.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Cerra playing off a wing at times - pushing outside the contest - his kicking inside 50 needs to increase.

Love to keep Kemp forward - 3rd banana.

I see Ollie playing the larger portion of every game under fatigue, leading to opinions like yours that he is intrinsically “weak”. He is still young, last pre season he added a degree of size to his frame. That size was run off him within weeks of the season kicking off. Running ~15km at high speed each week does not allow his body to develop and we will be having this conversation two, three or four years from now.

A hybrid role, with shared time in a less demanding role, in terms of ground covered will be highly advantageous. His efforts on a wing are pivotal for the team and will be required at times, but at the moment he and Acres are pencilled in week after week to bring that coverage and presentation.

A change up will benefit Ollie’s development and the team’s development preparing others to do the role if and when necessary. His superb game sense makes him a natural behind the ball, and you would find many aspects like his kicking efficiency would improve dramatically by not playing the majority of game time under fatigue.

Win/win for mine. Remember Newman was our oldest player before Haynes recruited and Saad is probably on the decline. We need to prepare for a seamless change over in our backline in the near future. High volume half backs are gold.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I’ve seen Ollie bumped, pushed & muscled off the ball too many times.

He’s young & will build strength obviously, but until he does, I just don’t see it.

Is what he can bring off HB different to Doc, Boyd, Saad, Newman?

I don’t think the upside of him playing at HB now, is worth the defensive downside.

Why not leave him on the wing where he does his best work & his defensive weakness is less damaging, his offensive strengths accentuated.

Hoping he builds better strength through his upper body & hips, so he can play better defensively.

I’m expecting Lord will have much more time playing 2nd inside mid rotation. Kennedy & Carrol gone - his extraction work by hand looked great LY.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Cerra playing off a wing at times - pushing outside the contest - his kicking inside 50 needs to increase.

Love to keep Kemp forward - 3rd banana.

Yep Kemp as 3rd tall forward needs to be tried out. He reads the play well yet is a bit too small to play 2nd KPD.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I don’t agree with comments from some on here that we somehow need to go backwards next year or that we need to focus on building for the future. If we don’t make the finals next year then Voss, Lloyd and possibly Austin will all be sacked. Also we have traded our 2025 first so finishing outside the 8 next year will be a disaster.

All the player losses this year were sad but necessary. Not one of them has the potential to cost us the chance to win a flag. If we get any one of Lalor, Smith, FOS or Draper to add to the Campo twins, a key defender at 38 and one of McMahon or DGB added as a rookie then the end of season would have been a success IMO.

The bigger query is on the whether the players and coaches have the desire and smarts (talent is not in doubt IMO) to be a successful team. By that I mean to win 15+ games for the season, play to a consistently high level within a game and the season generally, finish comfortably in the top 4 and be a genuine premiership contender.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

What difference does this make whether he plays hb or wing?

Thought he looked more at home at hb late in the season and Walsh can be much more damaging off the wing.

At HB he can be isolated.

He’s defensively responsible for his forward - can’t just let his man off the leash.

Oppo could play his man deep & Ollie could be exposed.

On a wing less so.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I see Ollie playing the larger portion of every game under fatigue, leading to opinions like yours that he is intrinsically “weak”. He is still young, last pre season he added a degree of size to his frame. That size was run off him within weeks of the season kicking off. Running ~15km at high speed each week does not allow his body to develop and we will be having this conversation two, three or four years from now.

A hybrid role, with shared time in a less demanding role, in terms of ground covered will be highly advantageous. His efforts on a wing are pivotal for the team and will be required at times, but at the moment he and Acres are pencilled in week after week to bring that coverage and presentation.

A change up will benefit Ollie’s development and the team’s development preparing others to do the role if and when necessary. His superb game sense makes him a natural behind the ball, and you would find many aspects like his kicking efficiency would improve dramatically by not playing the majority of game time under fatigue.

Win/win for mine. Remember Newman was our oldest player before Haynes recruited and Saad is probably on the decline. We need to prepare for a seamless change over in our backline in the near future. High volume half backs are gold.

Maybe we choose our games when Ollie plays wing.

It’ll mean Newman/Saad/Boyd will need to work more defensively.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

At HB he can be isolated.

He’s defensively responsible for his forward - can’t just let his man off the leash.

Oppo could play his man deep & Ollie could be exposed.

On a wing less so.

We saw the impact his lack of physicality had when he played on the wing this year... it is just as bad if not worse.

I'll reiterate, the games he played at hb, were probably his best for the season.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

We saw the impact his lack of physicality had when he played on the wing this year... it is just as bad if not worse.

I'll reiterate, the games he played at hb, were probably his best for the season.

We’ll see!

Hope Ollie has himself a strength regimen he’s invested in.

 

[marcmurphy3]

We saw the impact his lack of physicality had when he played on the wing this year... it is just as bad if not worse.

I'll reiterate, the games he played at hb, were probably his best for the season.

I think these days wing is one of the few positions where you still encounter alot of one on one contests. It's why guys like acres are so effective and becoming more the norm instead of smaller running types.

If you have a good team defense and pressure on the ball you rarely have to defend 1 on 1 in the backline. Also, whilst Ollie struggles to win contests he doesn't outright lose many either and that'll be enough given his role if he plays defence.

 

[JustaBattler]

The bigger query is on the whether the players and coaches have the desire and smarts (talent is not in doubt IMO) to be a successful team. By that I mean to win 15+ games for the season, play to a consistently high level within a game and the season generally, finish comfortably in the top 4 and be a genuine premiership contender.

It is a difficult equation for me to simplify because too many variables

1. No doubt injuries played a huge role in the ability of the team to perform to its best - which begs the question(s) about Russell and medical recovery regime AGAIN ( so exit Russell and Medico ) and
on the coaching group ( which has been left alone )
2. The above however combined with VFL performance underlines the lack of depth coming through

so it IS logical that teh Club invests in new youth via draft - I have no idea about how good or not the Campos are likely to be but two new kids at cheapo pick prices was a good start and then having 12 and 14 was a great 2 pick combo in a so called deep draft

so adding to depth tick box looking good

cutting perpetually injured players - another tick in the box
cutting never gunna make its from VFL - another good tick in the box

adding Haynes- a big MEH for me - Ive watched him play for years now as I follow both GW and Sydney closely - Haynes is cover for McGovern as an interceptor and maybe Kemp too - but he isnt a second KPD in any shape or form and he is injury prone and he is old

3. Then we see Houston available at high price- fair enough walk away and keep 12 and 14 as draft picks

BUT - selling them down to get only 1 pick- that is a high risk move for a team wanting to add depth ...

so my Houston V a high draft pick

and the Club went for the high draft pick - which means to me that investing in future balanced against the now took priority - fair enough...

I can see Carlton going backwards in 2025 quite easily - with question marks over fitness of Walsh/Cerra and bunch of others ...forget pre-season - your top players have to play most games during the year if not all..

Voss has never had tam continuity to play with so fingers crossed the team gives him some- because no doubt in my mind - he is under the gun big time.

 

[Blue__Balls]

At HB he can be isolated.

He’s defensively responsible for his forward - can’t just let his man off the leash.

Oppo could play his man deep & Ollie could be exposed.

On a wing less so.

The notion of the direct matchup isn't super relevant in the modern game.

If Ollie's at half back and his man decides to move deep, Ollie's either following him back into a crowded goalsquare where our other defenders can help cover him, or he hands off to a deeper teammate and picks up whichever forward comes up the ground instead.

It's a zone defense 95% of the time.

Also, Ollie has shown a fantastic willingness and workrate to run back and support our defenders with a third-man-up spoil. Every chance that having him in the back line means he helps prevent more 1-v-1 losses for others than he would lose himself anyway.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It is a difficult equation for me to simplify because too many variables

1. No doubt injuries played a huge role in the ability of the team to perform to its best - which begs the question(s) about Russell and medical recovery regime AGAIN ( so exit Russell and Medico ) and
on the coaching group ( which has been left alone )
2. The above however combined with VFL performance underlines the lack of depth coming through

so it IS logical that teh Club invests in new youth via draft - I have no idea about how good or not the Campos are likely to be but two new kids at cheapo pick prices was a good start and then having 12 and 14 was a great 2 pick combo in a so called deep draft

so adding to depth tick box looking good

cutting perpetually injured players - another tick in the box
cutting never gunna make its from VFL - another good tick in the box

adding Haynes- a big MEH for me - Ive watched him play for years now as I follow both GW and Sydney closely - Haynes is cover for McGovern as an interceptor and maybe Kemp too - but he isnt a second KPD in any shape or form and he is injury prone and he is old

3. Then we see Houston available at high price- fair enough walk away and keep 12 and 14 as draft picks

BUT - selling them down to get only 1 pick- that is a high risk move for a team wanting to add depth ...

so my Houston V a high draft pick

and the Club went for the high draft pick - which means to me that investing in future balanced against the now took priority - fair enough...

I can see Carlton going backwards in 2025 quite easily - with question marks over fitness of Walsh/Cerra and bunch of others ...forget pre-season - your top players have to play most games during the year if not all..

Voss has never had tam continuity to play with so fingers crossed the team gives him some- because no doubt in my mind - he is under the gun big time.

I think you're looking at the Houston thing the wrong way. By trading up to Pick #3 we're clearly looking to add another ELITE cog to our side. That's why you trade 12 and 14 for #3, because we want to get a look at an elite player not just young depth.

When considering why we chose Pick #3 over Houston the decision was pretty clear. Both give us an option at an elite player to add to our side, the difference being that one is a half back flanker and would be on close to $1m a year and the other is (likely to be) a midfielder and on a rookie wage.

I suspect it was more the cash and potentially the positional need (needing midfield pace over backline support) steered us down the path of Pick #3 over Houston, but what we were looking to add was an elite player - that's pretty clear.

 

[goreds]

We saw the impact his lack of physicality had when he played on the wing this year... it is just as bad if not worse.

I'll reiterate, the games he played at hb, were probably his best for the season.

So, you're saying with a full list to choose from, Ollie misses out on a starting spot??

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So, you're saying with a full list to choose from, Ollie misses out on a starting spot??

Go read my team post...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We’ll see!

Hope Ollie has himself a strength regimen he’s invested in.

Agreed. Been calling for it all year for him to bulk up a bit in the off season.

 

[koutashoulda1_1]

We chose a totally cooked version of Cincotta who was horrible and Kennedy as sub who was horrible. Dropped fit, form players who brought much needed pace and run for other fringe players who were not fit and brought no run at all.

Fisher and Dow had performed well in a big game just prior to finals against Melbourne, a game that was practically a final so the not big game players goes out the window.

Voss did exactly the same thing this year. Went back to his favorites despite slowing the team down and them not having fitness or form. The only difference was we got smashed instead of scraping out two wins. Wins which came mostly because both opposition kicked horribly for goal.



A lot of people blinded by winning a couple of finals. If 2023 was successful then the bar most certainly is low. We would have been marginally better with more pace. My opinion won't change on that. The last two seasons, every time we inject even a little pace into the team it improves significantly. We picked the slowest side we could for finals, struggled through two finals, won with a lot of luck involved and were outpaced in the prelim. Melbourne and/or Sydney don't have a mare in front of goal in 2023 and there would be more people agreeing with me.

Voss is proving that when it comes to finals, he falls back to his 'safe' options. Rather than sticking with players who bring improvement to the side and have good performances under their belt he has proven last year and this year that he falls back to his safe options. I would definitely call that choking. That and being afraid to play the young players all season. It wreaks of fear poor confidence.

The fact that Voss has this mantra of "finals are different" wreaks of fear. The idea that finals are different is BS. They are different for the first 10 minutes because everyone goes super hard. Fundamentals are the same. Game is the same.

I don't trust Voss to select the team well each week and I certainly don't trust him to get it right come finals. He's too reliant on favorites/players he rates at the expense of team balance and form/fitness. He's proven this over and over again. It's a weakness in his coaching.

I've gone over it before, the selections throughout the season and particularly in this and last years finals series being poor. They took the pace out of the team. They took away the run off half back and in the middle. Cuningham is the other selection which we got wrong in 2023. He was probably our best defensive half forward and we got smashed off the half back line. In the end it's up to the coach to pick a side that is fit, has form and has a really good team balance and he's failed to do that because he can't stop himself picking his favorites.

The brissy team he captained was a brutal finals outfit that was happy for Port to win minor premierships. I imagine he's running the same logic here.

I agree that we look more positive with some oacein the side. I don't think his reverting to bogger bodies spells fear tho, rather his being a bit conservative. Ollie and Cowan got a good crack this year, which I see as his favouring contested players. Finals are more contested so fine. There us more turnover too, so give him a tick there.

I think where he goes wrong is that, while statistically more contested, this is due to higher pressure. More mistakes, less room, more contests as a result. To be a high pressure side though (so Step 1) you simply need pace to move the zone and swoop on ground balls.

I think his tactics are great for finals, but that he confounds contest and pressure. Speedy playerswould also allow us to be less battered and bruised through the HandA portion of the season.

Cotts and Fogarty were injured for long periods. Docherty all season. There goes all the pace and pressure we wouldve needed. This spells the difference I think.

Lord is quicker, sure, but doesnt play those roles. Cant recall Binns being tried on HHF? Carrol a bit quicker but struggled at HHF. Nobody fills the Fogarty role when he's out, maybe Durdin, but he has a paper maché shoulder so no go.

The other side of things is pace forcing oppos to be accountable. Moir seems quick, Williams is lightning. Neither seemed defensively accountable but they can spread the opposition. I'm glad that Moir hasnt been thrown to the wolves tho, and will be surprised if Williams ever gets his body right.

I think Voss is working with what he's got, making understandable decisions, but needs to have some depth in pressure and pace up forward and ideally always one of the same at HB. Maybe this stops him bashing up the players so much during the season too.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[koutashoulda1_1]

Think bringing in a bunch of underdone players and resting Kennedy was a gamble which didn't pay off. Ideally we have our best players all fit and firing come September...that wasn't available to us this year.

Biggest issue for mine still is our structures and gameplan, not the personnel choices. When forced to kick to Kemp as our main target, we showed that we can have dynamic ball movement. A good coaching team will make us look even more dangerous when we have Charlie and Harry back int he side...not back to one dimension.

We have the cattle to have good forward movement, it's a sub-optimal gameplan that is the issue.

Not sure where you are coming from here tbh. Brissy were on a winning streak and cherry ripe, we were on a losing streak and hanging together with bandaids. Was never going to happen.

Literally think we have the least capable delivery into F50 in the league. We had no pressure forward available either. Also was basically locked in our D50 for the first half.

This is a personnel issue (F50 delivery) more than anything, possibly a training issue too. Hopefully skills are a focus over the break. Down back we did great all year, just that defensively we didnt ask our midfield to help out much, preferring them to position to be more attacking. This allowed us to be a great turnover team most of the year. Little bit foolsgoldy tho imo.

Hopefully Boyd finds form again, Doch gets back to serviceable, and Haynes frees up Weiters a bit. With these three kicking, we will have a good switch option and force the forward pressure teams back a bit allowing us to exit D50. Houston wohkdve been great, tho glad we didnt spend up here. Weiters is a great interceptor and kick, just needs to be 1v1 instead of 1v3. No trust in confidence players like McGovern to play this role consistently.

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[LanceRomance]

Kind of wish we had Blaine Boekhorst

Blaine Boekhorst

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.9

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.6

3star

on the list.

Decent winger.

 

[Beyond Blue]

It is a difficult equation for me to simplify because too many variables

1. No doubt injuries played a huge role in the ability of the team to perform to its best - which begs the question(s) about Russell and medical recovery regime AGAIN ( so exit Russell and Medico ) and
on the coaching group ( which has been left alone )
2. The above however combined with VFL performance underlines the lack of depth coming through

so it IS logical that teh Club invests in new youth via draft - I have no idea about how good or not the Campos are likely to be but two new kids at cheapo pick prices was a good start and then having 12 and 14 was a great 2 pick combo in a so called deep draft

so adding to depth tick box looking good

cutting perpetually injured players - another tick in the box
cutting never gunna make its from VFL - another good tick in the box

adding Haynes- a big MEH for me - Ive watched him play for years now as I follow both GW and Sydney closely - Haynes is cover for McGovern as an interceptor and maybe Kemp too - but he isnt a second KPD in any shape or form and he is injury prone and he is old

3. Then we see Houston available at high price- fair enough walk away and keep 12 and 14 as draft picks

BUT - selling them down to get only 1 pick- that is a high risk move for a team wanting to add depth ...

so my Houston V a high draft pick

and the Club went for the high draft pick - which means to me that investing in future balanced against the now took priority - fair enough...

I can see Carlton going backwards in 2025 quite easily - with question marks over fitness of Walsh/Cerra and bunch of others ...forget pre-season - your top players have to play most games during the year if not all..

Voss has never had tam continuity to play with so fingers crossed the team gives him some- because no doubt in my mind - he is under the gun big time.

Sorry I should have been clearer…I can definitely see us going backwards in 2025 (and heaven help those at the club if we do), but I just don’t think the moves the club have made during the trade period are indicative of that.

 

[Beyond Blue]

The brissy team he captained was a brutal finals outfit that was happy for Port to win minor premierships. I imagine he's running the same logic here.


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The Brissy team he captained to a hatrick was also built around a boardroom by the AFL with more list management concessions than any other team in the history of the game.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Not sure where you are coming from here tbh. Brissy were on a winning streak and cherry ripe, we were on a losing streak and hanging together with bandaids. Was never going to happen.

Literally think we have the least capable delivery into F50 in the league. We had no pressure forward available either. Also was basically locked in our D50 for the first half.

This is a personnel issue (F50 delivery) more than anything, possibly a training issue too. Hopefully skills are a focus over the break. Down back we did great all year, just that defensively we didnt ask our midfield to help out much, preferring them to position to be more attacking. This allowed us to be a great turnover team most of the year. Little bit foolsgoldy tho imo.

Hopefully Boyd finds form again, Doch gets back to serviceable, and Haynes frees up Weiters a bit. With these three kicking, we will have a good switch option and force the forward pressure teams back a bit allowing us to exit D50. Houston wohkdve been great, tho glad we didnt spend up here. Weiters is a great interceptor and kick, just needs to be 1v1 instead of 1v3. No trust in confidence players like McGovern to play this role consistently.

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if it's personnel, why did it look better when Charlie and McKay weren't in the side? When we only had Kemp as a target, the team showed that if forced, they can find leading targets i50.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

if it's personnel, why did it look better when Charlie and McKay weren't in the side? When we only had Kemp as a target, the team showed that if forced, they can find leading targets i50.

Against two of the sh***est sides in the AFL is why.

 

[goreds]

Go read my team post...

Sure thing, that would be in the https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2025-best-23-emergencies-rolling.1387405/ thread, yes???