Preview AFL Round 8 - Collingwood v Geelong - Changes & Prematch Discuss

[legendstatus]

What are the odds of the little fellas from Geelong kicking a bag with Taylor and Enright as loose backmen just floating marking the big bombs......... what are the odds???????

 

[ash84]

Out Mooney/kennedy, Lynch (knee), Shaw (MRP suspension) , Clarke (hamstring)
In: Didak, Ball, Johnson, Goldsack

haha Shaw won't get suspended. He better not anyway, Ballantyne should for diving if anything.

 

[ash84]

Out: Clarke, Mooney, Elliot, Lynch (if injured)
In: Williams, Ball, Didak, Witts

 

[Rusty Beam]

I just think we have so few guys down back who can win a contest, and when it is spoiled down there, our midfield doesn't work hard enough to outnumber the opposition at the contest. .

This!

I am starting to sound like a broken record, but the real issues are defensive accountability for a player (no matter position) and outnumbering the opposition at the contest.

In terms of outnumbering, that doesn't mean actually standing around hoping your player will win the ball. It means actually trying to get your hands on the thing too. Quite simply, two or three sets of hands trying to wrench the ball away against one will likely to come out on top.

If you watch Geelong play (or freo on sat night) it is what they have built their game on. Thompson said as much on 360 the other week.

At the moment the pies seem to just want to sheepdog the contest in the hope of getting it fed out.

 

[unplugged]

At the moment the pies seem to just want to sheepdog the contest in the hope of getting it fed out.

Enter Luke Ball.

 

[BeechyMagpie]

Hi All,

First post after finally signing up, after reading for quite a while. I guess Saturday night's performance has finally led me to signing up, so I can voice and opinion and discuss others.

In regards to the Geelong game, It is obviously a critical moment in our season, and we will find out which way Buckley believes is the way forward, in regards to season 2013 at least.

If Didak and Ball come in, then I guess he believes the kids are not ready yet. If J.Thomas, Dwyer, Kennedy keep their spots, then it is a last clear indication that Buckley is going to stick with the youth, and that Didak is very much a last resort player. IMO Ball must return.

I think the injuries we have had, whilst not an excuse, are certainly a reason for our lack of performance of late. And let's be honest, the same mistakes were being made in 2012; opposition teams are just starting to take advantage of these errors. We have lost our aura which is the worst part. After the 2010 prelim, Matt Scarlett said “It felt like they had three or four extra players out there …they just swarm you. I’ve never seen anything like that” - that aura of perceived pressure has been lost, and we are clearly not working hard enough.

When Ball and Beams return, it allows us to put Blair back inside the forward 50. His work rate and intensity is vital in there, and is unmatched by some of our other small forwards. So the injuries have a flow on effect in the sense we are filling circlular gaps with square pegs at the moment.

For what it is worth, Ball should play this week, there is too much on the line to leave it till hindsight to know if the right decision was made. Didak should play; if he doesn't then it's a waste of time him being at the club still as he is fitter and in better form than he has been in 2 seasons. His skills have always been elite, and our ball use has been disgusting lately.

In: Ball & Didak

Not exactly sure who to take out though which is sitting on the fence I know. I love the fact Buckley is putting time into J.Thomas, Seedsman, Kennedy, Dwyer, Elliott and others - but with such inconsistent results I think it's time to just go back to old faithful for a game or two and see where players like Didak are at.

 

[Adz]

I'll be furious if we don't tag this week. Selwood is having the worst form of his career and Johnson is killing teams ATM. Must tag one of them.

 

[istillbelieve]

I'll be furious if we don't tag this week. Selwood is having the worst form of his career and Johnson is killing teams ATM. Must tag one of them.

Macaffer to Johnson for sure, he did a good job when he went onto Mundy who was running hot.

 

[dubber]

Hi All,

<snip>

Welcome BeechyMagpie, good first post, stay & enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions displayed on this board

 

[dubber]

Macaffer to Johnson for sure, he did a good job when he went onto Mundy who was running hot.

 

[Visions]

I'll be furious if we don't tag this week. Selwood is having the worst form of his career and Johnson is killing teams ATM. Must tag one of them.

I thought that was a foreign word at the Pies. When was the last time we actually had a long term proper tagger that played more than 10 games?

 

[ksardog]

Macaffer to Johnson for sure, he did a good job when he went onto Mundy who was running hot.

or bartel, not sure caff can keep up with johnson all game. bartel gets under the guard, gets lots of marks in the backline and starts their rebound. maybe get sidebottom to run with johnson through the midfield.
i think we should go small up forward. try and render geelongs tall backs useless. we have to think outside the square, this is how i would line up.

F krakour d thomas mooney
CHF elliott cloke didak

if we get goldsack back, play him across half back where his long kicking can be utilised along with seedsmans.
cloke to go on his long leads again to give us that target with the smalls to get at his feet.
d thomas has started a ff a few times under malthouse and gets on the scoreboard [done it a few times against the swans] early and can get us the initiative.

thoughts

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I think the Cats are going to tear us to shreds with Motlop, Christensen & Stokes rotating through the forward line. We simply don't have the players to stop these guys.

I think we can match it in the midfield, even win convincingly. However, at the moment the Cats are not winning in the middle, but winning games easily anyway. They are losing the clearances & contested counts quite a bit. It doesn't matter for them though, because they know the other team will give it back to them (& we will) and with their ball movement just slice us up & hit the scoreboard almost every time.

I can see us winning the clearances, contested possession & inside 50s and still losing by 50. Their defense is still the best in the business and will match up well on us. I am pretty confident we can shut down their talls in Hawkins, Pods & the floaters like Taylor. The smalls are where the danger lies.

I really think teams need to look at how they are going to stop the way the Cats are playing. At the moment they have a unique game plan that is breaking some "rules". They are ahead of the competition like the Hawks were with their zoning & precise possession game in 2008 & like we were with the press.

If we play the way we have been and like other teams have been we will get smashed.

I have seen the Cats a bit and what strikes me is the way they apporach stoppages/contested ball. They are completely non committal around the stoppages - and it works!

The opposition like most teams gets big numbers to the stoppage or contest. The Cats do as well, but they will only have a couple committed to going in (usually Selwood). The others sag off and almost zone around it. If they win the ball (often not the case) they have free guys everywhere spreading like crazy with no one to stop them as the opposition has committed all their numbers close to the contest. They can score easily in this situation. If they don't win it these free players are already in position to shut down the clearing kick or handball or any players trying to spread from the contest or stoppage. It often produces a turnover where once again they have numbers already in place everywhere spreading.

Its also the reason they don't need a gun ruck division.

It does mean they do at times expose their defense as the opposition can win a lot of the clearances and get it inside 50 a lot - if they kick long and don't muck around. However, they back their excellent defense to mop up and win the 50/50s and do not get too stressed if they are scored against. They know that they can score more heavily with less opportunities and also totally burn sides on the rebound as those same guys are still free & open in the middle of the ground.

It reminds me of some soccer tactics.

I think the first thing sides should try against them is to go man on man, do not allow anyone space to spread. Do not get sucked into the contest. Make them grind out their scores. I don't beleive the Cats as a whole are as good a one on one side as they once were - they are playing to their strengths - harlem globe trotter style ball movement.

Great post. It would be interesting to see if we could get something similar going when we get Ball and Beams back, leaving players like Swan and Pendlebury free to float around the outside.

 

[iGNITER]

INS: Ball, Goldsack, Didak, Russell
OUTS: Dwyer, Kennedy, Mooney (inj.), Clarke (inj.)

B - Maxwell Brown Russell
HB - Shaw Reid Goldsack
C - Thomas Swan O'Brien
HF - Macaffer Lynch Sidebottom
F - Blair Cloke Krakouer
R - Jolly Ball Pendlebury
INT - J.Thomas Seedsman Elliott
SUB - Didak

 

[loki04]

This is the least confident I've been going into a match for quite some time sadly.

TBH it wouldn't bother me if Ball plays another week in the VFL, it's not like he's going to be the difference against Geelong.

The flow on effect he will have on our midfield is huge, it's not about his stats but his ability to lock the ball down and negate easy take aways is the best in our team he will allow Pendles, Swan and co to play outside games with confidence the ball isn't going to be wisked away easily.

Maxwell is the one who should be playing VFL, was Goldsack inj or just made way?

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Ball and Goldsack in please. The sack should start as our third tall but he is versatile enough to throw back if needed.

And we can't play without Ball.

 

[dubber]

INS: Ball, Goldsack, Didak, Russell
OUTS: J.Thomas, Kennedy, Mooney (inj.), Clarke (inj.)

B - Maxwell Brown Russell
HB - Shaw Reid Goldsack
C - Thomas Swan O'Brien
HF - Macaffer Lynch Sidebottom
F - Blair Cloke Krakouer
R - Jolly Ball Pendlebury
INT - Didak Seedsman Elliott
SUB - Dwyer

Pretty sure J. Thomas do not deserve to be dropped after that performance. He was one of few who stood up when the going got tough.

 

[blaze036]

This is the defining moment of our season, all we want is the boys to try for 4 quarters and if we go down by 2 goals after giving it our all we can be happy and still consider ourselfs a threat.

If we turn off then on then give up in the 4th quarter well then we have a serious mental virus in this team

 

[4#Didak#4]

Fantastic post & close to my heart as i have been mulling the whole winning clearances & contested football does not equal wining games this season. Last season all the rage was winning contested ball and clearances.
Against Freo we won both CP & Clearances & yet we lost the game.

So, how do we adapt to his changing tactic? man on man sounds like a good option, although i am not sure how we stop Motlop, Chrsitensen & Stokes from spreading from the contest.

Playing man on man is just the start, to see if we can stop the carnage. That at least clogs up their style of play. Man on man is pretty easy to counter, but at least we can make them change the way they play & not play on their terms and to their strengths.

By pushing numbers to a contest it creates huge amounts of space which is what they want, by not doing this as much it will automatically cut their spread down. Their spread at the minute is created by tactically producing a "head start", which means once they are out they are really out and impossible to stop or catch. If you can take their head start away it would be the hope they totally break down.

We will still struggle to stop Motlop & co spreading, their leg speed will probably still overcome our sluggishness, but at least we make them run around a few witches hats instead of unimpeded. They can't be allowed all the free time & space they have been getting.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

If Josh Thomas gets dropped I won't bother going to the game. He is improving every game he has played in and was in our top 3 against Freo. I would drop the other Thomas before dropping Josh Thomas.

I love players that go hard at at the ball and Josh is a very hard player and will be as good as Luke Ball in years to come IMO.

 

[iGNITER]

Pretty sure J. Thomas do not deserve to be dropped after that performance. He was one of few who stood up when the going got tough.

My bad. I actually meant to have Dwyer but got them confused.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Great post. It would be interesting to see if we could get something similar going when we get Ball and Beams back, leaving players like Swan and Pendlebury free to float around the outside.

I don't think what they do would suit us exactly, they have some unique skill sets and what works for them may be hard for us to pull off. Its also hard for us to do what the Hawks do. But I do think we need to know how to defend this tactic & shut it down - all teams need to work it out now or we will see another 2013 Cats flag.

What we need to do is play to our strengths - base our game plan around what we can do well - and there is plenty. I have a few thoughts on the way we should play based on the personnel we have, but probably not the right place to post here - maybe over in the Nathan Buckley Coaching thread thats sprung up.

Right now we can't play the way I think we should as we are missing some keys and I think that is what Buckley is struggling with. For now we need to find other ways to win, even if its ugly. This would be a hard balance for Bucks as he needs to get them playing the way he wants, but that may mean some short term pain on the scoreboard especially with some key players missing or he can concentrate on 4 points and try and ramp things up at the end of the year when he knows what tools he has to work with.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Heath Shaw offered 1 week for striking Ballantyne

James Kelly been offered 2 for hit on Goddard

 

[Ron]

Shaw you are such a dickhead. No need for that shit.

Anyone know the total points? If we challenge will it remain as one week?

 

[Paddywhackers]

Heath Shaw offered 1 week for striking Ballantyne

James Kelly been offered 2 for hit on Goddard

****... big loss....