Beware the Barbarians

[Elite Crow]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but our tackle count is down and we aren't really giving the kids a go

Finnaly someone who can analyse the game without the spin, I like it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How old was Brodie Smith at the start of the season Froggy? Yes, he turned 20 in January. The original stat was about players aged 18 or 19 at the start of the season (as listed by Champion Data) On our main list we had Joyce (18 - 0), Kerridge (18 - 1), Ellis-Yolmen (19 - 0), Grigg (19 - 0). Lyons (19 - 3) and Brown (19-0)

Now, 3 + 1 = 4

Let's compare this to the Kangaroos Atley (19 - 12), Harper (19 - 12), Cameron Delaney (19 - ) and McKenzie (18 - 2) and they have had less injuries than us.

How about Brisbane Crisp (18-3), Longer (18 - 5), Polec (19 - 11), Lester (19 - 11), Yeo (18 - 1), Green (19 - 5) and Karnezis (19 - 4). I'm just ball parking it here Froggy but I think thart adds up to more than 4.

Feel free to check all the stats.........AND THEN APOLOGISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. You don't have to be nervous to have a red face.

How many top-8 teams are getting plenty of games into their 18-19 year olds? Not many!

Generally only get plenty of games into players this young if rebuilding.

I'm more concerned about our core 20-25 year olds getting games & our <20 learning most of their craft in the SANFL, unless their form demands a place... rather than dropping all our 25+ players for <20 age players.

 

[Schulzycrow]

Just a question...AFGM...which 18 to 19 year olds are playing well enough to get a gig? I'm happy to see them in the team if their form warrants it. Haven't seen too many of them in the first couple of bests for SANFL...maybe Brown, Kerridge was in the bests last week. All well and good to say play the kids, but obviously people with more info than us deem them not ready for it yet.

Other teams are doing it yes, but you could say Brisbane is rebuilding after mad Vossys first year at the helm and North have been for 3 years or so. Melbourne, Richmond, The Doggies are all on the rebuild or refurnish so they are going to have more young players as they have cut their dead wood and recycled players and gone with the youth policy. Think Sando will give one year grace to some on our list from the Craig years and if they don't make the grade...Super draft coming up.

Argument has been made I sure that last couple of years we have found new younger players due to the fact we had to play just about whoever could walk. But most of the players that are now in the side or just outside selection were rooks that had matured a bit playing SANFL footy.

This year probably wont be the year for the GF, we need to get games into the 20-25 year olds that will take us deep into the finals consistently. The window is certainly open and younger players will get their turns, when the injuries and form dictate.

Take what you will from the ramble.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

How many top-8 teams are getting plenty of games into their 18-19 year olds? Not many!

Generally only get plenty of games into players this young if rebuilding.

I'm more concerned about our core 20-25 year olds getting games & our <20 learning most of their craft in the SANFL, unless their form demands a place... rather than dropping all our 25+ players for <20 age players.

How about Collingwood - 30 games, Sydney - 11 games, Essendon - 10 games, West Coast - 26 games, Hawthorn - 4 games, Geelong - 22 games and St Kilda - 19 games. That is an everage of 17.4 games across the other teams in the top 8. But just keep chanting, we are playing the KIDS.

 

[Elite Crow]

Collingwood injuries
Essendon injuries
West Coast injuries
Geelong playing kids after winning 3 flags and have fallen down the ladder
Hawks no injuries no kids
Sydney not as many injuries not as many kids
Saints having to play kids because they have a very old list and haven't in the past

But just keep chanting, because no ones heard you.

The problem is some of what you say has merit but you are just so annoying its hard to see past the pain in the arse.

I'm on the record as wanting Douglas and Doughty gone, Lyons and Smith to replace them would do me.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Just a question...AFGM...which 18 to 19 year olds are playing well enough to get a gig? I'm happy to see them in the team if their form warrants it. Haven't seen too many of them in the first couple of bests for SANFL...maybe Brown, Kerridge was in the bests last week. All well and good to say play the kids, but obviously people with more info than us deem them not ready for it yet.

Other teams are doing it yes, but you could say Brisbane is rebuilding after mad Vossys first year at the helm and North have been for 3 years or so. Melbourne, Richmond, The Doggies are all on the rebuild or refurnish so they are going to have more young players as they have cut their dead wood and recycled players and gone with the youth policy. Think Sando will give one year grace to some on our list from the Craig years and if they don't make the grade...Super draft coming up.

Argument has been made I sure that last couple of years we have found new younger players due to the fact we had to play just about whoever could walk. But most of the players that are now in the side or just outside selection were rooks that had matured a bit playing SANFL footy.

This year probably wont be the year for the GF, we need to get games into the 20-25 year olds that will take us deep into the finals consistently. The window is certainly open and younger players will get their turns, when the injuries and form dictate.

Take what you will from the ramble.

The key one is Jarryd Lyons, a 19 year old second year player who according to some Glenelg officials was BOG three weeks in a row. We have ignored Kerridge despite a very promising pre-season and it has taken him some time to get settled at Sturt. The style played at Unley is very different from the Crows and it is not surprising that it has taken him a while to get used to it. Unlike the other 17 teams, we ignored most of our KIDS during the pre-season. (want the stats?) It was fortunate that Collingwood gave almost all their KIDS a good run in the pre-season since they have been able to slip them smoothly into the team to replace all the guys that have been injured (Did you see Marley Williams and Jamie Elliott last week, let alone Alex Fasolo who is a 19 year old second year player). Luke Brown was kicking up dust at Norwood late in the pre-season and despite Sando pumping up others like Mitch Grigg we decided to use the pre-season to get Stiffy and Dogga fit.

My main issue has been ignoring Shaw despite a great pre-season and then dropping Brodie Smith. These guys were 20 at the start of the season (we also are near the bottom of the list for playing guys 18, 19 or 20).

 

[Glenno23]

I'd like to think it were that simple. Sadly, it's not. We spent most of last week chasing North Melbourne jumpers (they had 20% more disposals than we did). End result: our lowest tackle count for the entire season.

I'd argue that our form has dropped badly since the break. A below average tackle count is just one symptom of a much greater problem.

A more interesting question is why has our form dropped off? Are they doing additional training, building up for a finals campaign? Or, are our younger players just tiring as the season progresses? These questions are not intended to be rhetorical in nature.

I have heard from mates in Adelaide that we are doing some new running regimes to build the endurance up for later this year (presumably finals)

If we are loading up, its way earlier than NC had us doing it in 05 (was it round 17 we were pumped by the WC after famously "upping the training ante?) and looking back at Geelong's past few years, they also had some "down" matches between rounds 13-15. The most famous being the thumping they received from the Lions who were way down the ladder that year

Is Sando trying to emulate the Geelong path of upping the training load, but doing it a few weeks earlier to give the younger guys more time to recover going into finals?

Certainly would explain why we looked like witches hats in the last qtr Vs the Saints and the first half of NM.

If this is the case, you would think this would be the last week of it. If so, this weekend will be tough, as Richmond have a lot of runners such as Lids, Grigg, Cotchin, Edwards, Nahas who could run rings around us

 

[Elite Crow]

Do your mates have anything to do with the club?

 

[Glenno23]

No they have nothing to do officially with the club and i can't remember where they heard it from, but i had 3 of my mates confirm similar info all within 2 days after the NM loss.

And none of them know each other, so they aren't getting together to wind me up

We were just analysing the loss (as i do with mates) and they mentioned it as a possible reason. So its not 100% confirmed, but it would make some sense surely?

 

[RichardMarx]

No they have nothing to do officially with the club and i can't remember where they heard it from, but i had 3 of my mates confirm similar info all within 2 days after the NM loss.

And none of them know each other, so they aren't getting together to wind me up

We were just analysing the loss (as i do with mates) and they mentioned it as a possible reason. So its not 100% confirmed, but it would make some sense surely?

Seems to make some sense, but I fear it's just a rumour. On 5AA this week they asked Danger about it, he said they hadn't increased their training over the last couple of weeks (not that he'd tell us anyway).

 

[porpoise]

Anyone else notice that West Coast are ranked 2nd last in tackles this year?
and Collingwood are ranked 13th in tackles?

Tackle count, schmackle count.

 

[Allefgib]

The key one is Jarryd Lyons, a 19 year old second year player who according to some Glenelg officials was BOG three weeks in a row. We have ignored Kerridge despite a very promising pre-season and it has taken him some time to get settled at Sturt. The style played at Unley is very different from the Crows and it is not surprising that it has taken him a while to get used to it. Unlike the other 17 teams, we ignored most of our KIDS during the pre-season. (want the stats?) It was fortunate that Collingwood gave almost all their KIDS a good run in the pre-season since they have been able to slip them smoothly into the team to replace all the guys that have been injured (Did you see Marley Williams and Jamie Elliott last week, let alone Alex Fasolo who is a 19 year old second year player). Luke Brown was kicking up dust at Norwood late in the pre-season and despite Sando pumping up others like Mitch Grigg we decided to use the pre-season to get Stiffy and Dogga fit.

My main issue has been ignoring Shaw despite a great pre-season and then dropping Brodie Smith. These guys were 20 at the start of the season (we also are near the bottom of the list for playing guys 18, 19 or 20).

I know you love it when I'm annoying. The good news is I'm not even trying to be.. most the time.

Anyway - here is the annoyance for you.

Lyons - I'd love to see him have had more game time. With you on that.
Kerridge - you keep talking about this promising pre-season. I didn't see it. Got some more evidence for us that his pre-season justified selection round 1? Learning his craft at Sturt, not yet ready to play in a top 8 side. His time will come if he can develop. May yet get a game later in the year. Patty, a much more promising prospect than Kerridge only got the 2 or 3 games for a taster first year. Essentially, calm the **** down over Kerridge - you're looking like a goose banging on about him.
Brown - discipline reasons seem to be the go there. I'm very keen to see him but without knowing what he did wrong, hard to comment.
Grigg - can't get a game in the SANFL league side... also rumoured to have attitude issues. Let's all hope he can break them and come on as his leg sounds very promising.
Smith - just getting a rest I reckon around the bye. He had started to show a few signs of running outa gas.. I reckon, and hope, he'll be back next week. If he continues performing in the SANFL like he did last weekend and they still don't pick him, I'll go buy 2 pitchforks, one for you, one for me, and we can march down to AAMI together.
Shaw - had a 'promising' pre-season, great is a little generous from my recollection. I'm very excited about him and would love to see him get more games. Just played his third game in a row didn't he...? Missed sometime with injury. Historically very injury prone so its softly softly. Not sure what your complaint is here?

So all in all... are you still trying to be a nuisance because other people were sick of craigy and vented it unfairly in your view?
Or are you actually really concerned with some of the above? The numbers are a good reason to have a look at the situation for sure. But when you do it's really only Lyons getting more games and Smith not being dropped you can make strong arguments for.

 

[Ad76]

Anyone else notice that West Coast are ranked 2nd last in tackles this year?
and Collingwood are ranked 13th in tackles?

Tackle count, schmackle count.

There it is - surprised he got away with it for that long. While "ranked 16th in the tackle count" sounds bad, the reality is that West Coast (Avg 61) is below us (avg 63), with Collingwood (avg 64) and Essendon (avg 65) around the same mark. As far as I'm concerned that makes the average irrelevant.

What is relevant is the drop off in not only tackling, but in general intensity around the contest. AFGM - how about leaving the NC agenda aside for a bit?

 

[Southerntakeover]

As outlined at the start of the year, I looked at players aged 18 or 19 at the start of the season. It covers most but not all of the first and second year players. Following criticism that I was "manipulating the statistics", I also provided statistics on players 18, 19 and 20. We are still near the bottom of the list.

What do you consider KIDS? Everyone younger than Dogga? Should I include Nutta?

Despite having one of the youngest LISTS in the AFL, the average age of our TEAM over the first 12 matches has been one of the oldest. We have a great list of players 21-23 but we need to keep regenerating the team. A back six that includes Johncock, Rutten, Reilly and Doughty will come back to bite us on the arse, possibly in 12 weeks time.

I think applying an inflexible and rather arbitrary age cut off as almost the sole support for an argument is usually a sign that you're not heading down the right path. Theres no genuine reason why players who turned 21 today have suddenly stopped being young in football terms, and to have to argue otherwise is just demonstrates a lack of reasonableness.

I do agree with your point about our back 6 though, and I'd add that the lack of genuine speed back there is not disconnected from the age of the players, and is coming up to hurt us.

 

[Southerntakeover]

atty, a much more promising prospect than Kerridge only got the 2 or 3 games for a taster first year. Essentially, calm the **** down over Kerridge - you're looking like a goose banging on about him.

Patty was living in Melbourne at the time, not a great comparison.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

North Melbourne have had less injuries than us and they have given 31 games to their KIDS (we have given 4 games to Lyons and Kerridge or to be more precise about 200 minutes of football). The injury excuse has definitely increased the games given to the Collingwood, West Coast and Geelong KIDS but it wouldn't be hard to beat 4 games. It doesn't explain Brisbane - 40games, Bulldogs - 33 games, Richmond - 26 games and even St Kilda's Dads Army - 19 games. It is all about investing in the future. We have not been good investors so far this year.

North Melbourne have been one of the most disappointing sides in the competition. Of course they would be dropping players. We have probably been the surprise packet of the year with no injuries... You are argument is ridiculous

 

[Freddy Bassett]

How old was Brodie Smith at the start of the season Froggy? Yes, he turned 20 in January. The original stat was about players aged 18 or 19 at the start of the season (as listed by Champion Data) On our main list we had Joyce (18 - 0), Kerridge (18 - 1), Ellis-Yolmen (19 - 0), Grigg (19 - 0). Lyons (19 - 3) and Brown (19-0)

Now, 3 + 1 = 4

Let's compare this to the Kangaroos Atley (19 - 12), Harper (19 - 12), Cameron Delaney (19 - ) and McKenzie (18 - 2) and they have had less injuries than us.

How about Brisbane Crisp (18-3), Longer (18 - 5), Polec (19 - 11), Lester (19 - 11), Yeo (18 - 1), Green (19 - 5) and Karnezis (19 - 4). I'm just ball parking it here Froggy but I think thart adds up to more than 4.

Feel free to check all the stats.........AND THEN APOLOGISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. You don't have to be nervous to have a red face.

And how many wins have the Roos and Lions had?

Are you saying they are going to be a powerhouse in the AFl over the next few years and we are going to slip right back?

If not, stop talking crap

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

And how many wins have the Roos and Lions had?

Are you saying they are going to be a powerhouse in the AFl over the next few years and we are going to slip right back?

If not, stop talking crap

Anyone read the Advertiser this morning?

I guess I'm not the only one to notice the poor tackle count (I will count Sando in my team).

After 6 years of pathetic tackling and corralling we almost set a new world record with an outstanding 4 tackles in the second quarter on Sunday. This is apparently the worst quarter in the history of the Crows according to Michaelangelo Slimebag.

Denial, a river in Egypt?

You may not have noticed that the Clueless Kangaroos had a win on the weekend Freddy.

 

[Cap]

Anyone read the Advertiser this morning?

I guess I'm not the only one to notice the poor tackle count (I will count Sando in my team).

After 6 years of pathetic tackling and corralling we almost set a new world record with an outstanding 4 tackles in the second quarter on Sunday. This is apparently the worst quarter in the history of the Crows according to Michaelangelo Slimebag.

Denial, a river in Egypt?

You may not have noticed that the Clueless Kangaroos had a win on the weekend Freddy.

it is a bit rich isolating 1 bad game as a reflecting of the whole year.

lets not forget our tackling over the last 10 years has been diobolical at best.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Anyone read the Advertiser this morning?

I guess I'm not the only one to notice the poor tackle count (I will count Sando in my team).

After 6 years of pathetic tackling and corralling we almost set a new world record with an outstanding 4 tackles in the second quarter on Sunday. This is apparently the worst quarter in the history of the Crows according to Michaelangelo Slimebag.

Denial, a river in Egypt?

You may not have noticed that the Clueless Kangaroos had a win on the weekend Freddy.

And so did Melbourne.... And no doubt they have played most of their list this year aswell as they have also been disappointing....