A little touch of reality...

[Tambu]

I don't start threads all that often, so be please... be gentle and don't fall a sleep

Okay, I'll kick start this post by saying that I don't agree with every move Knights makes and I don't expect everyone else to either. But lately, the behaviour from our supporters in general has left me feeling embarrassed to be an Essendon supporter. Now I understand the frustration, believe me, I was losing the plot myself watching the game last week, but the constant attacks at the coach is beyond a joke. I read it on here, I hear it from my friends and family and I hear it on the radio. As a supporters and members of the EFC we SHOULD be better than that, and not have to sink down to that pathetic level.

To those of you that are still here and haven't clicked out of this thread, I'm not asking you to agree with everything Knights does, I'm not even asking you to like the guy. I'm asking you all to stop with the verbal and written attacks and constant bagging of our coach and show some patience and true support.

Now here's a bit of reality... I was going through our playing list and just for fun, I've decided to pick out our young midfielders coming through the ranks and the number of games they have each played:

Colyer - 4
Hocking - 37
Houli - 23
Howlett - 7
Jetta - 35
Melksham - 10
Myers - 20
Prismall - 48
Reimers - 32
Zaharakis - 24

...we're rotating these guys through the seniors to give them more experience. Out of that group, Prismall is obviously the most experienced with just the 48 games.

Watson, Stanton and Winderlich aren't going to get the help they need from this group yet. So we all have no choice but to be patient and accept that this team will be inconsistent for a little while yet until they develop into bigger and stronger players.

As far as young KPP go, we have a very similar deal:

Bellchambers - 12
Daniher - 6
Gumbleton - 19
Hooker - 28
Hurley - 21
Neagle - 21
Pears - 38
Ryder - 87

Sweet F all experience there and some of these guys, along with Hille and Fletcher, are holding down KP posts full time and coming up against bigger, stronger and more experienced opponents every week.

There's no way in hell we're going to be a good side week in, week out until we get more games into these boys. All of this I'm sure you already know but instead choose to ignore and would rather take out all the frustration on the coach and players. That's a shite effort folks!

As far as the game plan goes, personally I'm not convinced at the way in which Knights is implementing it and I'm sure a lot of you out there aren't convinced either. But I'm not an expert and the fact is our coach was a former AFL champ, albeit at a poor club, who just may know what he's doing but needs the time and patience of the supporters.

In the end, if Knights fails to get us up the ladder, it won't be because he didn't bust his ass for this club, so as a supporter base, lets savour our dignity and respect (whats left of it) and get behind the team and coach now when they need us the most!

 

[james_omahoney]

The point about getting experience into our younger players I agree with. I've read a few suggestions on the Essendon board lately calling for Gumby or Hurley or Zaka or Melksham to be rested. They need to be played continuously so long as they're fit and able. The more games into them, the better we'll be for it as a team going forward.

I hate seeing players like Howlett or Myers come in and out willy nilly.

 

[Knight Ryders]

That's about how I feel too. I'm not convinced that Knights is it, but he's done okay imo with what we've got. To add to this, we've also had a hard draw which has been well recognised.

We're a proud club so used to success that it has been a bitter pill to swallow over the last 5 years. I don't think we realised how long or how backwards we'd have to go to move forward.

Despite what some of the media say, I think that the below could (and I say could) be 'A' graders or at the very least B+ in the years to come:

Hurley
Melksham
Pears
Gumbleton
Hooker
Ryder - probably already is
Zaharakis
Hocking - not glamorous, but make no mistake, you want him in the trenches.
Colyer - perfectly suited to the modern game imo.
Dempsey
T Bell - has impressed me. Still a fair way to go but definitely has some talent.

 

[Shane Hird]

In the end, if Knights fails to get us up the ladder, it won't be because he didn't bust his ass for this club,
so as a supporter base, lets savour our dignity and respect (whats left of it) and get behind the team and coach now when they need us the most!

Thats a good post Tambu. Stayed wide awake through out the whole thing..

It's pretty fair assessment of where we are at as a club..player experience wise.

But the whole dignity and respect thing is just not going to happen mate.

Football fans want wins. Winning is all that matters.

And a club with three generations (back to '81) of mad keen supporters (who have been spoilt with preliminary finals, four flags, seven GF appearances and one 79th draft pick who turned out to be one of history's greatest players) is not going to put up with performances like the one that happened on the weekend without complaining endlessly.

Until things get better, Knights will be in the cross-hairs of most Essendon followers for a long while yet..just like Sheedy was every five years in his career at WH.

I agree we have to give Knights a go and see what he does for the rest of the season. But as much as it annoys you, the BF Bomber board is the last place you gunna find respectful, patient Essendon supporters who will never utter a bad word about the coach or under performing players.

 

[donspremiers]

Good constructive thread.

Tbh last year we played out of our skins and won some lucky games and probably didn't deserve to finish so high considering the inexperience in the team. But us as supporters expect to finish higher than we did than the previous season or at least show improvement in areas.
Knights IMO has done a great job in cleaning out the deadwood. But his game plan isn't working and his selections have been questionable to say the least. Plus he clearly can't motivate the team.The selection panel and the skills coachs should be just as responsable.

 

[yaco55]

This kind of information has been posted before but the important thing - Is that it reinforces the inexperience of our playing group.

Until the majority of the players listed play 50 games we will struggle to make finals.

Patience is required - Nothing else.

 

[Bombermania]

I agree it is easy to when frustrated to blame the coach and want player A or B delisted but the frustrating thing is we know this group have some talent, I agree we are a few players short and the skill level can at times be very poor.

I have been pleased that Knights has been upfront is addressing then common complaints aimed at him and hopefully things cna imporve and I suspect we all know that we are bound to be thrashed at least one or twice a season.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Great post Tambu, really can't disagree with anything.

Once guys like Stanton and Ryder are pushing 150-200 games and Zaka, Melksham, Pears, Hooker, Gumbleton etc. are pushing 70-100 games, we'll be right.

 

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Completely agree. Nice post Tambu but unfortunetly the stubborn supporters will keep on complaining and what not.

 

[Beerfish]

Great effort Tambu.

There's some great comments in here too that are spot on for mine.

This kind of information has been posted before but the important thing - Is that it reinforces the inexperience of our playing group.

Until the majority of the players listed play 50 games we will struggle to make finals.

Patience is required - Nothing else.

Except possibly trading Stanton for Boak right?

 

[The House]

Kudos on the post....i'd encourage you to belt out a few more when the mood strikes you!

I agree whole heartedly about the reaction from a lot more Essendon supporters than i'd care to admit in relation to the Knights bashing.

I certainly don't agree with everything he does, but overall i think he's doing a pretty bloody good job thus far.
Yes i was bleeding watching the crows game, and yes i'd like to be in the 8, but looking at the bigger picture and the circumstances he's had to work with, i would say overall he's doing a pretty good job, and i'm glad he's our coach moving forward.

I've said before that i don't think a lot of people realise, or choose to acknowledge, just what a shambles our list had been left in by the time Sheedy had left....for those with a short memory, go back and look at the 2007 list. It blows and was always going to take 3-5 years to see any real success.

Add to that the draw which masks how well we've ACTUALLY performed...make no mistake, there have not been 11 teams that have played better footy than us over the course of this year.

Playing 10 of 14 games against the current top 8, with 2 of those remaining 4 being interstate doesn't help the wins and losses compared to certain other sides.

The reality is we would be about the 7th-8th best performed side this year, and if the ladder reflected this Knights would cop a lot less.

 

[Pweter]

Great post. It'd be great if the supporter base had a united front on this matter but when a club has had a lot of success, wins are expected. When they dry up somewhat, the natives get restless.

I've eluded to the fact in other posts our list is average, and it is. What you're saying and is the reason behind my "average" comment is youth has a lot to do with this. It has the potential to be a very good list.

 

[HurleyLegend]

Great post. It'd be great if the supporter base had a united front on this matter but when a club has had a lot of success, wins are expected. When they dry up somewhat, the natives get restless.

I've eluded to the fact in other posts our list is average, and it is. What you're saying and is the reason behind my "average" comment is youth has a lot to do with this. It has the potential to be a very good list.

Agree. Great post.

People have to accept the fact that we are a developing team and adjust expectations.

We'll be pushing top 8 next year and top 4 the year after

 

[yaco55]

Great effort Tambu.

There's some great comments in here too that are spot on for mine.




Except possibly trading Stanton for Boak right?

Quoted of of context.

Dont rate Boak as highly as others - I merely started a thread showing what we may have to give up to trade in Boak - Nothing more or nothing else.

FWIW - I rate h.Hartlett higher than Boak.

 

[TheDon35]

That's a nice sell. Soft but nice.

Every team in the league could put together a similar list of young players that are rotating through.

Pathetic to suggest you get embarassed by association to be an Essendon supporter because our fans actually have the common sense to criticise our coach, the list and where it's heading. Head in the sand.

 

[Pweter]

That's a nice sell. Soft but nice.

Every team in the league could put together a similar list of young players that are rotating through.

Pathetic to suggest you get embarassed by association to be an Essendon supporter because our fans actually have the common sense to criticise our coach, the list and where it's heading. Head in the sand.

Most teams above us on the ladder would not be rotating that many, and they would have far more quality established players to support the inexperienced ones.

We are rebuilding. Get used to it.

 

[Beerfish]

Quoted of of context.

True.

I merely started a thread showing what we may have to give up to trade in Boak - Nothing more or nothing else.

False.

Boak is more of an inside player than Stanton and would complement watson better than Stanton - I have high hopes that melksham and Colyer will be very good outside mids, therefore replacing Stanton.

 

[The House]

That's a nice sell. Soft but nice.

Every team in the league could put together a similar list of young players that are rotating through.

Pathetic to suggest you get embarassed by association to be an Essendon supporter because our fans actually have the common sense to criticise our coach, the list and where it's heading. Head in the sand.

To ocasionally criticise the coach when he makes an error is one thing, but the way a certain section of the Essendon fans have been with their non stop bleating about a side that in reality is on it's way up, reminds me of Carlton or even Melbourne Victory supporters....as soon as we start having success they'll say they were with him all the way and that is what's pathetic.

I would like to think as a collective group we're better than that, but unfortunately this year i'm starting to have my doubts.

 

[Eleven 38]

that is 18players right there..... but i cant see us keeping them all with the way a few of them have been treated over the last 2 years unless knights goes...

 

[TheGodDelusion]

Good topic. Fairly close to spot on IMO - people forget how much experience we lost at the end of last year. 800 games worth.

 

[bombersaway]

im not writting off the coach yet, ive backed him all the way have been frustrated at times like the rest but these things take time hopefully he(knights) will have the last laugh

good post

 

[Longy413]

To ocasionally criticise the coach when he makes an error is one thing, but the way a certain section of the Essendon fans have been with their non stop bleating about a side that in reality is on it's way up, reminds me of Carlton or even Melbourne Victory supporters....as soon as we start having success they'll say they were with him all the way and that is what's pathetic..

Bit like yourself with Slattery.



I don't know if this has happened before, but I think I agree with TheDon35.

 

[Super Gusto]

I've always said as much as the team selections and game plan is lacking, Knights can't be faulted on the way he is developing the younger players on our list.

 

[Boucks09]

I've always said as much as the team selections and game plan is lacking, Knights can't be faulted on the way he is developing the younger players on our list.

There are certaily cases in which that could be questioned.

The uncertainty of where Hurley plays; he was told pre season he would play back, then at the start of the season he is forward and now he is back again. He has only played 21 games.

Myers is played in a stop gap role at AFL level, then gets a chance in the middle and is dropped, Then goes back to the VFL in the middle.

Houli plays a different role in the VFL to what he has ever played in the AFL.

Quinn has been crucified by bringing him into two games in a side which has been abysmal and he has been the scapegoat both times.

Slattery plays a blinding debut and is dropped.

Neagle is the scapegoat for the Round 1 loss and then all of a sudden after a 80pt loss he is good enough again and we decide to move Hurley down back.

I just feel that youngsters need consistency. The likes of Hooker, Pears, Gumby, Hocking and Melksham are all reaping the rewards of this. Just imagine if we had done the same with the other players listed above.

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

Sorry for the intrusion...

Completely agreed with the OP, the reality of Essendon at the minute is that its a very young list.

There is always going to be inconsistencies both with young individuals and certainly with young teams.

For me, the best thing going on at Essendon at the minute is that all these young players are coming through, and learning and playing together.

Geelong and Saint Kilda have done the same thing, with the core of their playing group being drafted within a tightish period and growing together as a team. It took both teams a good 2-4 seasons to really excel and be competitive with the top sides.

I may have just stated the obvious, but the obvious is certainly the reality! For me anyway.