A few questions about this great game....

[finders]

"The northern states (Queensland, NSW) gravitated towards rugby, the rest towards AFL"

NB: Our game has never been called the AFL its official Name is Australian Football the AFL (at the moment the custodian of the game) is a League not the whole sport!
Only about 700 players play AFL the thousands of other players play Australian Football in thousands of Leagues in Australia and around the world.
Its the AFLs marketing spin that has led to people believing our game is AFL it has also let soccer steal our name by renaming their game australian football which is isnt.!

 

[FootyJunkie]

"The northern states (Queensland, NSW) gravitated towards rugby, the rest towards AFL"

NB: Our game has never been called the AFL its official Name is Australian Football the AFL (at the moment the custodian of the game) is a League not the whole sport!
Only about 700 players play AFL the thousands of other players play Australian Football in thousands of Leagues in Australia and around the world.
Its the AFLs marketing spin that has led to people believing our game is AFL it has also let soccer steal our name by renaming their game australian football which is isnt.!

Yeah... it's like a freshman high school gridiron team saying that they play NFL.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

....sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[cos789]

I am no expert in the area, but comments like that are generalisations and incorrect. Australian football was once a significant presence in New South Wales and Queensland, up until the late 19th and early 20th century. At this point, certain people with influence (people who controlled what sports were played in schools, what sports were played on fields etc.) decided that the 'colonial game' was not for them and that they would play the game/s from the received from the British empire.

Because of the wealth existing in the colonies , the first modern style community football clubs were developed in Australia playing to the rules suggested by various colonials. This football was immediately popular and soon played to (relatively) large crowds. It spread to the other colonies quite quickly and was taken up with much the same fervor. Such was the drawing power of the game, the first league was inter-city including a team from Geelong (and nearly Ballarat). Games were played against Britain and the other colonies. At it's height the Australasian Football Council oversaw football carnivals with teams from all states of the newly formed Australia and NZ.
The first problems arose early when the British Lions reneged on a promise to play return matches of colonial rules in London. When the Waratah rugby club changed to colonial rules because "it was a more attractive game" the English who still controlled Sydney (as opposed to the free settler states) first changed the rules of rugby (to be more attractive) then banned colonial rules games from being played in enclosed grounds thus depriving the clubs of a source of revenue. Later, the schools in NSW and Qld were directed to play rugby in schools. This was a major blow but "Australian Rules" as the SMH now called the game was still in the background in NSW and Qld. The advent of television and sporting saturation of the dominant code then hid the game from the public's view. Then of course we have the "revival" whereby television became national and then leagues became national, then Pay TV gave access to world sports. Now with internet streaming Australian Football is looking globally.

 

[cos789]

Yeah this, not sure if you were the one who said it but I remember someone talking about this. It's like the US, certain areas trend towards certain sports more. Hockey is not popular in the warmer states, Texas is definitely a football state, St Louis and Boston are mostly baseball etc.

Not quite the same situation as Australia. Weather does play a part in the selection of some sports like ice hockey but it's more the case that the USA is a big country with 50 states. it's not really practicle to have 50 NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL and NSL teams each. So big cities gravitate to what's available. Of course the biggest cities do have representation across the sporting codes.
American Football is a relatively modern addition to the sporting landscape coming from a modification of rugby.

 

[cos789]

"The northern states (Queensland, NSW) gravitated towards rugby, the rest towards AFL"

NB: Our game has never been called the AFL its official Name is Australian Football the AFL (at the moment the custodian of the game) is a League not the whole sport!
Only about 700 players play AFL the thousands of other players play Australian Football in thousands of Leagues in Australia and around the world.
Its the AFLs marketing spin that has led to people believing our game is AFL it has also let soccer steal our name by renaming their game australian football which is isnt.!

Actually it's just "football" but of course it needs an adjective to distinguish it from the likes of Cambridge University rules football and Rugby University rules etc.

If you read the SMH (digitised copies) they reffered to our indigenous game simply as "football" as did all the other newspapers of the time.

 

[dmc333]

Where you from in Canada, eh?

 

[Crawb]

Hello folks, a few of you may remember me from last season - the newbie Suns fan from Canada asking a lot of newbie-type questions. Last year, I asked many of them in the Introductions board but, now that I have been here nearly a full year, it doesn't really seem right putting my latest questions there.

If some of you could help me out with my latest list of questions, I would greatly appreciate it!

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

2. Why are the Bulldogs consistently a poor team. I have watched some videos about how great teams of the past were but, I never see any sustained success for the Bulldogs. Why have they been constantly near the bottom? Not spending $ on players? Bad management? Poor drafting?

3. Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in Australia?

Thanks for your insight everyone.

1. Australia has 6 states - WA, SA, Tas, Vic, Qld, NSW and 2 Territories (kind of like states, but they're just smaller population wise, but aren't too far off Tas) which are the NT and ACT. AFL has always historically been popular in WA/SA/Tas/Vic/NT. QLD/NSW have always been Rugby League orientated. ACT was 50/50 until the 80s when they got a Rugby League team where it shifted. Simply put some states leaned towards one code more than the other in the very early days and this developed through history and has resulted in a divide today. However whilst the AFL only has a smallish (but stable) following (relative to Rugby League anyway) in NSW/Qld/ACT (the non-AFL areas), alternatively Rugby League struggles badly in WA/SA/NT/Tas with little or no attention to the sport at all. Victoria is just a very sporting state. GP, AusOpen, Cricket, AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, ALeauge. They are down for pretty much anything, but AFL obviously *the* sport in the city. Nothing really caused the divide I guess, it just sort of developed over time.

2. The Bulldogs had a good team for awhile in the last decade. They just fell short of making the Grand Final between 2008 and 2010 in 3 consecutive occasions with 3 close losses in the Preliminary final. Again between 1997 and 2000, they had the opportunities but just didn't make the most of them/got unlucky. Historically however they've just been one of the smallest/poorest ($ wise) clubs in the old VFL days. They're still a small club today. They have 9 other Melbourne based team to compete with. AFL is very unique in the sense of having half the competition based in one city. There is less share of the market for them essentially. I wouldn't say they're a poor team however.

3. Darwin could not support a team, sure the NT is very pro-AFL, but the population there is very low. Honestly Tasmania, 3rd WA Team, 3rd NSW team, Nth Qld team, ACT team & even New Zealand would be ahead of them lol. They just don't have the population to sustain a team in Darwin, maybe in 75-100 years...but not anytime soon lol 18 clubs is about the maximum right now, however in 5 years it maybe 20. In 15 years it maybe 22, it all depends.

The problem with Tasmania is that there are two large cities that make up most of the population that are 2hrs drive apart from each other. If there were a Tasmanian team, it would most likely be based in one city and play 4/5 of their 11 home games in the other city. The fundamental problem is, where do you base it. Tasmanians could just be sick off other clubs playing games in Tasmania. They've gotten a decent amount of games now for a number of years. So the novelty of seeing actual AFL football in their own state has certainly worn off. If they had a team, they wouldn't have a problem filling a 20k stadium like they currently have. But I agree, it isn't a good look for Tasmania if people aren't going to games anymore.

 

[sherb]

Here is a very good summation of what happened in the early days in Sydney:
http://footystats.freeservers.com/Special/history.html

There is a LOT of reading on this page, but probably the most relevant parts are those titled PART ONE and PART TWO (which a page search will find easily enough).

It is well worth a read for those interested in the subject and gives a pretty good idea of how Australian Football came not to be the major sport here that it did in other parts of the country.

 

[SJ]

The other thing to remember is that certain parts of New South Wales (Murray and Riverina particularly) have had a strong Australian football presence for a long time.

 

[replicant]

Please...

We're talking to someone from Canada.

If you say "Rugby" he's going to think of a completely different sport from the one you mean.

Rugby League is not "Rugby". There is a Rugby World Cup, and it's not Rugby League. Just say "Rugby League" or "League", and save any confusion for our international friend.

 

[SJ]

Please...

We're talking to someone from Canada.

If you say "Rugby" he's going to think of a completely different sport from the one you mean.

Rugby League is not "Rugby". There is a Rugby World Cup, and it's not Rugby League. Just say "Rugby League" or "League", and save any confusion for our international friend.

Most people can't even get the name of our own sport right, what hope do they have with other codes?

 

[smasha]

Here is a very good summation of what happened in the early days in Sydney:
http://footystats.freeservers.com/Special/history.html

There is a LOT of reading on this page, but probably the most relevant parts are those titled PART ONE and PART TWO (which a page search will find easily enough).

It is well worth a read for those interested in the subject and gives a pretty good idea of how Australian Football came not to be the major sport here that it did in other parts of the country.

Very fascinating read.
Wow Plans in 1914 to combine both sports, cross bar instead of behind post,tries allowed as well.
Would have made a unique game.
The outbreak of World War 1 ,the catalyst to stop these plans.

 

[ClashGurnseyRage]

I feel sad to think of kids growing up in QLD and NSW and having to see rugby on tv or having rugby forced on them by their parents, meat head sport, how terribly sad

 

[randyzany]

Most people can't even get the name of our own sport right, what hope do they have with other codes?

Care factor: 0

Both rugbies look like the same shit to me, have no interest in wasting my time in telling them apart. Couldn't care less if NRL followers gets their knickers in a knot because I dare call their game rugby, you know what the R stands for in nRl. And using the word league to refer to the NRL is equally ridiculous as there is the A LEAGUE, Australian Football LEAGUE etc... creating even more confusion than their original whinge.

It really shouldn't surprise me why fans of NRL gets upset over such a trivial insignificant issue.

 

[sherb]

Care factor: 0

Both rugbies look like the same shit to me, have no interest in wasting my time in telling them apart. Couldn't care less if an NRL followers gets their knickers in a knot because I dare call their game rugby, you know what the R stands for in nRl. And using the word league to refer to the NRL is equally ridiculous as there is the A LEAGUE, Australian Football LEAGUE etc... creating even more confusion.

It really shouldn't surprise me why fans of NRL gets upset over such a trivial insignificant issue.

I can understand it.

I'm Australian Football through and through, but having lived in Sydney for over 30 years I get annoyed by seeing Rugby League referred to as Rugby myself.

 

[randyzany]

Well it's kinda like someone from Western Australian crying because a Victorian called them an Australian when he/she is a WESTERN Australian. So f&*^% what.

 

[sherb]

As I said, I can understand it.

 

[Rich]

Tasmania having an AFL team is probably the equivalent of Halifax/Nova Scotia owning its own NHL team.

Both probably dead keen on having one but just not quite having the population to do so.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

3. Could Tasmania really support a team? I watched some of the Hawthorn v Brisbane game and saw a lot of empty seats. The reigning Premiers were in town and the place couldn't sell out. Could Launceston support an AFL club? Can Darwin support a club? Is 18 clubs the maximium that can be supported in Australia?

It couldn't be a team for one town like Launceston, Hobart or Darwin, but for the entire state/territory. Tassie would be propped up by their State govt as a condition of entry. The big advantage a Tas team has is the enormous expat away support they'd have in the mainland as a result of the brain-drain out of Tasmania.

There are other big population areas that the AFL could expand into, but none of them are really AFL heartland yet, so would be a big investment. Woollongong, Newcastle, Nth Qld all come to mind, as does New Zealand.

The biggest impediment to further expansion is playing talent. The pool just isn't big enough currently. One of the major reasons for expanding into non-heartland areas like the Gold Coast and Western Sydney was to grow the player base. In a generation hopefully we see the fruits of that and can look to expand again.

 

[sherb]

Tasmania having an AFL team is probably the equivalent of Halifax/Nova Scotia owning its own NHL team.

Both probably dead keen on having one but just not quite having the population to do so.

The population of Tassie would sustain a side, as long as it is home grown and not a relocated Victorian side.

They have two AFL quality venues, split the games between the two of them. It doesn't matter where they set up training facilities imo, Hobart would be fine for that.

Launceston game service the North/North West (biggest population centres Launceston, Devonport and Burnie, the latter being the furthest away, which is probably only 90 mins drive), Hobart games service the south.

Sponsors of course don't have to necessarily come from within the state. The government could redirect their existing money into the venture. I don't think memberships would be an issue and I would imagine the venue arrangements would be quite financially attractive as well.

 

[SJ]

Well it's kinda like someone from Western Australian crying because a Victorian called them an Australian when he/she is a WESTERN Australian. So f&*^% what.

It's more like a Czech being called a Czechoslovakian.

 

[Oneiros]

Hello folks, a few of you may remember me from last season - the newbie Suns fan from Canada asking a lot of newbie-type questions. Last year, I asked many of them in the Introductions board but, now that I have been here nearly a full year, it doesn't really seem right putting my latest questions there.

If some of you could help me out with my latest list of questions, I would greatly appreciate it!

1. I love the level of support teams get in WA and SA - the Eagles v Bulldogs game at Patersons Stadium was packed. Why is there such great support in WA, SA and VIC but not so much in NSW and QL? What happened way back in Australia's history to cause footy to be so popular in part of the country but not very popular in other parts? Any insight?

GC Suns, GWS Giants, and the older Sydney Swans/Brisbane Lions are all probably best understood as the AFL equivalent to the NHL sun belt expansion attempts. I'd say a large part of the divide comes down to Victoria and NSW as the two largest states, each wanting to do their own things and dragging the states on their side along with them. WA's remoteness is probably why it is (arguably) a bit more diverse in its sports despite being in Victoria's sphere of influence, and is part of why it was the first of the AFL-states to have a Rugby Union team, and the first Rugby League team (which has sense folded, though it is now in line to possibly get a new franchise). However WA is still AFL first with daylight second.

Edit:

Also, to be especially controversial, you could argue that rugby league with its culture of high-octane action, head-on collisions, cheer-leaders and assorted general tawdriness, appeals to the flashier, more bling-obsessed, shallow and fashion-conscious Sydney lifestyle as well as the brasher New Texans up in Queensland.

Yeah, come at me NSW+QLDers!

 

[Iason]

Of course the biggest cities do have representation across the sporting codes.

While people certainly have their preferences, there isn't an outright dislike of other sports in cities like there is in Australia. Its more common to like all of the teams in your city here.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

While people certainly have their preferences, there isn't an outright dislike of other sports in cities like there is in Australia. Its more common to like all of the teams in your city here.

I think people will generally get behind most sports - I'll go to Bulldogs games, Melbourne Victory (soccer), Melbourne Ice (you guessed it, ice hockey), Melbourne Tigers (basketball), Melbourne Storm (rugby league) games and so on.
It's the clash of football codes that causes the angst.