A different view - Craig and the Club

[Carmo]

Let me get this straight. You're arguing FOR Craigie here, right?

Yes indeed I was arguing for craigie. As I said in a post last week. The crows don't change or compromise from their game because of the message it sends to the players about the standards you have and the circumstances in which they can change. You DO NOT want to send the signal that its ok to drop standards - EVER, you DO NOT want to send the message that its ok to do this in 95% of circumstances.

I also recommend when assessing a sides form don't use week to week indicators, look at longer term ones. I said that Ports form would continue as though they'd never had that win against the crows and look what happened there. I said crows would go better, I didnt think they'd win because they were still a little inexperienced and trying to execute their gameplan with that is too difficult and because Carlton are in good form. But look, they came damn close to winning. Should be a very good chance next week - make sure we keep the fast guys in the side!

 

[Elite Crow]

Any analysis of Craigs performance last night must include why wasn't Judd tagged in the first quarter.

 

[Carmo]

I was just about to say - that is not a point in his favour.

A symbolic example of what people here are defending him for: when Richard Douglas, whom I'm sure we can now class as an experienced player, does what he did tonight - how can that be anyone but Neil Craig's fault? This kind of rubbish has been tolerated from Richard Douglas for the entire time he's been on the list. It was tolerated from Perrie, it was tolerated from Birdman, it's now tolerated from Reilly, Symes, Knights and whoever else Neil is in love with. It hasnt been stamped out. Why are we surprised when Douglas handballs 15 metres backwards at crunch time in a game? That was vintage Richard Douglas. Why are we surprised when Kurt Tippett doesnt have the presence of mind to soccer the ball off the ground on the outer wing in the dying stages? Why are we surprised when the captain gets caught holding the ball when he should have pumped it forward 60 metres.

The sad part is we hand out best and fairests to players like Richard Douglas.

That proves, in part, what Neil rates highly at our football club.

There's no Roo, McLeod, Edwards or Goodwin anymore to pacify his arrogant, Germanic, execution-obsessed gameplans.

He is delusional, over introspective, and has developed a mentally frail team of crowbots with no ability to think on their feet.

Douglas made a mistake.....OMG!.....OMG!....OMG!.....I didn't know there were players in AFL these days that don't make a mistake all game every game. We need a new category on the stats sheets - perfect players!!

There were plenty of mistakes by players on both teams, in fact I think I even saw a collingwood player make one in about round 10 2009 i think it was and geelong in prelim final in 2007.

Amazingly, Craig, despite his obvious hopelessness, coached the side to wins against 4 of the top 6 late in the season last year and in the end was unlucky for it not to be 6 out of 6 and now he's got the team back from 5 goal deficit against a team touted to be vrry good this year, the hawks and almost pulled off a win against carlton who is travelling well.

It must be luck - not skill - that these things happen, I mean in the ultra professional world of afl, with things analysed by batteries of coaches and experts, it must just be LUCK that they win these games. Even more amazing how he's managed to finish in the finals all those season but one, must have had a REALLY good run of luck there.....

 

[Wood_Duck]

Any analysis of Craigs performance last night must include why wasn't Judd tagged in the first quarter.

I doubt we have anyone good enough to tag Judd.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Douglas made a mistake.....OMG!.....OMG!....OMG!.....I didn't know there were players in AFL these days that don't make a mistake all game every game. We need a new category on the stats sheets - perfect players!!

There were plenty of mistakes by players on both teams, in fact I think I even saw a collingwood player make one in about round 10 2009 i think it was and geelong in prelim final in 2007.

Amazingly, Craig, despite his obvious hopelessness, coached the side to wins against 4 of the top 6 late in the season last year and in the end was unlucky for it not to be 6 out of 6 and now he's got the team back from 5 goal deficit against a team touted to be vrry good this year, the hawks and almost pulled off a win against carlton who is travelling well.

It must be luck - not skill - that these things happen, I mean in the ultra professional world of afl, with things analysed by batteries of coaches and experts, it must just be LUCK that they win these games. Even more amazing how he's managed to finish in the finals all those season but one, must have had a REALLY good run of luck there.....

I will give you some leeway here on the basis that you appear to be about 6 years old.

 

[Elite Crow]

I doubt we have anyone good enough to tag Judd.

Robert Shirley

 

[ftmch]

now this is the shittest troll.

without even mentioning that I think Vader's dumbassed call about him being the 2nd best coach in the league preceded your join date.

what's it like living in a world where join date = credibility?

go get some fresh air son!

 

[juice]

I would have thought having the second highest coaching winning percentage out of all the current coaches (not including C Scott) is somewhat of a success. I know our finals record isnt fantastic but maybe we didn't have the talent or the luck you need sometimes to go deep.

No need to be a rude arseh*le about it. Just offering a different opinion on something. Just sick of all of the negativity about everything on here i guess. Its good to see threads like the one on walker having a good game and the one on Smith and L Thompson.

Maybe it is the nature of online forums; People like you come on here only to vent to make yourself feel that little bit better without offering anything constructive.

Facts are RTW that football is about premierships and we haven't won one for 12 seasons now. If you're happy with a coaches will/loss ratio and making the finals thats great. I want to see premierships. Collingwood won in 1990, contested two grand finals in the early 2000's and now 10 years later won another. that's what i want to see. i'm not happy with mediocrity and if we're being satisfied with a coaches win loss ratio and making finals thats that. if neil craig was in charge of any other club i don't think he would still be coaching. facts are he hasn't taken us any further than gary ayres did. i was a fan of Craigs but i now look at it different, he's had his time, he unfortunately should have won a flag in 05/06 but for a variety of reasons didn't. i don't feel like we're improving, i feel like we have a game plan which is obvious to other clubs. last night Carlton should have blown us away, don't think we worked our way into the match they just couldn't kick straight. my concern is port beat us last week then the suns beat port!

 

[Reykjavik]

Sorry to intrude folks, ignore if you like just thought I'd put a outside perspective in.

Have always admired Neil Craig, he rarely seems ruffled and is clear on what he is trying to do. He reminds me a bit of Ernie Merrick at Melbourne Victory and though he's gone now two championships came too.

I cannot understand that people aren't prepared to look at the fact that he's basically lost a whole generation of elite players and lost many more to injury at the start of the season. The query shouldn't be why you have lost but rather why you have been so competitive. You have never really bottomed out which is commendable and Craig is now going through the difficult process of changing the wheels on the bus while the bus is still in motion.

Patience is required now - to get games into the likes of Otten, Dangermouse, Walker, Sloane, Davis etc etc and then the consistency of effort can return. You have the makings of a premiership list here if you'd only calm down long enough to see it, and in Craig I see some Malthouse too in that I think he can adapt and come again better than ever.

Premiership in the next 4 years if you stick with him. Bookmark it.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Sorry to intrude folks, ignore if you like just thought I'd put a outside perspective in.

Have always admired Neil Craig, he rarely seems ruffled and is clear on what he is trying to do. He reminds me a bit of Ernie Merrick at Melbourne Victory and though he's gone now two championships came too.

I cannot understand that people aren't prepared to look at the fact that he's basically lost a whole generation of elite players and lost many more to injury at the start of the season. The query shouldn't be why you have lost but rather why you have been so competitive. You have never really bottomed out which is commendable and Craig is now going through the difficult process of changing the wheels on the bus while the bus is still in motion.

Patience is required now - to get games into the likes of Otten, Dangermouse, Walker, Sloane, Davis etc etc and then the consistency of effort can return. You have the makings of a premiership list here if you'd only calm down long enough to see it, and in Craig I see some Malthouse too in that I think he can adapt and come again better than ever.

Premiership in the next 4 years if you stick with him. Bookmark it.

He couldn't do anything even with the elite players.

And don't compare him to Merrick and Malthouse please. They have silverware.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Sorry to intrude folks, ignore if you like just thought I'd put a outside perspective in.

Have always admired Neil Craig, he rarely seems ruffled and is clear on what he is trying to do. He reminds me a bit of Ernie Merrick at Melbourne Victory and though he's gone now two championships came too.

I cannot understand that people aren't prepared to look at the fact that he's basically lost a whole generation of elite players and lost many more to injury at the start of the season. The query shouldn't be why you have lost but rather why you have been so competitive. You have never really bottomed out which is commendable and Craig is now going through the difficult process of changing the wheels on the bus while the bus is still in motion.

Patience is required now - to get games into the likes of Otten, Dangermouse, Walker, Sloane, Davis etc etc and then the consistency of effort can return. You have the makings of a premiership list here if you'd only calm down long enough to see it, and in Craig I see some Malthouse too in that I think he can adapt and come again better than ever.

Premiership in the next 4 years if you stick with him. Bookmark it.

Agree with everything in this post.

He couldn't do anything even with the elite players.

A hand full of elite players does not make a team. Over the years we have never had a full spread across the ground. Always had weaknesses, whether it be poor forwards, poor rucks, lack of tall defenders, no inside mids etc. Right now Adelaide have potential 200+ gamers all over the ground. In terms of a bright future, Adelaides list is very healthy.

And don't compare him to Merrick and Malthouse please. They have silverware.

Take out Malthouses flags from WC (Stevie Wonder could have coached them to a flag or 2) and you have 10 years of coaching the magpies for zero silverware, and a premiership in his 11th year.

 

[Mego Red]

his finals record is shit, and we haven't contended in 5 years.

his record is almost as shit as this troll, and I only hold back because there is a bigger fraud coming up behind you.

you enjoy that day now

It is not a troll just because someone disagrees with you, you clown.

We contended two years ago. We we the hottest side in the comp and threw it away against Collingwood. His finals record is mediocre and his time at the Crows is up, but that doesn't change the fact that he cops a ridiculous amount of rubbish in relationship to his overall record.

 

[VSTone]

I might be setting myself up to be shut down or something here but I am sick of the criticism dished out on this forum towards Neil Craig. Now look, I am not Neil Craig's number one supporter by any means, but the man has to be cut some slack.

the way Neil coaches and sees the criticism as completely unwarranted.


Thoughts?

in the pre-season we were sold by the club and it's coach to expect
improvement...regimented conditioning / chalk and cheese to last year /
tweaking of game style - no slow ball movement / plan a & plan b /
good defense - frontal pressure / team game & competitive attitude /
better on fun / marked by actions / recover ground lost of previous year and finals expected...

so far it's all been pissing into the fan and it is now coming back at them...who couldn't expect the supporters to be in a questioning mode...
and then have to accept excuses put forward for failure especially last week agst the power... it's weak... and not to be tolerated...and needs to be addressed one way or the other...

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/audio_neil-craig-taylor-walker-will-not-be-sidelined_100605

...get back to it...and good luck...

so - not a shut down, just a back at ya - fan style!

 

[Allbetsroff]

It is not a troll just because someone disagrees with you, you clown.

We contended two years ago.

No, no we didn't.

 

[Crow-mo]

Thank you for quoting my point and then proving it.

lol. was that too subtle? gosh.

 

[Crow-mo]

It is not a troll just because someone disagrees with you, you clown.

you are as critically demanding as today/tonight researcher.

We contended two years ago. We we the hottest side in the comp and threw it away against Collingwood. His finals record is mediocre and his time at the Crows is up, but that doesn't change the fact that he cops a ridiculous amount of rubbish in relationship to his overall record.

you're not so stupid as to believe we contended 2 years so lay off the insincere pretense. we won 1 final (at home) against the worst finals this decade and shouldn't have even been there.

ps. you can ****ing buy dinner as punishment for this posturing.

 

[Crow-mo]

No, no we didn't.

Kristof is struggling with the realisation that he was wrong about Craig, and is trying to swim to shore little by little.

he's now accepted he was wrong, and is arguing to mitigate by how much.

 

[Caramelas13]

7 years.

If the team isn't good enough, that is his fault.
If the team is too young, that is his fault.
If the gameplan doesn't work, that is his fault.
If the players aren't talented, that is his fault.

It isn't like he is suffering from the recruitment actions of a previous coach, he has had 7 years and the team is getting worse, not better.

7 years, and no success, making finals is not success, having guys like Roo, Goodwin, Macca and Edwards in their prime and failing to win a premiership is not success, it is failure, something Neil Craig knows all about as a senior coach.

That said, Neil Craig is a nice guy, I wish he would be a premiership coach, or could, but unfortunately for the Adelaide Crows who have seemed to have forgotten this, it isn't about being nice, it is about winning the premiership or showing progress towards winning one, and Neil Craig has failed to do either.

We keep hearing about this young players that are going to be really good for years this has happened, but they never come good and once upon a time people were saying 2010 was our year to make a run at a flag, then it became 2011 and now people are saying 2013. This shit will just keep happening, I think it is fairly obvious that the way the Crows are going about it, the way they have gone about it for years just doesn't work.

They are doing it wrong and they don't even care to acknowledge that, arrogance without justification.

Spot on mate. Beautifully said!

 

[anthc]

Douglas made a mistake.....OMG!.....OMG!....OMG!.....I didn't know there were players in AFL these days that don't make a mistake all game every game. We need a new category on the stats sheets - perfect players!!

There were plenty of mistakes by players on both teams, in fact I think I even saw a collingwood player make one in about round 10 2009 i think it was and geelong in prelim final in 2007.

Amazingly, Craig, despite his obvious hopelessness, coached the side to wins against 4 of the top 6 late in the season last year and in the end was unlucky for it not to be 6 out of 6 and now he's got the team back from 5 goal deficit against a team touted to be vrry good this year, the hawks and almost pulled off a win against carlton who is travelling well.

It must be luck - not skill - that these things happen, I mean in the ultra professional world of afl, with things analysed by batteries of coaches and experts, it must just be LUCK that they win these games. Even more amazing how he's managed to finish in the finals all those season but one, must have had a REALLY good run of luck there.....

If the Hawks kicked straight in the first half they would have rolled us, and if Carlton had kicked straight we would have gone down by 5-10 goals, bad kicking from the opposition has masked a few problems imo.

Craig is a poor matchday coach, and they dont normally take teams to flags

 

[feenix67]

I found it interesting to listen to Gary Ablett Jnr after they beat Port yesterday.

Words to the effect of "We knew if we stuck to our structures and gameplan then we could get back into it".

Who would have thought, eh Pete?

 

[Bicks]

I doubt we have anyone good enough to tag Judd.

Last I heard Judd's "nemisis" Rob Shirley was playing for Ainslee in the ACT!!!! Pity we didn't have him yesterday!!!

 

[jenny61_99]

Last I heard Judd's "nemisis" Rob Shirley was playing for Ainslee in the ACT!!!! Pity we didn't have him yesterday!!!

It's Ainslie.

 

[sbenno]

LOL @ people looking for Robert Shirley to come back. Seriously, one week we're too old, the next we want the old players back. Good tagger, but we don't need him back.

Reilly could have done some kind of a job if NC had told him to tag Judd. Showed last year he was a capable tagger.

Also, with regards to the criticism of Craig, there are very good reasons to be critical. While endeavour wasn't an issue this week, the prior two weeks the players barely bothered to show up. If this was the case with only 1 or 2 players, you might think "oh, Danger is having a couple of off weeks" or something similar, but when it's 22 players (ok, 20, discounting Rutten and Thompson), you have to question those responsible for motivating the side. The primary candidate is the Coach, with the secondary candidate being the captain. I'm giving vB a few weeks to get to know the captaining game, he's new at it, but for a coach of 7 years, being unable to motivate your side to even put in is atrocious.

 

[Elite Crow]

I don't think anyone is seriously calling for Shirley to come back. As for not tagging Judd, that is just inexcusable. I watched the first qtr again yesterday. Judd had Doughty run with him for about 5 minutes during the middle of the quarter. Then he was left alone again. The amount of times Judd had 2-3 meters space between and a Crows player at the centre bounce was amazing. At one bounce, he was on one side and Reilly the complete opposite. The result Judd 12 disposals and a major influence on Carltons 1st qtr lead.

The second point about our start to the game is spot on as well. You reckon we could come out firing and try to at least lay a tackle. How can we not turn up to play?

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Back on the Thread topic

I certainly hold high expectations on this playing group however my 2011 expectations are measured and I do agree with the thought that too many supporters expect too much too quickly from this group.

The general thoughts of most experts is that you need to get 50 games into players before they start to get control and consistency into their game at an AFL level.

With this in mind and considering the likes of Davis, L Thompson, Walker, Sloane, Otten, Danger, Jaensch, Smith, Henderson, Jacobs, Sellar, Cook, Talia, Petrenko and Martin have all played less than 50 games its difficult NOT to predict some inconsistency over the next 12 months.