A few questions about this great game....

[cammo78]

. The Dogs have had their chances, it's odd that they couldn't keep a bloke like Lake happy who still lives on that side of town, it must be a nightmare for him to travel to training out at Waverley every day. Why haven't St.Kilda been more successful? it's just one of those anomalies.

Need to question this.

Lake wasn't "unhappy" as such. He was, however, told that we would be heading down a rebuild path, meaning his role as the key backman wouldn't be guaranteed, and he would be expected to fill whatever need arose at a given time. He was also well aware that the clock was ticking, and an offer came about that meant he could go to a team in premiership mode. He then duly won a flag and Norm Smith (I, for one, was incredibly happy for the fella). It was not a case of "being unable to keep him happy", at all, and in fact is probably as close to an example of a "win-win-win" trade as you could get (we got Hrovat with the pick, who looks like a beauty). I am also uncertain what relevance this has to us "having had our chances"....are you suggesting that had Brian Lake stayed, we would have been more successful? We were shot to pieces by the time he left, so it's an irrelevant statement.

I think you will also find that, pound for pound, the Dogs have had an incredibly loyal bunch of players over the journey - when a lot of them could have been forgiven for having headed elsewhere. It's very hard to recall many players who have left for greener pastures (Callan Ward and Harbrow aside - but they chased the obscene money). Since Dempsey and Templeton, I can't recall any big names who have up and left the Kennel, really. If anything, they have come the other way.

 

[RogersResults]

Australian Football originated in Melbourne in 1858 with a football game influenced by the game played at Rubgy school in England with possible influence from the Aboriginal game of Marngrook (although there is no hard evidence for this.) At this time there were no codified rules for any football game anywhere in the world outside of a few English private schools nor any centralised body administering any type of football. In 1859 at the time of the first written rules (H.C.A. Harrison's hand-written copy for the Melbourne Football Club still exist), all the Australian colonies were self governing except Western Australia (not till 1890) with Queensland just separated from NSW in that year.

What became known as 'Victorian Rules' football outside of Victoria gradually spread throughout the Australian colonies. The first governing body was the South Australian Football Association (formed some weeks before the Victorian Football Association in 1877) which adopted the 'Victorian Rules' to play under.

In this period the game played by the South Australian and Victorian Associations was a lot closer to the 'Rugby rules' and matches were played against teams from the other colonies and from England under both sets of rules. Gradually the Australian game became more and more distinct, evolving more rapidly than the football codes in England. (The provinces are sometimes more innovative than the capital.)

However, although the rules played in Victoria and South Australia were played in Sydney, there was greater identification in NSW with being British. As the concept of 'Australia' developed and as plans arose for federation of the Australia colonies into one nation in the 1890s, the favoured model in NSW was for an Imperial federation with London as its capital. It took multiple referendums to get the NSW to agree to become part of Australia. There was also the rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney. At the time of the federation referendums, Melbourne was the largest city in Australia and another sticking point to federation was the possibility of Melbourne being the federal capital (that's why there is Canberra). It is quite possible that this rivalry coupled with looking more to England than to Australia led to the Australian devised football code being rejected in NSW and in the last colony separated from it, Queensland. Anything 'Victorian' or 'Australian' was seen as only a poor imitation of something from the 'Old Country'. Sydney is home of the 'Australian Cringe'. (That political and cultural heritage can still be seen with the reintroduction of "Sirs" and "Dames" by a NSW based prime minister.)

Another key factor in NSW favouring rugby over Australian Football is the policy of the Catholic church. Without going into the whole issue of religious divides in Britain and its colonies, the policy from the Vatican was that in societies where the Catholics were the minority or excluded from power it was decided that they should try and infiltrate the organisations of the ruling elite. This included sport. In Sydney the Catholic schools taught rubgy, in Melbourne they taught Australian Football. (In the case of Canberra, as an enclave in NSW its schools were staffed with teachers from NSW, so rugby there became the predominant code.)

Western Australia is part of Australia and plays Australian Football primarily because of the number of Victorians resident on the Kalgoorlie goldfields in the 1890s. The ruling elite in Perth gave women the vote in 1899 in the hope that their vote would outweigh the vote from the goldfields and keep W.A. out of the federation. A referendum was only held when the goldfields threatened to seceded from W.A. Perth with a population of less than 30,000 didn't have enough votes in the end to keep the colony separate. (A majority in W.A. voted to secede from Australia in 1933 but the Colonial Office and the King in London ignored them.) Some of the feeling of West Australians about football teams from over East may have their origins in these events.

 

[Hoops]

Please...

We're talking to someone from Canada.

If you say "Rugby" he's going to think of a completely different sport from the one you mean.

Rugby League is not "Rugby". There is a Rugby World Cup, and it's not Rugby League. Just say "Rugby League" or "League", and save any confusion for our international friend.

And if you say Rugby League he is going to think Rugby. so you might aswell just say rugby

 

[scott_the_man]

I have never understood why qld and nsw have such a huge nrl fanbase. nrl is one of the most boring/bland sports I have ever watched, and I have watched it quite a bit...

 

[JackFlash]

Need to question this.

Lake wasn't "unhappy" as such. He was, however, told that we would be heading down a rebuild path, meaning his role as the key backman wouldn't be guaranteed, and he would be expected to fill whatever need arose at a given time. He was also well aware that the clock was ticking, and an offer came about that meant he could go to a team in premiership mode. He then duly won a flag and Norm Smith (I, for one, was incredibly happy for the fella). It was not a case of "being unable to keep him happy", at all, and in fact is probably as close to an example of a "win-win-win" trade as you could get (we got Hrovat with the pick, who looks like a beauty).

I think you will also find that, pound for pound, the Dogs have had an incredibly loyal bunch of players over the journey. It's very hard to recall many players who have left for greener pastures (Callan Ward and Harbrow aside - but they chased the obscene money). Since Dempsey and Templeton, I can't recall any big names who have up and left the Kennel, really. If anything, they have come the other way.

They have a had lot more than Dempsey and Templeton leave the kennel, the Dogs have a long history of defectors from Robert McGhie, David Thorpe, Peter Featherby, Bernie Quinlan, Nathan Brown and more recently Brian Lake. Every team has players who leave, it's no real criticism and the reasoning behind the Lake move is sound, but somehow the Bulldogs just don't reach that elite level as a team, something that their Western neighbours the Bombers have managed to do consistently more over the journey. I like the Dogs, i like Brendan McCartney, but gee they were rotten against West Coast. Let's hope they do a little better this week, it's a big game for them.

 

[WinmarToLockett]

Well that doesn't stop tens of thousands of Collingwood supporters following the game....harsh on Tassie folk there.

No, it's not harsh. Their adult literacy rate is appalling- it's less than 50%, according to lots of reports I've read (here's one: www.examiner.com.au/story/158506/49-literacy-not-as-bad-as-it-looks/‎).

No need to rehash tired, irrelevant cliches. The facts are Tasmania struggles.

 

[IanW]

I have never understood why qld and nsw have such a huge nrl fanbase. nrl is one of the most boring/bland sports I have ever watched, and I have watched it quite a bit...

Rest assured, plenty of NSW and Queensland people have said the same thing about a bunch of seagulls fighting over a chip.

 

[SJ]

I have never understood why qld and nsw have such a huge nrl fanbase. nrl is one of the most boring/bland sports I have ever watched, and I have watched it quite a bit...

That is a subjective view.

 

[Shane Hird]

No, it's not harsh. Their adult literacy rate is appalling- it's less than 50%, according to lots of reports I've read (here's one: www.examiner.com.au/story/158506/49-literacy-not-as-bad-as-it-looks/‎).

No need to rehash tired, irrelevant cliches. The facts are Tasmania struggles.

Yeah...but you don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to follow football. So saying Tassie people cant read or write really has nothing to do with having a team there or not..hey?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Well that doesn't stop tens of thousands of Collingwood supporters following the game....harsh on Tassie folk there.

Just remember Tassie folk have two heads from inbreeding, Essendon folk have two heads due to experimental drug use.

 

[Shane Hird]

Just remember Tassie folk have two heads from inbreeding, Essendon folk have two heads due to experimental drug use.

That's some side splitting comedy there...

 

[ManOfClay]

That's some side splitting comedy there...

Pales in comparison to the generic dig at collingwood supporters.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

geez Rugby is shit

 

[Obese Arachnid]

That's some side splitting comedy there...

I didn't want to overshadow your comedic genius.

Lame for lame.

 

[IanW]

geez Rugby is shit

Maybe, but between 1907 and 1914 rugby league was able to establish a viable club competition in Sydney and Australian Rules wasnt.

 

[cos789]

Tasmania having an AFL team is probably the equivalent of Halifax/Nova Scotia owning its own NHL team.

Both probably dead keen on having one but just not quite having the population to do so.

Yet Nova Scotia has the Nova Scota AFL http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-9666-0-0-0

Maybe that's the way to go.

 

[cos789]

Maybe, but between 1907 and 1914 rugby league was able to establish a viable club competition in Sydney and Australian Rules wasnt.

That was because the NSWFL was already established in 1903 with a very viable league that pre-ceded the formation of rl .
A lot of those foundation teams still exist today.
I was at a SFL GF at Erskineville and an old timer related the times
when the GF would draw 14,000 people.

 

[Rich]

Yet Nova Scotia has the Nova Scota AFL http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-9666-0-0-0

Maybe that's the way to go.

Some great stuff on that website, love finding things like that.

And how's the creativity to play an International Rules match between the Dockers and Gaelic team? Brilliant. Good luck to them.

 

[cos789]

Some great stuff on that website, love finding things like that.

And how's the creativity to play an International Rules match between the Dockers and Gaelic team? Brilliant. Good luck to them.

IR matches have really faded from the public's horizon but in amateur football overseas it is quite common as a developmental and or promotional tool.
In some established leagues like in Vancouver it has become the annual start to the season.
I was challenged some time ago about a similar remark so I did some extensive R&R (research & replying).
see http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/cos789s-thoughts-on-the-ir-series.1038380/page-8

 

[cos789]

Australian Football originated in Melbourne in 1858 with a football game influenced by the game played at Rubgy school in England with possible influence from the Aboriginal game of Marngrook (although there is no hard evidence for this.).

Yet at the commitee to formulate the rules of football, Tom Wills recommended that the new game be neither the game played at Cambridge University nor the game played at Rugby University. It was to be an entirely new game. That we do Know. Any influence is still only conjecture atm even though we know Tom Will's family was in contact with aborigines. For Tom Wills to have attended Rugby University then recommend against adopting their rules IMO he disliked those rules and was thus negatively influenced.

 

[cos789]

In this period the game played by the South Australian and Victorian Associations was a lot closer to the 'Rugby rules' and matches were played against teams from the other colonies and from England under both sets of rules. Gradually the Australian game became more and more distinct, evolving more rapidly than the football codes in England.

Actually the rules were a lot lot closer to Cambridge Rules. There was no offside, no tackling and you could soccer the ball.
All football games looked like a huge scrum in those times and so the association of looking like rugby, but as you say the codes refined their techniques and were distinguished more easily. The English reneged on their promise to reciprocate on the events in Australia where the colonials had thrashed the English at Colonial Rules and more often then not beat them at Rugby Rules. Later on, rugby changed it's rules to be more competitive with the colonial game when clubs like Sydney's Waratah switched to the colonial game. So we have rugby changing by the influence of Australian Football. Some people now suggest that Gaelic Football was similarly influenced instead of originally influencing the colonial game.

 

[cos789]

Gradually the Australian game became more and more distinct, evolving more rapidly than the football codes in England.

In fact Australian Fooball is the home of the modern day commuity football club,
with football clubs, leagues, fixtures, grounds, players, fans and payments.

 

[cos789]

Western Australia is part of Australia and plays Australian Football primarily ...

Because the English soldiers stationed at the (now demolished) Perth barracks played colonial rules. Again the population of Perth saw the colonial game as much more exciting than the English game and most of the rugby clubs existing in Perth at that time switched to the colonial game.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I have never understood why qld and nsw have such a huge nrl fanbase. nrl is one of the most boring/bland sports I have ever watched, and I have watched it quite a bit...

My best theory is that nobody actually rationally chooses which sport to follow based on which is most exciting or tactically intriguing or any other such reason. It is more a product of where you were brought up and/or which school you went to.

 

[cos789]

However, although the rules played in Victoria and South Australia were played in Sydney, there was greater identification in NSW with being British.

This identification with the English was held by certain power brokers and it was these power brokers that prevented the game that was popuarly recieved everywhere it was played from achieving it's full potential in Australia and overseas.