Autopsy Best and worst vs Sydney round 5, changes for Melbourne Anzac Day eve

[Noidnadroj]

Well, look at the contrast. Terry Wallace was given four-and-a-half years (no Dustin Martin). Damien Hardwick was given seven years (with Dustin Martin). Hardwick is/was the luckiest bloke God's put on this earth.

I assume trolling or some for of burner account, but I’ll bite.

4.5 years in under Wallace and the Tigers were going backwards. Dimma took over a rabble of a list - without access to a lot of talent due to GWS and GC - and after being 0-9 we improved every year before making finals in 2013-14-15. For various reasons we didn’t cut the mustard in finals, then regressed badly in 2016, when most media pundits said we needed a rebuild. And trading #6 for Prestia was a bad error … remember?

Then we dominated for 4 x seasons and won 3 flags. With what many even now say wasn’t a truly great playing list.

With 18 x teams, across 13 x seasons the odds are we should have won about 0.65 of a flag … we’ve won 3!

Regardless of what happens from here Dimma
needs a statue at Punt Road.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[one eyedtiger]

Maybe I am just more optimistic than most, but I honestly don't think we are too far off it. Friday night was absolutely frustrating, but a lot of our wounds are self-inflicted which can be corrected. Poor decisions costing us goals both ways, Balta handing a goal to Heeney, Bolton playing on close to 3qtr time (I think or was it HT?) and turning it over, bang goal the other way rather than us having a shot. Dusty not making the distance from the snap, another goal we left on the table. Really, despite these errors we were in this game up to our eyeballs with 7 mins remaining in the last.

I'm bullish that these poor decisions are something we can fix and for the most part is in our control. Add Ryan's dropped marks at either end and that's a few more goals. We also played more than 1 good quarter, we were only able to put it on the scoreboard for one quarter. 2nd quarter we were the better side, but kicked poorly and weren't able to cut into their lead.

Clearly we need to improve on a few areas, poor decisions and bad skills are part of the game so while unlucky in some instances some players need to be calmer and smarter with ball in hand. Balta and Bolton have played enough footy to not make their mistakes. They would be aware of it and be disappointed but I back them in to tidy that area up. I'm not going to criticise Ryan a 5th gamer for dropping marks, simply noting that marks that he probably sticks another day cost us a few goals.

Coaching staff are still clearly working out our best combo at center bounce. It may seem simplistic but IMO only 2 of Prestia, Hopper, Tarranto in at CB at a time, with one of Sonsie/Bolton/Short (not sure if he's been in at CB this year in his 2 games). Prestia, Hopper and TT are all see ball get ball types, it leaves nothing on the outside if we do lose first possession, opposition is just flicking it out to a free players who gets a clean clearance.

I think big picture wise we are okay, the list is too talented to keep losing games. We have played good teams and really could have pinched another win or 2. The bad news is, it may get worse before it gets better with the Dees on the horizon. We have not matched-up well with them over the last few years and it's a bit of a perfect storm with our first choice rucks out. Let's see how we go, I personally won't be hitting the panic button unless we drop one of the Eagles/Suns games.

 

[LTT]

And for your post in the Game Day thread quoted above, sanaya ... Didn't have time to GIF it and thought I'd help you out and did it now instead.

Parker is holding on to Cotchin completely from before the ball is thrown up to after the ball exits the area stage-left.

The AFL added an extra umpire this year to pay the free kicks off the ball, but the free kick numbers seem to be down. How does that make sense

 

[LTT]

Are you suggesting someone down back?

with Bauer ,,it’s the usual thing that a player needs to focus on his defensive skill set
reckon he might be considered next week…is a solid build but not tall enough for a 2nd ruck option so someone other than a miller needs to come out

Maybe they plan to rest Grimmes

 

[All Aust]

Well, look at the contrast. Terry Wallace was given four-and-a-half years (no Dustin Martin). Damien Hardwick was given seven years (with Dustin Martin). Hardwick is/was the luckiest bloke God's put on this earth.

This sunbed campaigner made sure we went to the draft and selected another Wallace clone at every point.

Had a different football plan every third week, originally sold himself on a turnaround with a 5 yr plan, then, 4 years in started with all smarm and charm of a charlatan, spruiking another 5yr recruitment plan.

Drafts aside, it was changes at the drop of a hat, no stability, no result. Wallace was all "my way" about it. The highway was the best option.

Well into Hardwicks tenure, instability was still a thing but the Penny had dropped for the RFC board and GM. Dimma was counselled and supported in the turnaround.... comfortable stable environment, results, destination club.

2023 is looking like a tough year, but revolutionary actions will only yield panic and subsequent anarchy. The club will evolve new game plans and (playing, coaching and footy dept.) personnel in a manner that assures trust and stability.

 

[aislegi]

Damien Hardwick took over with a weak list at a club that had won 2 finals in 28 years. 301 games later Richmond has lost just 42% of the matches he has coached. The average an AFL team loses is around 49%. We have won 10 finals in 13 seasons, the average an AFL club wins over 13 seasons is 6.5 finals. Your post infers that all of those wins coming within a 4 year period is somehow bad, as if it would have been better to spread them out evenly over the 13 seasons....

I think the rest of us will gleefully accept the Premierships and gracefully accept the lack of a finals victory in the 9 seasons where we didn't win a final. You might prefer to support Eagles who spread their 9 finals wins out more evenly across 6 seasons. Or Collingwood who expertly spread their 11 finals wins out across 7 seasons. Or the Geelong Cats Football Club who spread their 14 finals wins over 9 seasons. Or Fremantle FC who adroitly spread their meagre 6 finals wins over 5 seasons to ensure those seasons were not wasted. Or Sydney Swans FC who made sure 8 seasons were not wasted by spreading their 13 finals wins across them.

Those much less wasteful clubs averaged 1 Premiership each in that 13 year period, where we wasted our way to averaging 3 flags across our 13 years.



Anyway, how many Brownlows, Norm Smiths, Grand Final sprints, Norm Goss Medals, VFL flags, VWFL flags, and Coleman Medals, have those campaigner clubs won during Hardwick's tenure aislegi?

You seem to be having a bit eachway with these comments by introducing some not so recent statistics. Over the period you‘re talking about, some 40 years, if we had been average, we‘d have won 20 finals. So, with just 12 finals wins, we’re still nowhere near average. In Hawthorn’s golden era (1982-1991), for instance, they won 19 finals at a time when the average team in the league would have won about five. That is, they won nearly four times as many finals as the average team. Even in Hardwick’s best 10 years, we haven’t won anything like four times as many finals as the average team.

 

[domin8]

You seem to be having a bit eachway with these comments by introducing some not so recent statistics. Over the period you‘re talking about, some 40 years, if we had been average, we‘d have won 20 finals. So, with just 12 finals wins, we’re still nowhere near average. In Hawthorn’s golden era (1982-1991), for instance, they won 19 finals at a time when the average team in the league would have won about five. That is, they won nearly four times as many finals as the average team. Even in Hardwick’s best 10 years, we haven’t won anything like four times as many finals as the average team.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

Hardwick is no good?
Hardwick is over rated?
Hardwick took too long to win flags?

I don’t quite get where you’re going with this

 

[aislegi]

I assume trolling or some for of burner account, but I’ll bite.

4.5 years in under Wallace and the Tigers were going backwards. Dimma took over a rabble of a list - without access to a lot of talent due to GWS and GC - and after being 0-9 we improved every year before making finals in 2013-14-15. For various reasons we didn’t cut the mustard in finals, then regressed badly in 2016, when most media pundits said we needed a rebuild. And trading #6 for Prestia was a bad error … remember?

Then we dominated for 4 x seasons and won 3 flags. With what many even now say wasn’t a truly great playing list.

With 18 x teams, across 13 x seasons the odds are we should have won about 0.65 of a flag … we’ve won 3!

Regardless of what happens from here Dimma
needs a statue at Punt Road.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Strongly disagree that the Tigers were going backwards under Terry Wallace. In fact, I‘d argue that he had a hand in putting together the core of the side that would eventually win some silverware. The Tigers were eight games out of the eight in 2004 (pre-Wallace). In his last full season (2008), we missed the eight by half-a-game! Moreover, it took Hardwick until 2013 to improve on 2008. And the ‘improvement’ was underwhelming in that we lost in the first week to a team that was only in the finals because Essendon got disqualified and it was another four, long years before Hardwick would lead us to finals win.

 

[aislegi]

So what exactly are you trying to say?

Hardwick is no good?
Hardwick is over rated?
Hardwick took too long to win flags?

I don’t quite get where you’re going with this

In answer to your questions:

1. No. I think he’s a likeable sort of fellow, was a good player, and (with the right help) can get results.

2. Definitely. I think any number of coaches, if given seven years and Dustin Martin, would have had success.

3. Yes. Martin was a great player at least as early as 2013 and 2014-2016 were wasted years.

 

[mauricerioli]

Strongly disagree that the Tigers were going backwards under Terry Wallace. In fact, I‘d argue that he had a hand in putting together the core of the side that would eventually win some silverware. The Tigers were eight games out of the eight in 2004 (pre-Wallace). In his last full season (2008), we missed the eight by half-a-game! Moreover, it took Hardwick until 2013 to improve on 2008. And the ‘improvement’ was underwhelming in that we lost in the first week to a team that was only in the finals because Essendon got disqualified and it was another four, long years before Hardwick would lead us to finals win.

Of course he had a hand in putting our Premiership team together.

He got us Cotchin, Dusty and Rance by guiding us to bottom of the ladder in 2007 and handing over the team after Round 11 2009 who were second bottom.

 

[domin8]

In answer to your questions:

1. No. I think he’s a likeable sort of fellow, was a good player, and (with the right help) can get results.

2. Definitely. I think any number of coaches, if given seven years and Dustin Martin, would have had success.

3. Yes. Martin was a great player at least as early as 2013 and 2014-2016 were wasted years.

Ok then. Just checking.
My synopsis is you have No ****ing Idea

 

[Tiger Toffee]

A richmond fan who actually preferred Wallace over Hardwick hahahahahahahahahaha FMD

 

[domin8]

A richmond fan who actually preferred Wallace over Hardwick hahahahahahahahahaha FMD

Yeah I know. Surely a troll

 

[smasha]

Is this game ticketed?

 

[AstuteTiger]

Strongly disagree that the Tigers were going backwards under Terry Wallace. In fact, I‘d argue that he had a hand in putting together the core of the side that would eventually win some silverware. The Tigers were eight games out of the eight in 2004 (pre-Wallace). In his last full season (2008), we missed the eight by half-a-game! Moreover, it took Hardwick until 2013 to improve on 2008. And the ‘improvement’ was underwhelming in that we lost in the first week to a team that was only in the finals because Essendon got disqualified and it was another four, long years before Hardwick would lead us to finals win.

In Wallace's 5th year, we were equal 2nd last with 3 wins from the first 11 games.
Wallace has coached Richmond in 98 games since 2005, for 37 wins, 60 losses and two draws.
The club's best finish in his reign was ninth in 2006 and 2008.

Wallace had 5 years to build the list and in the end, we were going backwards not forward, enough was enough, and the club made the right decision.
Under Dimma we have won 3 flags. We have all been living our best lives witnessing triumph after triumph

For 2023, There are still 18 games to go, so ill reserve my judgment for now. Here are our next 8 games> Dees, Suns, Eagles, Cats, Ess, Port, Gws, and Freo

 

[bluehouse]

In Wallace's 5th year, we were equal 2nd last with 3 wins from the first 11 games.
Wallace has coached Richmond in 98 games since 2005, for 37 wins, 60 losses and two draws.
The club's best finish in his reign was ninth in 2006 and 2008.

Wallace had 5 years to build the list and in the end, we were going backwards not forward, enough was enough, and the club made the right decision.
Under Dimma we have won 3 flags. We have all been living our best lives witnessing triumph after triumph

For 2023, There are still 18 games to go, so ill reserve my judgment for now. Here are our next 8 games> Dees, Suns, Eagles, Cats, Ess, Port, Gws, and Freo

One of those seasons 2013-15 we broke the AFL record winning streak to make the finals - 13 in a row. We were near the bottom after 9 rounds.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Spluff]

In his last full season (2008), we missed the eight by half-a-game!

Thanks Terry. Remind me - Dimma didn't start until 2010. What happened in 2009?

 

[Ctl]

One of the main reasons Wallace was sacked was that the players had enough, it wasn't so much the club were pushing him out.

In regards to this season we can still make the finals but its a slim margin to hit the 14 win mark, the underlined games are real make or break against other potential top 8 sides, where we'd need to win a couple more than I've generously predicted

Round	Game	Venue	Result	Record
6	Richmond vs Melbourne	MCG	Loss	1-1-4
7	Richmond vs Gold Coast	Marvel	Win	2-1-4
8	Richmond vs West Coast	MCG	Win	3-1-4
9	Richmond vs Geelong	MCG	Loss	3-1-5
10	Richmond vs Essendon	MCG	Win	4-1-5
11	Richmond Vs Port Adelaide	MCG	Win	5-1-5
12	Richmond vs GWS	Sydney Olympic	Win	6-1-5
13	Richmond vs Freo	Optus	Win	7-1-5
14	Richmond vs St Kilda	MCG	Loss	7-1-6
15	Bye
16	Richmond vs Brisbane	Gabba	Loss	7-1-7
17	Richmond vs Sydney	MCG	Loss	7-1-8
18	Richmond vs West Cooast	Optus	Win	8-1-8
19	Richmond vs Hawthorn	MCG	Win	9-1-8
20	Richmond vs Melbourne	MCG	Loss	9-1-9
21	Richmond vs Bulldogs	Marvel	Win	10-1-9
22	Richmond vs St Kilda	Marvel	Win	11-1-9
23	Richmond vs North Melbourne	MCG	Win	12-1-9
24	Richmond vs Port Adelaide	Adelaide	Win	13-1-9

 

[domin8]

One of the main reasons Wallace was sacked was that the players had enough, it wasn't so much the club were pushing him out.

In regards to this season we can still make the finals but its a slim margin to hit the 14 win mark, the underlined games are real make or break against other potential top 8 sides, where we'd need to win a couple more than I've generously predicted

Round	Game	Venue	Result	Record
6	Richmond vs Melbourne	MCG	Loss	1-1-4
7	Richmond vs Gold Coast	Marvel	Win	2-1-4
8	Richmond vs West Coast	MCG	Win	3-1-4
9	Richmond vs Geelong	MCG	Loss	3-1-5
10	Richmond vs Essendon	MCG	Win	4-1-5
11	Richmond Vs Port Adelaide	MCG	Win	5-1-5
12	Richmond vs GWS	Sydney Olympic	Win	6-1-5
13	Richmond vs Freo	Optus	Win	7-1-6
14	Richmond vs St Kilda	MCG	Loss	7-1-7
15	Bye
16	Richmond vs Brisbane	Gabba	Loss	7-1-8
17	Richmond vs Sydney	MCG	Loss	7-1-9
18	Richmond vs West Cooast	Optus	Win	8-1-9
19	Richmond vs Hawthorn	MCG	Win	9-1-9
20	Richmond vs Melbourne	MCG	Loss	9-1-10
21	Richmond vs Bulldogs	Marvel	Win	10-1-10
22	Richmond vs St Kilda	Marvel	Win	11-1-10
23	Richmond vs North Melbourne	MCG	Win	12-1-10
24	Richmond vs Port Adelaide	Adelaide	Win	13-1-10

Pretty close. We’ll beat Sydney at the MCG. The second Melbourne game will be interesting as if our form is as you say we can beat them 2nd time we play them l. I also think we’ll beat St kilda at the MCG. They’re riding a wave that will crash at some stage

 

[tigerfan1961]

Strongly disagree that the Tigers were going backwards under Terry Wallace. In fact, I‘d argue that he had a hand in putting together the core of the side that would eventually win some silverware. The Tigers were eight games out of the eight in 2004 (pre-Wallace). In his last full season (2008), we missed the eight by half-a-game! Moreover, it took Hardwick until 2013 to improve on 2008. And the ‘improvement’ was underwhelming in that we lost in the first week to a team that was only in the finals because Essendon got disqualified and it was another four, long years before Hardwick would lead us to finals win.

Give it a rest, Hardwick inherited a train wreck of a list, with so many veterans that had to be retired. He also built the side through restricted drafts after the decision to introduce the Suns and Giants. And yes, they had Cotchin, Rance, Martin and Riewoldt but not much else.
Hardwick, Hartley, Matt Clarke and the hierarchy of the club deserve statues for what they achieved in that ten year period from 2010.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Gees Harry Himmelberg is some player…turned it on…big time player

imagine him playing in front of packed crowds….with the RFC

 

[Rubber Hips]

Maybe they plan to rest Grimmes

Not sure…they ain’t like for like but you never know MC thinking

 

[Tiges1229]

A richmond fan who actually preferred Wallace over Hardwick hahahahahahahahahaha FMD

I don’t know why people even bother with the flog he’s just an oppo troll

 

[Rubber Hips]

Is this game RIGGED?

EfA…yes

 

[banzai]

Maybe I am just more optimistic than most, but I honestly don't think we are too far off it. Friday night was absolutely frustrating, but a lot of our wounds are self-inflicted which can be corrected. Poor decisions costing us goals both ways, Balta handing a goal to Heeney, Bolton playing on close to 3qtr time (I think or was it HT?) and turning it over, bang goal the other way rather than us having a shot. Dusty not making the distance from the snap, another goal we left on the table. Really, despite these errors we were in this game up to our eyeballs with 7 mins remaining in the last.

I'm bullish that these poor decisions are something we can fix and for the most part is in our control. Add Ryan's dropped marks at either end and that's a few more goals. We also played more than 1 good quarter, we were only able to put it on the scoreboard for one quarter. 2nd quarter we were the better side, but kicked poorly and weren't able to cut into their lead.

Clearly we need to improve on a few areas, poor decisions and bad skills are part of the game so while unlucky in some instances some players need to be calmer and smarter with ball in hand. Balta and Bolton have played enough footy to not make their mistakes. They would be aware of it and be disappointed but I back them in to tidy that area up. I'm not going to criticise Ryan a 5th gamer for dropping marks, simply noting that marks that he probably sticks another day cost us a few goals.

Coaching staff are still clearly working out our best combo at center bounce. It may seem simplistic but IMO only 2 of Prestia, Hopper, Tarranto in at CB at a time, with one of Sonsie/Bolton/Short (not sure if he's been in at CB this year in his 2 games). Prestia, Hopper and TT are all see ball get ball types, it leaves nothing on the outside if we do lose first possession, opposition is just flicking it out to a free players who gets a clean clearance.

I think big picture wise we are okay, the list is too talented to keep losing games. We have played good teams and really could have pinched another win or 2. The bad news is, it may get worse before it gets better with the Dees on the horizon. We have not matched-up well with them over the last few years and it's a bit of a perfect storm with our first choice rucks out. Let's see how we go, I personally won't be hitting the panic button unless we drop one of the Eagles/Suns games.

Sydney had a lot of talls out though, gonna be very hard when we go up against good rucks. Witts will soon be back for GC. Big issue was when we had slow ball coming out of defence, we just had no presence down the line with no Nank or Lynch. Nearly every time Sydney won the ball back.