Traded Bailey Smith: 4-way trade: B. Smith (WB) & pick 45 to Geel / pick 38 to Carl / Macrae (WB) to StK / pick 17 & Kennedy (Carl) to WB

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BF Tiger said:
Maybe to hurry this trade along it needs a third-party to come out and say "Hey Bulldogs, we'll give you pick 10 and xxx for Smith".
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The issue is that the player has ultimate control over where he ends up. Players have to agree to any trade.

The rules should definitely be changed to change the power dynamics. If a player accepts a contract at club A, club B should be able to match that contract and be an option for the trading club. Maybe include some parameters that it has to be in the same state as to not upset the precious players too much.

If a player wants to go to the open market and accept a contract, they should be willing to play anywhere for that amount otherwise you stay at your original club.
 

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Footy Smarts said:
The highest Bailey Smth has finished in a B&F is 7th. Holmes just won our B&F by miles and was easily BOG in both finals until he was injured in the prelim. He's done more than Smith in his career.

But if he had a shit year in 2025, then did his ACL in 2026, was coming out of contract and said he wanted out we would probably get offered a single first rounder plus maybe a bit more. We'd stomp our feet, get annoyed and then accept the deal at the deadline because it's the best we're going to get.

I'd want more. Much more. But realistically I know we'd have no bargaining position
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Smith has 29 Brownlow votes. Holmes has 13. So smith for Holmes and your 1st?

Joking obviously but stats can be used multiple ways to make an argument.
 
theiaofseed said:
Can Geelong afford to let Smith fall through their grip? 8 players from their last game will be 30+ next year. They need talent now if they want to continue winning.

Pick 17* + F1 for Smith+ F2/3 is still unders for a player of Smiths quality.
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The best 23 that roll out will be younger than the 2022 premiership side and I don't think you're proposed trade is overs considering his whole body of work rather than just his peak output
 
Golden_6 said:
The issue is that the player has ultimate control over where he ends up. Players have to agree to any trade.

The rules should definitely be changed to change the power dynamics. If a player accepts a contract at club A, club B should be able to match that contract and be an option for the trading club. Maybe include some parameters that it has to be in the same state as to not upset the precious players too much.

If a player wants to go to the open market and accept a contract, they should be willing to play anywhere for that amount otherwise you stay at your original club.
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This is correct. People saying "what would the cats expect if it was Holmes wanting out?" And the answer to that is "shafted".

I don't know how you take player power away though. You'd to give them a big incentive. Like give clubs a big boost to cap but tie that to contracts over $Xpa being able to be force traded
 
My opinion is that a fair deal would be the F1 & current 2nd for Smith outright. Ultimately I think we'll bend a little and accept the current '1st' and a F2 with later pick swaps heading our way.

Ultimately the club would like a package similar to Dunkley which would land at the current 1st + F1 + F2 but Dunkley was the best and fairest winner that season.
 
nohairandfair said:
Once a player cops an ACL injury, their market value is diminished. Can’t see the Cats offering much more than a first round for Bailey.
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Why are you offering him a million dollar contract then?

Geelong wants to leverage the trade/lack of free agency/redrafting rules as they are to offer an out-of-contract player a contract.

There's no use doing the two-step in pretending he's not worth what he is. There's no fooling anyone. Everyone understands you're making him about your fourth highest paid player.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
This is correct. People saying "what would the cats expect if it was Holmes wanting out?" And the answer to that is "shafted".

I don't know how you take player power away though. You'd to give them a big incentive. Like give clubs a big boost to cap but tie that to contracts over $Xpa being able to be force traded
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If Geelong fans can agree to this, then the follow-up question is, what are we doing here?

Compare with the Battle situation.

Both the Bulldogs and St Kilda successfully identified a talent in the draft, and following their draftee contract, had to pay them in the salary cap.

  • Battle gave eight years of service to his club, Smith six
  • St Kilda are getting either a Band 1 compensation, tied to ladder position to help accelerate equalsation
  • Smith only gave six years of service to the Dogs
  • Somehow, the Dogs will get less in a trade haul than if they had simply "rescinded" a lack of free agency rights and gotten band 1 compensation
  • The whole point of free agency only existing after eight years and not six, is to force players to give at least eight years of service to the team that drafted them before they have easier player movement, to make the identification of talent more meaningful. Smith and his management are basically barrelling through that right now.

Dogs fans aren't necessarily upset that Smith is an out-of-contract player that wants to leave, we're more upset that for the draft to have any meaning and for there to be any either on-field reward for correctly identifying and developing talent, the system has to be somewhat different.

This is more critical to us than it is to other clubs as a small, less desirable club, the draft is critical for us to be a competitive team - we have fewer kids supporting us as teenagers, Western Jets produces less talent, we play in front of smaller crowds etc.

Compare with other leagues that fundamentally gives preference to the team that drafted players over other teams in the league:
  • MLB forces six years of service, there's no real concept of being out of contract until you're six years in the league
  • NBA allows teams that drafted a player to give more generous contract terms, go over the salary cap to retain the player, and the concept of restricted free agency isn't just to "force a trade" but to ensure that that player keeps playing with them
  • NFL teams can delay a player getting a long term contract at other clubs by "franchise tagging them".
Funnily enough, the team that gets screwed over the most is GWS, who have lost a conveyer belt of talent wanting to leave for lesser return than their investment before the 8-year free agency (ranging from Bruhn, to Hately etc.), but nobody really compains becasue they don't have the fanbase to, and people dislike them, and people perceive that it's "spillage" of talent of their entry concessions, even though that was long ago and those concessions got reigned in ahead of scheudule early. But it's probably fair to say that GWS have been screwed over, to an extent, for how successful they have at been identifying talent through the draft and developing those players through their earliest years, and if free agency/compensation rules for them had been different, they'd have been a much more successful club over the last 5-8 years.
 
Smith has potential and that's all, he hasn't finished in the Bulldogs top 10 B&F in 2022 ad 23, this year he's been out with an ACL, the Dogs should count themselves lucky to get pick 17. All this chest beating stuff is nonsense, he wants to go and is out of contract, all this talk of going to the pre season draft is nuts! There is an old saying by Peter Grant the former manager of Led Zeppelin who once told American promoters "do you want 10% of something or all of nothing"? The Dogs don't want nothing for a player who longer wants to be there. A deal will be struck whether the Dogs like it or not.
 

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Ugene41 said:
Because the Pies get shafted.

We might as well just give GC Noble and our F1 for Pick 13 and 29. No need to involve Cats/Dogs.
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You don't get shaftes at all but it doesn't make sense for the Pies to do it.
 
Can see no deal been done so he either stays or goes to the PSD which means open season on him plus North have plenty of $$$$ to play with but knowing Rawlings he be 💩 his pants in fear if
1:We pick him and Smith decides no I’m not playing with your club
2:The Ridicule from other clubs and supporters if we select.
My attitude is if his available for nothing take him it won’t cost us draft picks.
 
Mr north man said:
Can see no deal been done so he either stays or goes to the PSD which means open season on him plus North have plenty of $$$$ to play with but knowing Rawlings he be 💩 his pants in fear if
1:We pick him and Smith decides no I’m not playing with your club
2:The Ridicule from other clubs and supporters if we select.
My attitude is if his available for nothing take him it won’t cost us draft picks.
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ND not PSD. Geesus that should be stickied to the top of the thread.
 
Sam Power seemed to insinuate that they're going to ask for something similar to what Smith cost when they drafted him (pick 7)
 
Wojcinski said:
Sam Power seemed to insinuate that they're going to ask for something similar to what Smith cost when they drafted him (pick 7)
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Shoot for the stars right? I don’t think he expects we’ll get pick 7 but Mackey and Power both know that pick 20 is only about half of his worth.
 
Mr north man said:
Can see no deal been done so he either stays or goes to the PSD which means open season on him plus North have plenty of $$$$ to play with but knowing Rawlings he be 💩 his pants in fear if
1:We pick him and Smith decides no I’m not playing with your club
2:The Ridicule from other clubs and supporters if we select.
My attitude is if his available for nothing take him it won’t cost us draft picks.
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God bless North fans.
 
Pure_Ownage said:
ND not PSD. Geesus that should be stickied to the top of the thread.
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As far as I've read, he can nominate for the ND, or say he wants to be held over to the PSD. If he nominates for the national draft, he has to set out the $ he wants (so whatever it is Geelong is offering) and he's bound to that club for 2 years.

If he's taking unders to go to Geelong, then obviously that means a higher chance someone else will take him. If he puts in a higher $, and Geelong takes him, he can't then sign for a lower amount once he gets to Geelong.
 
Wojcinski said:
Sam Power seemed to insinuate that they're going to ask for something similar to what Smith cost when they drafted him (pick 7)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure we asked for a top 10 with Clark and ended up settling for 22 and an F3.
 

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Traded Bailey Smith: 4-way trade: B. Smith (WB) & pick 45 to Geel / pick 38 to Carl / Macrae (WB) to StK / pick 17 & Kennedy (Carl) to WB

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