Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

You bring up the Sin question and then answer it yourself; no matter what a Christian says about sin, you have your pov, and that is it.

What pov? you are again making it about me when it's not about me. Sin is a societal construction, what was sin 2,000 years ago is no longer a sin, or vice versa...this is undeniable, you admitted it yourself many times that slavery was ok back then. So how did YOU as a 21st century person figure out this is wrong? Nothing in the Bible that states slavery is wrong or being an atheist isn't sinful?

Do you have an innate opinion on what constitutes sin in 2024, in your life? Do you need a fixed catechismic definition that holds for perpetuity, otherwise sin is null and void"?

It's completely subjective. You can’t get two people on the planet to agree on what is morally right. There are literally devout Christians on both sides of every moral issue. Slavery, abortion, war, death penalty, stem cell research, genocide, etc. If the Bible can’t even bring clarity on such moral issues what good is it at all? Certainly not objective. I don't think you will disagree that if someone murdered Hitler or Pol pot, it will be a sin. So murder can be good, depending on the context. Stealing, you can apply the same logic, Robin Hood was a hero, yet he was a thief. If you read the tale of our very own Jandamarra , he was our hero but a thief in many books. CONTEXT!

 

[Total Power]

You say I still lose. Sorry for you TP. That will not be proven until ... who knows when. And yes, we all sin, and there IS a choice. You can bleat about the unfairness of this, or ponder the possibility that it is true. At least you have been aware of the choices. Can not plead ignorance.
OR
you are correct, and what do Christians lose?

There's is no choice if it's in the system! If i have a psychopathic gene in me, i will be a psychopath..i have no control over it. Do you think people who are cold blooded killers feel any empathy like you and i? they are helpless! they are sick! it's not their fault to an extent that they are born with that in that brain (this is science btw). Similarly according to the Christian we are born with the Original Sin. Are you denying your own theology now? we are born with it. Means no one can stop sinning according to Christianity, the only route is salvation through Christ.

According to your legend Saul, he said there has never been a sinless man on earth. If it was a choice, then there would be one...but since there isn't a choice sinners will sin.

But great to see you are arguing against your own theology..you still have hope!

 

[liz]

As if anybody here does not know or understand what sin is- it's more a question of accepting sin is departure from God's way.

Since you define sin in relation to a concept (God) that many on here think is a human construction only, how would we know or understand sin?

 

[Roylion]

And yes, we all sin,

No we don’t. I am sinless. Always was and always will be.

 

[Roylion]

Mine- Succumbing to the temptations of this material world when you know deep down, that choice was flawed because it is against the teachings of God.

There are no teachings of ‘God’. Any claim as to any body of man-made literature being the teachings of any God is merely an unsubstantiated claim derived from man’s imagination. These so called “teachings of god” are really the teachings of man.

Basically separation from God by doing things known to be disobedient to His will,

Man has no knowledge of “God’s will” other than what they have imagined it to be.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Since you define sin in relation to a concept (God) that many on here think is a human construction only, how would we know or understand sin?

Exactly what I wanted to say.

 

[Vdubs]

Since you define sin in relation to a concept (God) that many on here think is a human construction only, how would we know or understand sin?

Well, as you have been told that God could exist, and could be our Creator, and that sin separates us from Him, it is your choice to accept or reject that. I get that all of you vehemently reject it, so there is no need to keep questioning it. But there is no point in pretending you are ignorant of what sin is in your life- you have a conscience, and you tell me where conscience comes from, and why we feel guilty if we hurt people, or wrong them.

 

[Vdubs]

There's is no choice if it's in the system! If i have a psychopathic gene in me, i will be a psychopath..i have no control over it. Do you think people who are cold blooded killers feel any empathy like you and i? they are helpless! they are sick! it's not their fault to an extent that they are born with that in that brain (this is science btw). Similarly according to the Christian we are born with the Original Sin. Are you denying your own theology now? we are born with it. Means no one can stop sinning according to Christianity, the only route is salvation through Christ.

According to your legend Saul, he said there has never been a sinless man on earth. If it was a choice, then there would be one...but since there isn't a choice sinners will sin.

But great to see you are arguing against your own theology..you still have hope!

Totally agree, we are all sinners, always have been, original sin, or whatever you want to call it, operates now as always, and as you said, Christ is the way.

 

[Boston tiger]

Are atheists psychopaths?

 

[GrayRanga]

Are atheists psychopaths?

Nah

As the concept of Dog, heaven, hell and sin are human constructs; Sociopaths

 

[Roylion]

Totally agree, we are all sinners,

I’m not.

 

[Roylion]

Well, as you have been told that God could exist,

There is no evidence to support that claim.

and could be our Creator,

No evidence exists to support that claim either.

and that sin separates us from Him,

That concept is a product of human imagination.

it is your choice to accept or reject that. I get that all of you vehemently reject it, so there is no need to keep questioning it.

Then stop continually claiming it is true.

you have a conscience, and you tell me where conscience comes from,

I’ve previously explained that to you here. There is no evidence it is from “God”.

 

[Total Power]

Totally agree, we are all sinners, always have been, original sin, or whatever you want to call it, operates now as always, and as you said, Christ is the way.

Hahah so finally you have given in to your faux claim that it's a 'choice'. Good, it's a start...i still have hope for you.

If it's not a choice, so why all the hassle, all this hassle to get people in the boys club and get people to praise and follow you? God didn't know we will sin cause we were 'made' sinners????? he obviously knew.

Sheesh, talk about attention seeking wh0re. What is there to like about this deity? Temper tantrums, attention seeking disorder, bipolar disease etc, this deity seems to have it all. There are Gospels (which weren't included in the NT) which states that it's a work of devil to fool you to believing that's it's the word of god, you realise that right?

Christ is your way, not the way. 'The' way doesn't exist.

Either way i just explained to you why sin is a societal construct. Sin in reality, doesn't exist..it's a made up concept which depends on the context of events but don't let me interrupt you from parroting the same tired old debunked lines.

 

[Total Power]

Well, as you have been told that God could exist, and could be our Creator, and that sin separates us from Him, it is your choice to accept or reject that. I get that all of you vehemently reject it, so there is no need to keep questioning it. But there is no point in pretending you are ignorant of what sin is in your life- you have a conscience, and you tell me where conscience comes from, and why we feel guilty if we hurt people, or wrong them.

Not from the Bible for sure, otherwise you will be owning slaves, kicking women out, burning atheists and stoning masturbators etc. Where does conscience come from? great question, maybe look into evolutionary biology? How do dolphins have conscience?

 

[Vindicater]

Totally agree, we are all sinners, always have been, original sin, or whatever you want to call it, operates now as always, and as you said, Christ is the way.

I am not a sinner.

 

[Vdubs]

There is no evidence to support that claim.


No evidence exists to support that claim either.


That concept is a product of human imagination.


Then stop continually claiming it is true.

I’ve previously explained that to you here. There is no evidence it is from “God”.

All theory. Go for it.

 

[Roylion]

All theory. Go for it.

More supporting evidence exists for the explanation I presented here, than for the existence of "God".

 

[Total Power]

All theory. Go for it.

Theory has supporting evidence to it, unlike your claim(s) with zero evidence for anything. (not like you need it, but still...some people do)

 

[liz]

But there is no point in pretending you are ignorant of what sin is in your life- you have a conscience, and you tell me where conscience comes from, and why we feel guilty if we hurt people, or wrong them.

There’s very little common ground between your concept of sin and my concept of morality.

One major difference is the ‘authority’. Kohlberg’s model of moral development argues there are six stages of moral development, though you can collapse that into three broad stages. The first (of the three) sees morality as obedience. Children typically have this stage fully developed by around the age of eight. Their sense of right and wrong is dictated by punishment (by parents, by teachers or other figures of authority). That is, they modify their behaviour for fear of direct punishment.

The second broad phase starts to develop through puberty and into early adulthood and takes as its reference point what society deems to be acceptable. So some possibility of punishment for transgression remains, but people can divorce the act from the personal consequences. They have some concept of what society deems acceptable regardless of personal consequences.

The third broad stage continues to develop through adulthood, and Kohlbeeg was of the view that many (even most) don’t get there, or even develop beyond the end of the second broad phase. It’s a bit fuzzy at times, and is as much concerned with modes of reasoning as it is about moral answers. Nonetheless it is about moving beyond what society deems acceptable towards some kind of independent (or absolute) sense of morality.

Of course, the concept of absolute morality is complex and contested. It ignores the obvious cultural variations in morality. But we see evidence of that later phase at work just by the way individual cultures’ concepts of right and wrong shift over time. If we all abided just by society’s current concepts of right and wrong we would never see changes. We’d still have slavery. We’d still demonise homosexuaility. (Oh wait, some still do.)

It’s always seemed to me that the Christian concept of sin is stuck in that first phase. The one that most of us grow out of as we move from childhood through puberty. It’s rooted in an authority figure and punishment.

Though I guess, from a Christian perspective, if you ask for forgiveness it all goes away and you can continue transgressing, like a spoilt with doting parents who won’t actually impose discipline. Which may be why so many figures who claims to be devout Christians engage in - repeatedly - behaviours that transgress the biblical writings on sin (eg adultery, greed) and in some cases violate broader society’s sense of right and wrong (eg the behaviour of churches in enabling and covering up sexual abuse, especially of children under their pastoral care).

 

[carltonchelsea]

All theory. Go for it.

“It’s just a theory..” Derp.
Why don’t you test “Theory of Gravity” by jumping off a tall building for example?
Or you could ingest some isotopes and test “Atomic Theory”?
If not why not?
You strike me as someone that’d never read the arguments against your Christian beliefs.
You get to bit that goes against and that cognitive dissonance kicks and you throw the book or laptop out the window, yelling “praise Jesus” and do one of tongue speaking sessions, even though it’s against your catholic faith.

 

[Boston tiger]

Sin is what stops you from being happy. Sin may give you pleasure but humanity has worked out over thousands of years what actually makes you happy and what stops you from gaining joy /happiness peace etc .

 

[Roylion]

Sin is what stops you from being happy.

So that's why I'm so happy. I'm sinless.

Sin may give you pleasure but humanity has worked out over thousands of years what actually makes you happy

Has humanity? Well there you go. It appears I don't need 'God' for 'happiness'.

 

[liz]

but humanity has worked out over thousands of years what actually makes you happy and what stops you from gaining joy /happiness peace etc .

Has it? If humanity had worked that out we might have less material greed in our society.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Sin is what stops you from being happy. Sin may give you pleasure but humanity has worked out over thousands of years what actually makes you happy and what stops you from gaining joy /happiness peace etc .

Utter jibberish with not one redeeming facilitation of pure individuality of thought.
NEXT

 

[Vdubs]

“It’s just a theory..” Derp.
Why don’t you test “Theory of Gravity” by jumping off a tall building for example?
Or you could ingest some isotopes and test “Atomic Theory”?
If not why not?
You strike me as someone that’d never read the arguments against your Christian beliefs.
You get to bit that goes against and that cognitive dissonance kicks and you throw the book or laptop out the window, yelling “praise Jesus” and do one of tongue speaking sessions, even though it’s against your catholic faith.

You strike me as judgemental, when you don't know anyone of us from ...and whether I'd actually lived for years as a non-believer.
Believers have seen THE LIGHT.
We do not need pages of theories and arguments to work out if God, Creation, Jesus can be proved.
I have said all along, FAITH is critical in the life of a Christian, and if we are in the minority and on the outer, so be it.
It does not edify my faith arguing the points, but when I read all your arguments, I truly believe you guys are stumbling in the dark, despite your well researched theories.