Autopsy Best and worst vs Sydney round 5, changes for Melbourne Anzac Day eve

[tony__montana]

Well if the Ben King rumour comes to fruition, Samson Ryan comes good and Cumberland looking a player, down back for Bauer is not so ridiculous

yep, not to mention playing back is his natural position, only recently moved forward after kicking a bag in a half when thrown forward in the SANFL last year

 

[beema limapep]

B: Baker, Balta, Grimes
HB: Vlastuin, Miller, Rioli
C: Banks, Sonsie, Pickett
HF: Bolton, Reiwoldt, Clarke
F: Cumberland, Bauer, Rioli
FOLL: Ryan, Taranto, Hopper

I/C: Prestia, Ross, Short, Martin, Sub Dow

Ins:- Bauer, Short, Dow, Banks, Ross
Outs - Cotchin, Ralphsmith, Young, Mansell, McIntosh (managed).
New:- Bauer, Banks.

 

[LTT]

Has anyone any further info on this premature ejaculation whistle thing? Was it on field or from the crowd. Two things at once throws Noah but totally understand his reaction here.

There was a whistle
Noah pulls up from seriously playing (he doesn't want to give up 50)
Crickets the umpire (surely there is an on field announcement for why followed by "advantage!!!")
C7 have got the BT call then crickets then an ad, then crickets
Noah left holding the can.

Lack of explanation seemed a bit gutless and a bit cowardly for mind.

Occurred at a critical point in the match, and swung momentum back to the opppo. It deserves some more attention.

I’m wouldn’t be surprised that the C7 contract has something in it that stops them from criticising the umpires. BT questioned the whistle in the commentary but as you say didn’t mention it again in the replay. To me that probably means that it was another umpire stuff up

 

[LTT]

100% I like this, I still can't understand why no pressure was put on Papley last night.
It ******* madness you curb his influence and we could have won the game.

Agree, we new we would lose the ruck but still we didn’t tag. Worst still we let him run forward unmarked

 

[Noidnadroj]

Well if the Ben King rumour comes to fruition, Samson Ryan comes good and Cumberland looking a player, down back for Bauer is not so ridiculous

Have you seen Ben King play lately? I know he’s returning from a knee but I’m not sure I want him with what it would take to secure his services. Could easily end up another Hogan, McCarthy, Boyd …. if he doesn’t show loads more the remainder of this season it’s buyer beware on B King for me.


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[IceT]

Hate this feeling, when it dawns on you that we aren’t competing with the big guns this year.

Remember following the 2016 season, similar feelings after making the finals 3 years in a row to not make the finals and get smashed by 100+ points in the final round. All the hope that we were on the right track disappeared, and we rightfully blamed Hardwick.

He famously radically changed his approach, we got 3 good players and McRae, Caracella and Balme to bolster Hardwick off field. The rest is history.

2023 needs to be a repeat of 2016 off field. Writing players like Grimes and JR off is ridiculous. We still have the nucleus for a flag. Only problem is our list managers and football dept have been caught lairising with their recruitment of players and coaching/fitness staff. And our on field game plan is resembling our pre 2017 game plan.

If the list managers and football dept can get back to their 2016 mindset, we can turn this around as per 2017.

 

[DickieKnee]

He famously radically changed his approach

Wasn't that after the full external review of the club? Dimma went to the USA. From memory the players complained his game plan was too complicated, when Dimma returned from the US he adapted a game plan that suited the list. Maybe he should go back to that plan.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Now the dust has settled on the weekends game a bit of perspective is needed. Swans had 11 players under 50-games and we had 9. They were younger and less experienced.

However …. we had 9 players with under 25-games and they had just 4. This is very relevant as nearly all players take 25+ games to find their feet and get comfortable at the level. It means they’ve had at least 2 x seasons of regular or semi-regular senior footy. And anyone with 25+ has proven to be of AFL quality - under 25 and the jury is still out.

And I think any talk of dropping Hugo is premature. He’s making mistakes, but he’s at least getting ball and providing some run. He’s athletically what the team desperately needs moving forward, and he can play multiple positions. So why give up on him now? Same goes for all the other youngsters.
Losing with young guys at least provides benefit in the future by giving them experience.

Assuming none of the injured players are back, changes for this week:

In: Ross
Out: MRJ
Sub = Cotchin


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[tiger_tough]

Setterfield did a number on Oliver in the first half....but we know Dimma doesn't tag.

 

[RockJobster0312]

This is being overlooked way too much for mine. In the last 2 games Ryan's ruckwork has been elite. Miller was putrid.
Ryan 1st ruck
Miller 2nd ruck
Bauer forward

Think Young progression as a clear FB has impacted Miller. Expect the preference pre-season would be Miller being a second ruck and taking the oppositions second ruck when they go forward (which is the majority of teams second rucks). In effect, being the second ruck and second KPD.

Can’t do that now as with Young and Balta clamping down the two key backs Miller would make the backline too tall.

The clear need to get games into Ryan as the preferred CHF (until the Nankervis injury) also has meant that Miller has no key role (injuries permitting).

Expect we will see Miller and Ryan for a few more weeks until Soldo is back.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Setterfield did a number on Oliver in the first half....but we know Dimma doesn't tag.

But then Essendon realized that their pressure in the stoppage was elite and their backline dominant over Melbourne that their system could win out.

One of the least impactful games I’ve seen from both Oliver and Petracca for sometime.

Concern for me is that our pressure in the stoppage hasn’t been overly great - at the very least overly consistent - all year.

 

[aislegi]

Remember following the 2016 season, similar feelings after making the finals 3 years in a row to not make the finals and get smashed by 100+ points in the final round. All the hope that we were on the right track disappeared, and we rightfully blamed Hardwick.

He famously radically changed his approach, we got 3 good players and McRae, Caracella and Balme to bolster Hardwick off field. The rest is history.

Unfortunately, it wasn't just 2016 that was bad. We didn't make finals from 2010-2012. We embarrassed overselves in finals from 2013-2015. The bottom fell out in 2016, and it was a total of seven wasted seasons - all with talent like Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, and Rance on the list. The surprise wasn't so much that we eventually played some good football, from 2017-2020, but that it took so long to get any silverware with such talented players. And now to see us slide into another patch of wasted years, from 2021-2023. Yet there's so little talk of doing anything differently - or that Hardwick should take responsibility for the bad years, as much as the good years. I mean, it's good that we won 10 finals in four short years, but they're also the only finals wins we've had in the 13 seasons that he's been in charge.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Oliver had

Setterfield did a number on Oliver in the first half....but we know Dimma doesn't tag.

Oliver had 41 touches, 70% DE…surely not most in the 2nd half?

 

[tiger_tough]

Oliver had

41 touches, 70% DE…surely not most in the 2nd half?

30 of them in the 2nd half, 20 in the last quarter when the game was over.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Have you seen Ben King play lately? I know he’s returning from a knee but I’m not sure I want him with what it would take to secure his services. Could easily end up another Hogan, McCarthy, Boyd …. if he doesn’t show loads more the remainder of this season it’s buyer beware on B King for me.


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Regardless of that, theres no way known that we will be able to facilitate a trade for him. And I’m not sure he’d be worth what the Suns will ask for him.

 

[aislegi]

And I think any talk of dropping Hugo is premature. He’s making mistakes, but he’s at least getting ball and providing some run. He’s athletically what the team desperately needs moving forward, and he can play multiple positions. So why give up on him now? Same goes for all the other youngsters.
Losing with young guys at least provides benefit in the future by giving them experience.

Assuming none of the injured players are back, changes for this week:

In: Ross
Out: MRJ
Sub = Cotchin

I'd definitely keep Ralphsmith in the side and agree with what you've said above. Just needs to be a bit cleaner, which might come with more experience at this level. The one I'm struggling to see making it is Maurice Rioli, Jnr.

 

[Serenity_Now]

Unfortunately, it wasn't just 2016 that was bad. We didn't make finals from 2010-2012. We embarrassed overselves in finals from 2013-2015. The bottom fell out in 2016, and it was a total of seven wasted seasons - all with talent like Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, and Rance on the list. The surprise wasn't so much that we eventually played some good football, from 2017-2020, but that it took so long to get any silverware with such talented players. And now to see us slide into another patch of wasted years, from 2021-2023. Yet there's so little talk of doing anything differently - or that Hardwick should take responsibility for the bad years, as much as the good years. I mean, it's good that we won 10 finals in four short years, but they're also the only finals wins we've had in the 13 seasons that he's been in charge.

This has got to be biggest load of nonsense I have read, 7 wasted seasons? Dimma took over in 2010 and the list was for the tip, you think we should have been contending with blokes like Collins, Howlet, Webberly and Nason running around?

 

[aislegi]

This has got to be biggest load of nonsense I have read, 7 wasted seasons? Dimma took over in 2010 and the list was for the tip, you think we should have been contending with blokes like Collins, Howlet, Webberly and Nason running around?

Well, look at the contrast. Terry Wallace was given four-and-a-half years (no Dustin Martin). Damien Hardwick was given seven years (with Dustin Martin). Hardwick is/was the luckiest bloke God's put on this earth.

 

[IceT]

Unfortunately, it wasn't just 2016 that was bad. We didn't make finals from 2010-2012. We embarrassed overselves in finals from 2013-2015. The bottom fell out in 2016, and it was a total of seven wasted seasons - all with talent like Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, and Rance on the list. The surprise wasn't so much that we eventually played some good football, from 2017-2020, but that it took so long to get any silverware with such talented players. And now to see us slide into another patch of wasted years, from 2021-2023. Yet there's so little talk of doing anything differently - or that Hardwick should take responsibility for the bad years, as much as the good years. I mean, it's good that we won 10 finals in four short years, but they're also the only finals wins we've had in the 13 seasons that he's been in charge.

Hopefully the experience of 2016 will result in a quick turnaround for us into 2024. Hard decisions need to be made.

Questions for me are, has Benny been distracted by the AFL CEO job last year and this year. Has the transition to a new club president been a distraction too, is the new president up to the task.

Early days, but the answer will be reflected on field.

 

[Stars align]

I'd definitely keep Ralphsmith in the side and agree with what you've said above. Just needs to be a bit cleaner, which might come with more experience at this level. The one I'm struggling to see making it is Maurice Rioli, Jnr.

Injured at present but brown will replace hrs when fit

 

[richard parker]

Some people seem to expect a flag every season

 

[SouthernStripes]

Feels like we’re over-using The handpass this year

 

[TerraTiger]

Feels like we’re over-using The handpass this year

you reckon???? to me is one of the biggest issues, we want to run from defense and use forward handball, which in itself seems a sound strategy, BUT not with no regard to ball security! We work hard to get the ball, can’t give it to risky options at any cost. It’s bound to turn over at times, and it has, frequently. Move the ball forward with quick movement, but not via high risk options, eg giving it to guys under pressure.


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[Meteoric Rise]

Unfortunately, it wasn't just 2016 that was bad. We didn't make finals from 2010-2012. We embarrassed overselves in finals from 2013-2015. The bottom fell out in 2016, and it was a total of seven wasted seasons - all with talent like Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Houli, Edwards, and Rance on the list. The surprise wasn't so much that we eventually played some good football, from 2017-2020, but that it took so long to get any silverware with such talented players. And now to see us slide into another patch of wasted years, from 2021-2023. Yet there's so little talk of doing anything differently - or that Hardwick should take responsibility for the bad years, as much as the good years. I mean, it's good that we won 10 finals in four short years, but they're also the only finals wins we've had in the 13 seasons that he's been in charge.

Damien Hardwick took over with a weak list at a club that had won 2 finals in 28 years. 301 games later Richmond has lost just 42% of the matches he has coached. The average an AFL team loses is around 49%. We have won 10 finals in 13 seasons, the average an AFL club wins over 13 seasons is 6.5 finals. Your post infers that all of those wins coming within a 4 year period is somehow bad, as if it would have been better to spread them out evenly over the 13 seasons....

I think the rest of us will gleefully accept the Premierships and gracefully accept the lack of a finals victory in the 9 seasons where we didn't win a final. You might prefer to support Eagles who spread their 9 finals wins out more evenly across 6 seasons. Or Collingwood who expertly spread their 11 finals wins out across 7 seasons. Or the Geelong Cats Football Club who spread their 14 finals wins over 9 seasons. Or Fremantle FC who adroitly spread their meagre 6 finals wins over 5 seasons to ensure those seasons were not wasted. Or Sydney Swans FC who made sure 8 seasons were not wasted by spreading their 13 finals wins across them.

Those much less wasteful clubs averaged 1 Premiership each in that 13 year period, where we wasted our way to averaging 3 flags across our 13 years.



Anyway, how many Brownlows, Norm Smiths, Grand Final sprints, Norm Goss Medals, VFL flags, VWFL flags, and Coleman Medals, have those campaigner clubs won during Hardwick's tenure aislegi?

 

[LTT]

Mate that’s on the players. I very doubt horse would have made mention of it. Sucking in a few indigenous boys is not outwitting. Outwitting means out manoeuvring. Making a move that Dimma doesn’t expect or can’t respond too.
An outwit may have been playing Mills off half back. Or Papley in the middle. Not sucking in players with a sledge. If you can’t see the difference that I can’t help you

I don’t know the man but I don’t think Horse would ever let his players do personal slurs particularly not against indigenous guys. They’ve been on the receiving end with Goodes and probably Franklyn They seem like a decent football club all things considered