Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[barreness]

"Hitler's Ukrainian puppet" is the lie. Misuse of his legacy might perhaps be outside his range of influence, wouldn't you think?

I'll file this alongside the conflation of "coup" with "revolution" via a conjoined "coup/revolution" phrase, and yet another attempt to assert Azov batallion is pro-nazi.

I mean kinda, He foolishly expected some independence for siding with the Nazi's(forgot they hated slavs). He was more than happy to partake in the pogroms and massacres that nationalists ignore

Azov was going to be the mujahadeen in a captured state, too good at their job lol. It's hard to rationalise using waffen ss symbols though, like why?

 

[Mobbs]

I mean kinda, He foolishly expected some independence for siding with the Nazi's(forgot they hated slavs). He was more than happy to partake in the pogroms and massacres that nationalists ignore

Stepan Bandera at no time sided with the nazis. It's all documented in the chain of War in Ukraine threads, but I'm sure you know full well and are just Tuckering now.

 

[Mobbs]

Anyway this thread annoys me. I'll be over in the thread where Russia is committing atrocities right now. Cheers.

 

[barreness]

Stepan Bandera at no time sided with the nazis. It's all documented in the chain of War in Ukraine threads, but I'm sure you know full well and are just Tuckering now.

Ummmmmmm, ok

German military intelligence recruited OUN members into the Bergbauernhilfe unit and smuggled Ukrainian nationalists into Poland in order to erode Polish defences by conducting a terror campaign directed at Polish farmers and Jews. OUN leaders Andriy Melnyk (code name Consul I) and Bandera (code name Consul II) both served as agents of the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr Second Department

Bandera together with other OUN members, moved to Kraków, the capital of Germany's occupational General Government.[47] where, according to Tadeusz Piotrowski, he established close connections with the German Abwehr and Wehrmacht.

the OUN-B faction, led by Bandera, supported a revolutionary approach; however, both factions exhibited similar levels of radical nationalism, fascism, antisemitism, xenophobia and violence.[14][52][53] The vast majority of young OUN members joined Bandera's faction. OUN-B was devoted to the independence of Ukraine, as a single-party fascist totalitarian state free of national minorities.[54][nb 2][59] It was later implicated in the Holocaust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#World_War_II

edit, sorry one more from the same article
with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, the OUN-B unilaterally declared an independent Ukrainian state ("Act of Renewal of Ukrainian Statehood").[68][69] The proclamation pledged a cooperation of the new Ukrainian state with Nazi Germany under the leadership of Hitler.

 

[barreness]

Anyway this thread annoys me. I'll be over in the thread where Russia is committing atrocities right now. Cheers.

Gets hot on the kitchen

 

[Mobbs]

Ummmmmmm, ok

German military intelligence recruited OUN members into the Bergbauernhilfe unit and smuggled Ukrainian nationalists into Poland in order to erode Polish defences by conducting a terror campaign directed at Polish farmers and Jews. OUN leaders Andriy Melnyk (code name Consul I) and Bandera (code name Consul II) both served as agents of the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr Second Department

Bandera together with other OUN members, moved to Kraków, the capital of Germany's occupational General Government.[47] where, according to Tadeusz Piotrowski, he established close connections with the German Abwehr and Wehrmacht.

the OUN-B faction, led by Bandera, supported a revolutionary approach; however, both factions exhibited similar levels of radical nationalism, fascism, antisemitism, xenophobia and violence.[14][52][53] The vast majority of young OUN members joined Bandera's faction. OUN-B was devoted to the independence of Ukraine, as a single-party fascist totalitarian state free of national minorities.[54][nb 2][59] It was later implicated in the Holocaust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#World_War_II

edit, sorry one more from the same article
with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, the OUN-B unilaterally declared an independent Ukrainian state ("Act of Renewal of Ukrainian Statehood").[68][69] The proclamation pledged a cooperation of the new Ukrainian state with Nazi Germany under the leadership of Hitler.

A lot of Wikipedia text instead of articles. If you break it down into the source articles I can go at it. But almost all the above is already treated by my documents in the "War In Ukraine" thread.

Bandera was as much a campaigner as most people with any access of power, especially prior to the Nazi invasion of Ukraine but he was never at any point in league with Nazi Germany. He literally rushed back to Ukraine to defend it against the Nazis, but was captured and imprisoned. Search the War In Ukraine threads for his name to learn more.

Gets hot on the kitchen

Is that why you're over here with your pro-Russian rhetoric, and talking about Australia & the USA over there?

 

[barreness]

A lot of Wikipedia text instead of articles. If you break it down into the source articles I can go at it. But almost all the above is already treated by my documents in the "War In Ukraine" thread.

The sources are all linked, that's how wiki works

But yeh sure I'll have a flick back and look at your posts

Bandera was as much a campaigner as most people with any access of power, especially prior to the Nazi invasion of Ukraine but he was never at any point in league with Nazi Germany. He literally rushed back to Ukraine to defend it against the Nazis, but was captured and imprisoned. Search the War In Ukraine threads for his name to learn more.

He made a critical error in siding with the Germans but that doesn't mean he wasn't a fascist and participated in/ordered massacres.

Poland is still pretty pissed with Ukraine's denial of these things
https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/07...l-ww2-massacre-issue-resolved-says-deputy-pm/
Poland’s deputy prime minister has said that Ukraine cannot be admitted to the European Union until the two countries “resolve” the controversial issue of the Volynia massacres, in which Ukrainian nationalists killed around 100,000 ethnic Poles during World War Two.

Is that why you're over here with your pro-Russian rhetoric, and talking about Australia & the USA over there?

My post have been moved around between the threads. Kinda understandable because I was debunking weird history fantasies from certain members(not you)

Don't think my rhetoric has changed though

 

[Present Not Past]

Sometimes they last for decades

How exactly are they going to achieve that

Russia can't win this war (oh sorry, special military ****up).
The same way Germany lost the the Second World War, Russia also will be forced to the eventual negotiation table with an ultimatum of unconditional surrender, of occupied territories.

 

[barreness]

Russia can't win this war (oh sorry, special military ****up).

The US hasn't declared war since Pearl harbour, it's not been the done thing for a while

The same way Germany lost the the Second World War, Russia also will be forced to the eventual negotiation table with an ultimatum of unconditional surrender, of occupied territories.

Lol, so Moscow is going to fall and be occupied from multiple fronts?

You lot have been propagandised up to the elbow. The US and NATO in general is notably backing up for an eventual negotiation, Ukraine aren't getting those oblasts back, though they have fought bravely

 

[barreness]

The only person saying that Moscow will be taken is you.
It's like your safe place.

You raised germany and ww2, that was your end scenario of this war, that means the capital is taken right?

 

[Present Not Past]

You raised germany and ww2, that was your end scenario of this war, that means the capital is taken right?

Well you tell me m8.
Did Berlin fall in World War I for Germany to come to the negotiation table?

 

[barreness]

Well you tell me m8.
Did Berlin fall in World War I for Germany to come to the negotiation table?

Ummmm are we changing wars now?

No it didn't, are you retracting your original argument?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Man I did link it, the ICC is for Africans. The whitest they'll go is some former Yugoslavia. Every American President would be in the Hague dungeon if it wasn't political

Where's Bibi's warrant?

ok, that took a lot of paywall rumbling to get through but this is the source

'according to Kremlin documents seen by i'

I news is the daily mail, it's an article from 2 and a half years ago and there's been no follow up, nor did they post the 'Kremlin document'. Any recent follow up on the gulag meme here?


Probably a little risky throwing out fascist shoutouts in the heartland of the soviet union that lost 27 million to the Nazis's

How many times? 700k is an insane number, Ukraine would barely have 700k in total prewar. The Russian kids minister has said 1500 have been moved, seems a reasonable figure

War is peace, peace is war..........something something Orwell warned

You seem to keep forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine illegaly

 

[Aussie in exile]

Well there are statues of Stalin everywhere in the so called Russian Federation and he is the ultimate Soviet Nazi collaborator.

Which barreness keeps forgetting

 

[Mobbs]

The sources are all linked, that's how wiki works

But yeh sure I'll have a flick back and look at your posts

He made a critical error in siding with the Germans but that doesn't mean he wasn't a fascist and participated in/ordered massacres.

Poland is still pretty pissed with Ukraine's denial of these things
https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/07...l-ww2-massacre-issue-resolved-says-deputy-pm/
Poland’s deputy prime minister has said that Ukraine cannot be admitted to the European Union until the two countries “resolve” the controversial issue of the Volynia massacres, in which Ukrainian nationalists killed around 100,000 ethnic Poles during World War Two.

My post have been moved around between the threads. Kinda understandable because I was debunking weird history fantasies from certain members(not you)

Don't think my rhetoric has changed though

Wikipedia is a great site when there aren't disinformation gains to be made via the content. Tomorrow the same page could show Bandera to be a golden angel with feathery wings. Most of that article is at first glance true for associations Bandera had connections with, but not for him.

When the Volhynia massacres were carried out, Bandera was in a concentration camp. Poles are definitely pissed about it, but its got nothing to do with Stepan Bandera. Nazi Germany did release him thinking he'd be a handy tool due to his hatred for the soviet rule, but he had no intention of collaborating.

This is a conflation of Bandera with groups that at other times Bandera was associated with. The OUN, Galician groups, and even the term "Banderite" do not a Stepan Bandera make. All these latter terms though did indeed have instances of collusion with Nazi Germany.

 

[Mobbs]

Here's a start:

Myths about Bandera: how the Ukrainian fighter for independence became the scarecrow of Putin's propaganda
Bronislav Khmara
April 15, 2022

ÐиÑÑ Ð¾ ÐандеÑе: как ÑкÑаинÑкий боÑÐµÑ Ð·Ð° незавиÑимоÑÑÑ ÑÑал пÑгалом пÑÑинÑкой пÑопагандÑ

ÐолÑÑÑÑ ÑаÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð¹Ð½Ñ Ð¡Ñепан ÐандеÑа пÑоÑидел в немеÑком конÑлагеÑе, а на его поÑледоваÑелей оÑоÑилиÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑиÑÑÑкие ÑпеÑÑлÑжбÑ. Тем не менее именно ÐандеÑÑ ÑовеÑÑкаÑ, а вÑлед за ней и...

theins.ru

For most of the war, Stepan Bandera spent time in a German concentration camp, while Nazi secret services hunted his followers. Nevertheless, it is Bandera that is depicted by the Soviet, and after her, Putin’s propaganda as the most odious Hitler’s henchman, and the Bandera people, who made their way from historical militias to a collective figure of social imagination, became a pretext for a “special military operation” to “denazify” Ukraine. In this material - the main thing you need to know about this historical character.

It is not known whether Stepan Bandera would have been so famous if it were not for Russian propaganda, which made him the hero of all television programs about Ukraine. In Ukraine itself, Bandera is perceived as a historical figure and a fighter for independence, originally a Bandera greeting “Glory to Ukraine! Glory to heroes!" nowadays it is used without any nationalist overtones.

Russian propaganda, meanwhile, continues to produce myths about the "Nazi" Stepan Bandera. The SS division "Galicia", formed in Ukraine from local volunteers, was declared the brainchild of Bandera, although neither he nor his followers had anything to do with it. A photo of Wehrmacht Major General Reinhard Gehlen, posing as Stepan Bandera, is also actively circulating, which allegedly proves that the latter wore a “fascist uniform” and was even awarded a “German cross”. There is no particular external resemblance between Gelen and Bandera, but the audience of VKontakte and Odnoklassniki does not pay attention to this.

What did the Bandera people actually fight and die for?
Stepan Bandera was a staunch fighter for the country's independence. The OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists), one of the factions of which Bandera would later head, was very far from the concepts used by German Nazism from the very beginning of its existence. In the ideology of the OUN, the main Nazi component was completely absent - the doctrine of racial and national exclusivity. Members of the OUN have never considered Ukrainians as a "superior race", but only sought "independence" (independence) for their nation, rescuing it from Polish and/or Russian (Soviet) dependence. The "Decalogue of the Ukrainian Nationalist", composed in 1929 by Stepan Lenkavsky (from 1941 to 1944 was under arrest in Auschwitz) and supported by Bandera, speaks of "hatred and uncompromising struggle" against the enemies of the nation, of pride in the Trizub symbol, contains an order to create a Ukrainian state or perish in the struggle, but there is nothing that would bring the OUN closer to the racism of the German Nazis or the imperial pathos of the Italian fascists. And although in this document Muscovy (imperial Russia and the USSR, inheriting, from the point of view of Ukrainian nationalists, not so much free Slavism as the tyrannical Tatar-Mongolian horde) is described as a “Tatar” enemy, the Bandera people themselves, unlike the Nazis, never quarreled with non-European peoples. In 1950, the official OUN publication “Who are the Banderaites and what are they fighting for” directly stated: “We oppose only the Bolshevik imperialists, regardless of social and national origin. And this is a vile lie, as if we hate all Soviet people indiscriminately. Moreover, Bandera sought to involve Asians in the fight against the USSR,“Song about an Uzbek” , which tells about a native of Central Asia who joined the Bandera and died in an unequal battle in Volyn. Over his grave, his comrades-in-arms sing:

So know well, what a marvelous grave
Union of captives sprinkled blood
Tse mi united all the faiths of the people
In the name of fighting against the enemies of freedom.

The struggle of “all faiths and peoples” against “enemies of freedom” is that part of Bandera’s ideology that greatly distances it from clerical and quasi-fascist political forms and brings it closer to national democratic ones. The idea of freedom, as opposed to imperial narratives of domination, allowed the OUN to evolve rapidly: in 1958, while in exile in Germany, Bandera characterized the Second World War as a clash of two "totalitarian predatory regimes", Hitlerism and Stalinism - a clash from which OUN activists tried to profit for a free Ukraine. In the 21st century, we are witnessing the further development of the Bandera political project, which continues to move away from its conservative origins and transform under the influence of history: in our time, many Bandera people speak Russian,

Who really was Stepan Bandera?
Bandera was born in 1909 to a Greek Catholic priest in the village of Stary Ugrinov, one of the settlements in the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, then part of the patchwork Habsburg Austria-Hungary. For the first time in his political activity, he was detained at the age of 13, but, since he did not pose a danger to the authorities as a boy, he was quickly released. In his student years, Bandera became a member of several Ukrainian nationalist groups at once, and later joined the OUN, where he established the production and delivery of underground periodicals.

Note that the OUN arose four years before Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany, and therefore, despite the assurances of a number of Soviet historians, it did not at all owe its existence to the latter. Was the OUN engaged in terrorism? If by such we mean bombing, which, for example, was used by the Russian People's Will and revolutionaries, then yes. The victims of such activities of the OUN were mainly political leaders of the hostile side. The most notorious was the murder of the Minister of Internal Affairs of Poland, Bronislaw Peratsky, who led the campaign of "pacification" ("peace enforcement") of the Ukrainian population of Poland - only according to official Polish data, in a few months in 1930, about two thousand Ukrainians were arrested in Galicia, who did not agree with the politics of Warsaw. On June 15, 1934, Peratsky was shot dead by an OUN activist, and before the court in this case, among others, 26-year-old Stepan Bandera appeared. The trial was conducted in Polish, and Bandera himself, shouting “Glory to Ukraine!”, was expelled from the hall. Those found guilty of organizing the murder were sentenced first to death and then to life imprisonment. Bandera was released from prison in September 1939 thanks to the "special military operation" of the Third Reich and the USSR in Poland. Then Galicia was in the power of the Soviets. Bandera was released from prison in September 1939 thanks to the "special military operation" of the Third Reich and the USSR in Poland. Then Galicia was in the power of the Soviets. Bandera was released from prison in September 1939 thanks to the "special military operation" of the Third Reich and the USSR in Poland. Then Galicia was in the power of the Soviets.

The Stalinist press portrayed the entry of the "Soviet liberators" into Western Ukraine as "the salvation of the fraternal people", who allegedly greeted the Red Army with flowers and treats. In fact, the transition from the Polish panship to the power of the commissars did not cause any enthusiasm among the inhabitants of Galicia. Nobody wanted to live on collective farms, to part with their native culture and the Uniate Church. Massive repressions immediately followed, especially against the OUN. In one show trial, known as the "Fifty-Nine Trial", 42 Ukrainians were sentenced to death, including one 16-year-old activist. In 1939–1941, the Bolsheviks deported hundreds of thousands of people from Western Ukraine without trial or investigation. The ferocity of the NKVD provoked a response activation of the nationalist underground. In February 1940, in German-occupied Krakow, Stepan Bandera proclaimed the creation of the "Revolutionary OUN". This faction of the movement called itself OUN-revolutionaries (OUN-r) or OUN-b (Bandera). The second faction - a group of supporters of Andrei Melnyk - along with the unofficial name "Melnykists" adhered to the original name of the OUN or called themselves OUN-solidarists (OUN-s). Later, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) was formed from among the Bandera people, operating under the command of the legendary Roman Shukhevych. The second faction - a group of supporters of Andrei Melnyk - along with the unofficial name "Melnykists" adhered to the original name of the OUN or called themselves OUN-solidarists (OUN-s). Later, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) was formed from among the Bandera people, operating under the command of the legendary Roman Shukhevych. The second faction - a group of supporters of Andrei Melnyk - along with the unofficial name "Melnykists" adhered to the original name of the OUN or called themselves OUN-solidarists (OUN-s). Later, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) was formed from among the Bandera people, operating under the command of the legendary Roman Shukhevych.

In Russia, little is said about the Melnikovites, but it was they, and not the Banderaites, who collaborated with the German occupiers after 1941. Bandera decided to fight for Ukrainian independence against everyone. The program of the Melnykists was less radical: in order to facilitate and streamline the life of Ukrainians during the occupation, they went to the formation of local self-governments, to one degree or another controlled by the German administration. However, the Nazis also had to restrain the Melnikovites, and often detain and persecute them. Thus, the Ukrainian National Rada proclaimed by the OUN in Kyiv was completely seized by the Gestapo. In response to the proclamation by Bandera on the radio captured in Lvov of the “Act of Restoring the Independence of Ukraine” on June 30, 1941, the occupied Ukrainians were made clear that in the near future they would not live in the Ukrainian State, and in the occupation districts and the Reichskommissariats. The hopes of some OUN activists that Germany would allow Ukraine to create something like a union Croatia or Slovakia did not come true. Stepan Bandera was sent to Sachsenhausen. There, but only in 1944, the more cautious and accommodating Melnik landed.

Soviet historians wrote that the Germans kept Bandera in a concentration camp "for appearances", in good conditions. In fact, he was kept in the manner common to politicians of those times. Not all Ukrainian nationalists came out of the German dungeons alive. In the same Sachsenhausen, prominent activists Ivan Gabrusevich from the OUN-b and Oles Kandyba-Olzhych from the OUN-m died during torture.

Soviet historians wrote that the Germans kept Bandera in a concentration camp "for appearances", in good conditions
Why did the Soviets choose Bandera and the Banderaites for the role of the main Hitlerite accomplices, and not Melnik or the Melnikovites? Apparently, they consciously or unconsciously reproduced the German-Nazi logic: since the Bandera people were more irreconcilable, fanatical, uncompromising and dangerous for any foreign power, whether it be German or Soviet, all kinds of enemy labels were hung on them. It is symptomatic that the Germans accused Bandera of having connections with Moscow, while Moscow after the war regarded them as "inveterate Nazis." The relatively moderate Melnikovites seemed insufficiently bright and dangerous. Putin's ideologists and propagandists, in turn, simply used the Soviet manuals they inherited.

Bandera against all
The Ukrainian nationalist underground was not homogeneous, they were not limited to Bandera and Melnikovites alone. There are still many stains in the history of the Volyn tragedy of 1943, when the Ukrainian rebels massacred the Polish civilian population: it was revenge for many years of oppression of Ukrainians by Poland, but the revenge is blind, cruel and criminal. Bandera, imprisoned in Sachsenhausen, did not take any part in the organization of those bloody events, and the head of the UPA, Roman Shukhevych, at the III Congress of the OUN in 1943, sharply condemned them. The topic of the Volyn massacre is liked to be raised by biased Russian historians who do not like the rapprochement between Ukrainians and Poles. The historical wound is gradually healing, and, as we can now see, it is Poland that is most actively helping Ukraine in the current catastrophic situation.

The fact remains that Ukrainian nationalists during the Second World War fought against the whole world - against the Polish paramilitaries, against the Red Army, against the pro-Soviet partisans, against the Nazis. This struggle was accompanied by cruelty from all sides, and elemental force often got out of control of one group or another.

There are a huge number of documents demonstrating distrust or outright hostility of the Third Reich towards Bandera. In November 1941, the Einsatzkommando of the Security Police and the SD reported that "the Bandera movement is preparing an uprising in the Reichskommissariat", and therefore his fighters should be captured and neutralized. The document signed by an SS officer was shown at the Nuremberg trials. Another interesting document was published in 1970 in the émigré Ukrainian press. This is an intercepted report of the Soviet intelligence addressed to I. V. Stalin dated December 5, 1942, which reports on the activities of the Ukrainian rebels and that the “big nationalist Bendera” was allegedly “shot by the Germans”. In 1941, the German Einsatzgruppe, operating in Poland, recorded the growing anti-German activity of the Banderites, who "promote national political ideas" and pose "an acute danger today and in the future." Numerous rapports of the SD and the Gestapo are dedicated to the attacks of Bandera, the confiscation of their newspapers and leaflets. In 1943, a German leaflet appeared in which they tried to convince Ukrainians that the OUN was acting in the interests of "bloodthirsty Stalin and his Jewish guardsmen."

Collaborationism on the territory of Ukraine, of course, existed, as it existed on the territory of Russia and Belarus. A huge number of people saw in Germany a force capable of rescuing the peoples from under the Stalinist yoke: hence the volunteer Russian (Cossack), Baltic and Asian formations of the Waffen SS, the mass Vlasov movement, the Ukrainian special-purpose battalions Roland and Nachtigall. Some of the collaborators collaborated with the Germans to the end, but many quickly became disillusioned or tried to conduct activities independent of the German command. The officers of "Nachtigall" and "Roland" in 1942 were arrested by the Germans themselves and kept in prisons, and the formations were disbanded. After the refusal of the German administration to recognize the independence of the Ukrainian State, the rank and file of the battalions did not renew their contracts. As for the SS division "Galicia", its soldiers opposed themselves to the UPA and the Bandera "forest gangs". Members of the OUN-B often called SS volunteers "traitors", threw their people into their ranks in order to lure them into their formations and boycotted the mobilization into this division.

"Stubborn Slav"
In 1944, Bandera was released from Sachsenhausen. Realizing the impending collapse, the German leadership was ready to resort to any anti-Soviet tools to contain the eastern front. However, cooperation did not work out, since the OUN leader again demanded that Berlin recognize the independence of Ukraine, but the Germans did not agree to this. On October 5, 1944, Bandera met with the head of the SS Main Directorate, Gottlob Berger. In a subsequent report, Berger characterized the leader of the OUN-B as follows: “Bandera is an uncomfortable, stubborn and fanatical Slav. He is devoted to his idea to the last. At this stage it is extremely valuable for us, after it it is dangerous. He hates the Russians just as much as the Germans."

After his release, Bandera lived in Germany. Contradictions have accumulated within the OUN-B, new factions have formed. Faithful to Bandera, who passed through the German dungeons "katsetniki" (from "KTs" - "concentration camp") demanded that the movement appoint him the head of both the Foreign Parts of the OUN and the OUN on the territory of Ukraine, and also return to the 1941 program of the year and continue the armed struggle from the USSR. "Kraeviki", members of the OUN, who acted directly on the Ukrainian lands, opposed these initiatives, believing them unrealistic.

On the whole, Bandera continued to fight: those who lived in exile, through the Western press, diasporas, in cooperation with the state structures of the United States and NATO countries, and those who lived on the territory of the USSR, with weapons in their hands, in the cities, towns and forests of their homeland. Roman Shukhevych was killed by Soviet Chekists in the vicinity of Lvov only in 1950, but his fighters did not submit. In 1944-1956, the Soviet secret services continued to destroy the Ukrainian armed underground, punishing civilians along with it, who willingly helped this underground. During this period, more than 103,000 "Ukrainian bourgeois nationalists and fascists" were arrested, of which about 90,000 were convicted, and 203,000 people were deported beyond the Urals and to the Asian republics of the Soviet Union.

Stepan Bandera himself was killed on October 15, 1959 in Munich by KGB agent Bogdan Stashinsky, who had been following the victim since January. The murder used was a syringe pistol hidden in a rolled-up newspaper - the intricate Novichok poison did not exist then, good old potassium cyanide was used.

Shortly before his death, in 1958, while speaking over the grave of one of the founders of the Ukrainian nationalist movement Yevgeny Konovalets, Stepan Bandera called the Third Reich and the USSR "two predatory totalitarian empires", with which the OUN fought tirelessly, fought, seeking respect for "sovereign rights Ukraine by other peoples and countries”, which alone can be a platform for peace and international cooperation.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Here's a start:

Myths about Bandera: how the Ukrainian fighter for independence became the scarecrow of Putin's propaganda
Bronislav Khmara
April 15, 2022

ÐиÑÑ Ð¾ ÐандеÑе: как ÑкÑаинÑкий боÑÐµÑ Ð·Ð° незавиÑимоÑÑÑ ÑÑал пÑгалом пÑÑинÑкой пÑопагандÑ

ÐолÑÑÑÑ ÑаÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð¹Ð½Ñ Ð¡Ñепан ÐандеÑа пÑоÑидел в немеÑком конÑлагеÑе, а на его поÑледоваÑелей оÑоÑилиÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑиÑÑÑкие ÑпеÑÑлÑжбÑ. Тем не менее именно ÐандеÑÑ ÑовеÑÑкаÑ, а вÑлед за ней и...

theins.ru

Barreness won't like this he hates facts that don't suit his pro Russian thinking.

 

[Mobbs]

While I'm here, I'll also comment on the pope's disingenious condemnation of what he miscalls the "ban" of what he miscalls a "church". It's a common media theme but none of the links are from sites I care to promote. So here is a link to the google search terms:

pope condemns church ban - Google Search

And here is why he doesn't know what the **** he is talking about:

 

[Zidane98]

barreness Russian propaganda about Ukranian Nazis has just been obliterated.

Now, let's talk about Rusich group, Wagner group, Dugin etc etc.

 

[Present Not Past]

Is the Russian city of Belgorod a potential target?

 

[barreness]

Wikipedia is a great site when there aren't disinformation gains to be made via the content. Tomorrow the same page could show Bandera to be a golden angel with feathery wings. Most of that article is at first glance true for associations Bandera had connections with, but not for him.

When the Volhynia massacres were carried out, Bandera was in a concentration camp. Poles are definitely pissed about it, but its got nothing to do with Stepan Bandera. Nazi Germany did release him thinking he'd be a handy tool due to his hatred for the soviet rule, but he had no intention of collaborating.

This is a conflation of Bandera with groups that at other times Bandera was associated with. The OUN, Galician groups, and even the term "Banderite" do not a Stepan Bandera make. All these latter terms though did indeed have instances of collusion with Nazi Germany.

This and the following article you posted are nice rewrites for him.

He created the OUN-B which was the radical element of Ukrainian nationalism, it's pretty hard to say he wasn't far right and clearly wanted an ethnically homogeneous Ukraine, was imprisoned in Poland for assassinations and terrorist attacks.

The concentration camp thing is a bit of a red herring, at various times he was allowed free reign of the city but just not allowed back into Ukraine. His wife was allowed to visit so this wasn't exactly a standard concentration camp internment. Bandera was pretty clearly a fascist, and his worship in Ukraine and even Canada is problematic.

You could say his motivations were primarily anti soviet rather than pro nazi, but if it quacks like a duck, intimate meetings with german intelligence in '39 and writing letters to Hitler do suggest something. The nazi's let him loose in '44 for a reason, to mess with the soviets after they realised they had lost WW2.

It is illegal to question his motivations in Ukraine atm so they do retcon a lot of these things
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t-symbols-criminalises-sympathy-for-communism
The second law recognises controversial nationalist groups – including the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) – as “independence fighters” and makes it a criminal offence to question the legitimacy of their actions.

5 years in prison for singing the Internationale or selling a soviet nick knack though, the inference is pretty clear

 

[barreness]

While I'm here, I'll also comment on the pope's disingenious condemnation of what he miscalls the "ban" of what he miscalls a "church". It's a common media theme but none of the links are from sites I care to promote. So here is a link to the google search terms:

pope condemns church ban - Google Search

And here is why he doesn't know what the **** he is talking about:

I mean they do like banning a lot of things; throw the Orthodox church of Ukraine(I know it's just one of the competing power structures within the church)-KGB priests is a little silly no? Ban the communist party and anyone left of centre, Ban a lot of Russian language broadcasts and cultural things, consolidate the bulk of media to broadcast propaganda.

I know many will say this is necessary in an existential invasion threat situation, not exactly freedom and democracy is it though

 

[barreness]

barreness Russian propaganda about Ukranian Nazis has just been obliterated.

Now, let's talk about Rusich group, Wagner group, Dugin etc etc.

Please do, Russia has a bunch of proto fascists in their ranks post soviet collapse

I'd suggest we all read more widely on the roots of Ukrainian nationalism and the politics around it. Mobbs has his view, which is fine. I don't think it's quite so clear cut as he's just a misunderstood freedom fighter

 

[wannabejack]

The challenges of life in Odesa.

Ukraine's Odesa Navigates Its Third Summer Of Full-Scale Invasion

With Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in its third year, Ukrainians are adjusting to life during wartime. And the Black Sea resort city of Odesa is no exception.

www.rferl.org

"It's hard, but if we give up, the war will return in five or 10 years to our children, like it did in Georgia and other countries. So we have to live and fight," Tetyana said.

Kotets, in turn, says it's impossible to agree with Russia.
"They don't stick to their agreements," he said. "I think we should give them a strong push and then agree on them leaving."

With the war now in its third year, Ukrainians have generally become accustomed to the sound of explosions, though reactions can vary.
"There were moments when a missile flew right over the sea," Svertilova said. "It felt surreal -- some people were ducking, while others stayed at their table with a glass of wine."

Both in 2014 and in 2022, Odesa proved that Russia's influence in the city, though significant, has been overestimated. In both cases, citizens demonstrated they saw no future within Russia.

"We've managed to endure through the third year," museum Director Kulai said, "so the fourth shouldn't be worse. It won't be easy, but we'll get through it."

 

[wannabejack]

Lockheed aims to churn out dozens of F-16 pilots per year at new training center

COO talks potential Ukraine support, European expansion.

www.defenseone.com

Lockheed Martin just graduated the first students from its F-16 training center in Romania, but the company is already looking to expand it and double its production of pilots as the U.S. and its allies struggle to meet demand for training

“As Ukraine and the U.S. government determine what the best approach is for training Ukrainian pilots, if they determine that doing that in the Romanian center is the right approach, then we'll follow their lead and do that,” he said.

Ukraine, which recently received its first F-16 jets, has been frustrated by the slow production of pilots to fly them. Some are being trained by the U.S. military, while others are being trained in Denmark, but Denmark plans to close its facility after this year, and the U.S. pipeline must also handle commitments to train other countries’ pilots as well.

Ukraine’s F-16s could be serviced at Lockheed’s maintenance hub in Poland, which was built so the hundreds of F-16s operating in Europe don’t have to come back to the U.S. to get major maintenance work and upgrades, St. John said.

“Our intention for that facility is that it'll be a regional facility, and so Ukraine is certainly in the region....

While Lockheed expands its infrastructure in Europe, some U.S. defense companies have been in talks with Ukraine about joint production. Northrop Grumman recently announced it will make ammunition inside Ukraine, ...

“As Ukraine begins to expand its build out of its own industrial base for defense, and as their requirements evolve, long term, we would look to apply a similar model there, as we've applied in places like Poland,” St. John said.