Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[barreness]

You need to update your scripts tovarisch

We were talking about gas supply to china and now you've changed to oil supply to central Europe through Ukraine(which will apparently stop next year?). I wish you had a script tbh, might actually make a cognisant point

Germany's industrial sector is just fine.

Nah
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-industrial-production-expected-to-sink-further/a-68885656

Netherlands have Europe's biggest gas field that's untapped.

This one?
https://www.reuters.com/business/en...anently-close-groningen-gas-field-2024-04-16/
The Dutch Senate on Tuesday approved a law to permanently close the Groningen gas field

Also the trade relationship you describe with China is forced so I guess we can say you got that one right.

Forced? Is it at gunpoint

However there are problems



Any other new pipelines are going to take years and result in gas supplied at much lower prices than European customers with existing infrastructure in place.

True, which you can say about any gas going into europe, LNG from the US or the middle east cost 2-3x the price

If Putin was smart he would withdraw from Ukraine completely and do a bilateral gas deal with the EU.

Unfortunately he is a raging fascist with delusions of a new Russian Empire & a "final solution" for Ukraine / Ukrainians.

Lol, final solution. Take your hand off it

 

[barreness]

My objection was the use of the word crackdown (deal severely) in your initial post.
Your use of the words "distance itself'" is more accurate.

Ok so basically banning the Russian language in the public sphere not a crackdown?

 

[barreness]

Why are you both-sidesing every event and aspect of this war when one country, and one country alone, commenced hostilities?

Because it's more complicated than Putin is Hitler.

Inability to see Russian concerns has led to the war, it was avoidable

 

[wannabejack]

Ok so basically banning the Russian language in the public sphere not a crackdown?

Banning -officially or legally prohibit

‘The Russian language is banned in Ukraine’, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told the BBC in April 2022. But it isn’t.

The repeated claim, part of Russia’s pretext for invasion, is a reminder of the fraught political context of language policy in Ukraine. Russian is not banned in the country, but the use of Ukrainian is indeed compulsory in most aspects of public life. Efforts to solidify the use of Ukrainian are part of broader attempts to reinforce national identity after varying degrees of suppression and Russification dating back to even before the Soviet period.

Caught in the crossfire: Minority languages in Ukraine - Minority Rights Group

Linguistic freedom must not become collateral damage in the fight for Ukraine’s freedom. All minority or indigenous languages in Ukraine must be protected from discrimination.

minorityrights.org

 

[barreness]

Banning -officially or legally prohibit

‘The Russian language is banned in Ukraine’, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told the BBC in April 2022. But it isn’t.

The repeated claim, part of Russia’s pretext for invasion, is a reminder of the fraught political context of language policy in Ukraine. Russian is not banned in the country, but the use of Ukrainian is indeed compulsory in most aspects of public life. Efforts to solidify the use of Ukrainian are part of broader attempts to reinforce national identity after varying degrees of suppression and Russification dating back to even before the Soviet period.

Caught in the crossfire: Minority languages in Ukraine - Minority Rights Group

Linguistic freedom must not become collateral damage in the fight for Ukraine’s freedom. All minority or indigenous languages in Ukraine must be protected from discrimination.

minorityrights.org

Post 1,240.

There's numerous efforts to limit use of the Russian language. There are legal requirements and limits, true not an outright ban but still essentially functions that way

 

[Zidane98]

Ok so basically banning the Russian language in the public sphere not a crackdown?

Stop lying. Russian language is NOT banned in the public sphere.

No, the Russian language was not banned from Ukraine

Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently doubled down on an inaccurate statement he’s made before: that Ukraine ba

www.politifact.com

The official language is Ukranian. The actual law says government officials can communicate in any language if it suits both parties.

Incredible you are repeating blatant Russian lies this far into the war. Just like your lies about Ukranian nationalism it's obvious what sort of poster you are.

 

[wannabejack]

Post 1,240.

There's numerous efforts to limit use of the Russian language. There are legal requirements and limits, true not an outright ban but still essentially functions that way

No, the Russian language was not banned from Ukraine

Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently doubled down on an inaccurate statement he’s made before: that Ukraine ba

www.politifact.com

Lavrov is mischaracterizing a Ukrainian language law. It does not ban Russian from the country. So far you have used the words crackdown and banned as has Lavrov.
The laws approved in Ukraine do not single out Russian but apply to minority languages.

In April 2019, Ukraine’s parliament approved a language law making Ukrainian the mandatory language for public sector workers. The adoption of this law required citizens to know Ukrainian and obliged civil servants, soldiers, doctors and teachers to communicate in Ukrainian.

In January 2022, a new provision of the law was introduced, under which print media outlets registered in Ukraine were required to publish in Ukrainian. This did not ban publications in other languages. Instead, the law required that all content also be published in Ukrainian.

 

[wannabejack]

Stop lying. Russian language is NOT banned in the public sphere.

No, the Russian language was not banned from Ukraine

Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently doubled down on an inaccurate statement he’s made before: that Ukraine ba

www.politifact.com

The official language is Ukranian. The actual law says government officials can communicate in any language if it suits both parties.

Incredible you are repeating blatant Russian lies this far into the war. Just like your lies about Ukranian nationalism it's obvious what sort of poster you are.

Got in before me

 

[Zidane98]

Because it's more complicated than Putin is Hitler.

Inability to see Russian concerns has led to the war, it was avoidable

It isn't complicated at all.

Putin reckons Ukraine is Russia, Ukranians are really Russian and the whole country is owed to Russia.

That's all what it boils down to. Considering Putin was never open to changing his fascist ideology a war was absolutely inevitable. His aid recently said from day one he was obsessed with Ukraine and always saw himself as a modern day Tsar, taking back Russian territory for the greater good of the new Russian empire.


Being a vassal state of Russia was never going to work for Ukraine. Post Soviet / Warsaw states that have broken away from Russia hegemony proves this point. They've been there, done that. There is now no way back for Russia, ever. Putin knows this and tries to hang on to his dream by invading & attacking Ukraine but this will not change the status quo. Putin cannot maintain a unilateral invasion for ever, his hope was always that Ukraine would bend over for him. This is never happening, Ukraine has too much support from around the world while the only support Russia can garner is human rights abusing dictators. The average Russian did not agree to this.

 

[wannabejack]

Because it's more complicated than Putin is Hitler.

Inability to see Russian concerns has led to the war, it was avoidable

You must be referring to russian concerns that Ukraine wants to exist as a sovereign nation and that russia can’t fulfill its imperialistic ambitions.

 

[jatz14]

No, the Russian language was not banned from Ukraine

Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently doubled down on an inaccurate statement he’s made before: that Ukraine ba

www.politifact.com

Lavrov is mischaracterizing a Ukrainian language law. It does not ban Russian from the country. So far you have used the words crackdown and banned as has Lavrov.
The laws approved in Ukraine do not single out Russian but apply to minority languages.

In April 2019, Ukraine’s parliament approved a language law making Ukrainian the mandatory language for public sector workers. The adoption of this law required citizens to know Ukrainian and obliged civil servants, soldiers, doctors and teachers to communicate in Ukrainian.

In January 2022, a new provision of the law was introduced, under which print media outlets registered in Ukraine were required to publish in Ukrainian. This did not ban publications in other languages. Instead, the law required that all content also be published in Ukrainian.

So, like English in Australia. Those fascists.

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[Aussie in exile]

Thanks for the history lesson.
'The Master and Margarita' is my favourite Russian book.
Fave Ukraine book 'Challenge Management'.
View attachment 2097867

Personally I'd give it 4.5 stars.

Little man Putin sending 100's of 1,000's of Russian to their deaths all for his little man syndrome

MSN

 

[Aussie in exile]

You're so silly man.

How is it forced? You are one of few customers that will buy our gas currently, will you buy some more, sure build pipeline, trade happens

Did you miss nord stream? their most profitable pipeline was blown up by Ukrainians(or US state dept etc), killing Germany's industrial sector. Russian gas still comes into Europe but only through Ukrainian pipelines so they can profit, they haven't refused shit if they can get coin off it which they are in dire need of

More bad news for Russia and little legs.Happy days.

MSN

 

[barreness]

So, like English in Australia. Those fascists.

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It'd be more like mandating English in Canada, not sure the Quebecois would be stoked

 

[rank and file]

Little man Putin sending 100's of 1,000's of Russian to their deaths all for his little man syndrome

MSN

You forgot the illegal invasion bit.
Best little man builds more cemeteries then and Big man should build a few as well,will drag on for a bit.

 

[Zidane98]

It'd be more like mandating English in Canada, not sure the Quebecois would be stoked

English is the official language of Canada along with French. So nothing like Russian in Ukraine at all.

French isn't the official language of Louisiana however it is still spoken widely there being a remnant of the French Empire.

Russian is spoken widely in Ukraine in exactly the same way even though the official language of Ukraine is Ukrainian (a difficult concept to understand for vatniks).

 

[jatz14]

It'd be more like mandating English in Canada, not sure the Quebecois would be stoked

Or like mandating French? Those evil Quebecois, English speaking Canada should probably invade, to save English speaking Quebecois from linguistic oppression.

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[Zidane98]

Or like mandating French? Those evil Quebecois, English speaking Canada should probably invade, to save English speaking Quebecois from linguistic oppression.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I heard Canada is thinking of banning croissants nationwide. Probably enough to justify an invasion / occupation by France to denazify the joint.

 

[wannabejack]

An example of what could have occurred if russia didn’t use “ethnic russians” as one of many excuses to invade.

Ukraine has improved conditions for its Hungarian minority. It might not be enough for Viktor Orbán

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has long accused Ukraine's government of violating the rights of an ethnic Hungarian community in Ukraine.

apnews.com

Ok, it’s not perfect but it wasn’t an excuse to invade Ukraine.

Ukraine’s government has “gone beyond the nation-building effort that characterized the past years, and now takes into account the interests of not only the majority nation, but also of all minorities and indigenous peoples living on the territory of the country,” he added.

Still, he said, the MCC strives to instill tolerance and respect between the region’s cultures, and offers Ukrainian lessons for Hungarian students that learn it as a second language. Coexistence, he said, had long been a given, before broader conflicts enveloped the region.

“Very often, the ethnic tensions that enter this multi-ethnic space come from outside,” he said. “The inhabitants who live side by side, the natives of this area, basically have no problems with each other. Many times this is an artificially generated flaring of tensions.”

 

[IlovethePies]

Zelensky is a stooge of US and NATO imperialism who is offering up the male population of Ukraine as cannon fodder for the geopolitical interests of US and European imperialism.

In doing so, he and a layer of Ukrainian financial oligarchs are making millions and living in the lap of luxury.

Extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalists/fascists are supporting Zelensky.

The war in Ukraine is a proxy war of US/NATO against Russia.

The aim is: the overthrow of Putin (most likely by elements within Russia who oppose Putin and see their future in collaboration with US and NATO governments).

Dismembering Russia into impotent statelets, which can be easily plundered for markets, raw materials and cheap labour by US/European corporations.

 

[Rob R]

Zelensky is a stooge of US and NATO imperialism who is offering up the male population of Ukraine as cannon fodder for the geopolitical interests of US and European imperialism.

In doing so, he and a layer of Ukrainian financial oligarchs are making millions and living in the lap of luxury.

Extreme right wing Ukrainian nationalists/fascists are supporting Zelensky.

The war in Ukraine is a proxy war of US/NATO against Russia.

The aim is: the overthrow of Putin (most likely by elements within Russia who oppose Putin and see their future in collaboration with US and NATO governments).

Dismembering Russia into impotent statelets, which can be easily plundered for markets, raw materials and cheap labour by US/European corporations.

Nice fantasy, did you get from Russian press or the global times?

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[IlovethePies]

Nice fantasy, did you get from Russian press or the global times?

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

How do you know that your assumptions are not fantasy? Did you get them from "the Age", or the ABC, or US press...?

 

[Mobbs]

As you have no links to evidential basis for each claim I'll assume what you're presenting are just your own thoughts? Fair enough, no law against surmising.

Assuming this, what do you think is the intended purpose for the other 78% of the Ukrainian military? You know, the female population ... are they mayhap to be delivered to Bohemian Grove?

Zelensky is a stooge of US and NATO imperialism who is offering up the male population of Ukraine as cannon fodder for the geopolitical interests of US and European imperialism.

 

[EagleMan87]

How do you know that your assumptions are not fantasy? Did you get them from "the Age", or the ABC, or US press...?

Whereas you get yours from a crack pipe.

 

[Mobbs]

How do you know that your assumptions are not fantasy? Did you get them from "the Age", or the ABC, or US press...?

List is a little out of date now, some links might have changed or been replaced.

Independent Russian News Source Channels (on the RF hate list):
Meduza/mediazone - [Telegram] [website] [Facebook]
BBC Russia - [Telegram] [Website]
Novaya Gazeta - [Telegram] [website] [Facebook] [Youtube]
Astra - [Telegram]
Kommersant - [website]
The Insider - [website]
TV Rain/Dozhd - they had Youtube but I unsubbed because no subtitles
Radio Ekho - [Youtube]

Russian News Source Channels (careful with what they say):
Sibirmedia - [Telegram]
Tayga.info - [Telegram] [website]

Ukrainian repost channels (very pro-Ukraine):
Ukraine In Shock - [Telegram]
Trukha Ukraina - [Telegram]
No War In Ukraine - [Telegram]

Local Ukrainian regional channels:
Kherson Huiviy - [Telegram]
Svatove City - [Telegram]
Severodonetsk News - [Telegram]
Luhansk OBA - [Telegram]
Servant Of The People - [Telegram]

Youtubers:
Denis Davydov - [Telegram] [Youtube]
Operator Starsky - [Youtube]
Butusov Plus - [Youtube]
Terra Ops UA - [Youtube]

Maps of Frontline Movements:
DeepState UA - [Telegram] (pro-Ukraine but keen on accuracy)

Russian repost channels:
Baza - [Telegram]
The Bugle - []Telegram]

Additional Russian channels of interest:
SOTA Project - [Telegram]
DOTA (Russian Uni Community) - [Telegram]

Political incarcerations in Russia:
OVD-Info - [Telegram] [website]
Freedom For Sasha Skochilenko - [Telegram] (covers other political prisoners from the war as well)