Blight and the youngsters

[marvin]

In the frequent, lengthy selection threads, I've read a few posters suggest that Malcolm Blight gave the young kids a chance over guys who wouldn't make it. I've done some digging back through 1997 archives to see if there's merit in that.

Round 1 is a bit of a strange round, because of the famous mass call at the end of 1996. Changes between the final round 1996 side and the round 1 1997 side were (players in bold are 1st year players in 1997 + Kane Johnson, who had 2 games under his belt):

In Goodwin (debut), Keating (debut), Rintoul (debut), Williams (debut) Standfield (AFC debut), James(AFC debut),Jameson, Johnson, Pittman
Out: Caven, Chalmers, Ellen, Fernee, Andrew Jarman, Liptak, McDermott, McGuinness, Tasker.

After that, the changes were rung at selection as follows.

Round 2: Cook, Ormond-Allen, Viska in for Bond (inj), Keating (inj), Goodwin (inj)
Round 3: Gilligan, Koster and Tregenza in for Jarman (susp), Pittman (inj) and Cook
Round 4: Bond in for Viska
Round 5: Jarman, Pittman, Rehn in for Jameson (susp), Gillligan and Rintoul
Round 6: no change
Round 7: Robran, Liptak in for Bond, McCartney
Round 8: Jameson in for Williams
Round 9: no change
Round 10: Chalmers in for Standfield
Round 11: no change
Round 12: Connell, Ellen in for Smart (inj), Edwards
Round 13: Smart, Standfield, Bond, James and Gilligan in for Chalmers (inj), Tregenza (inj), Jameson (inj), Robran(inj) and Connell
Round 14: Robran, Jameson, Connell, Cook and Goodwin in for Liptak (inj), Johnson (inj), Edwards, James and Gilligan
Round 15: Johnson and Collins in for Smart (inj) and Ellen (inj)
Round 16: Smart in for Ormond-Allen
Round 17: James, Rintoul, Sampson (club debut) and Ormond-Allen in for Smart (inj), Cook (inj), Johnson (inj) and Standfield
Round 18: Chalmers in for Rintoul
Round 19: Johnson and Smart in for Ormond-Allen (inj) and Goodwin (inj)
Round 20: Ellen in for Caven (ill)
Round 21: Rintoul, Caven and Edwards in for Ricciuto (inj), James and Collins
Round 22: Ricciuto in for Edwards

So from Rounds 2-22 we had 40 changes. 22 were enforced by injury and suspension.

The 17 players omitted by Blight and his selectors at various times in 1997 were Edwards (3 times), Standfield (2x), Gilligan (2x), James (2x), Cook, Viska, Rintoul, Bond, McCartney, Williams, Connell, Ormond-Allen, and Collins.

So generally, if Blight brought a young player in, it was to replace an injured player, or to replace a fringe player.

The most experienced players dropped by Blight were Barry Standfield (99 games at the start of 1997) McCartney (70), Bond (57), James (43), Matt Connell (39 games) and Edwards (30). All except Standfield and McCartney made it back to play in two premierships. And none of them, except arguably James and/or Edwards in round 14 was dumped for a younger player.

 

[Deaneus!]

Great research there.

 

[Messiah]

Great research there.

Greg Anderson, Tony McGuinness, Chris McDermott and Andrew Jarman like this.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Geez there are some very average footballers that played in our team in 1997. That said, there were also some outright guns (even if several of them were still very young and we didn't know just how very, very good they would turn out to be).

 

[little graham]

Mcartney was never in our best 18. When all the big blokes were fit, he was never getting picked. You could never pick gillagin ahead of either ruckman.

Viska was really good tough half back flanker but his career was shortened when McLeod was moved back there. When all our other medium to small defenders were fit, Viska was never getting a game. Mcleod was a young player. It was either Viska or Bickley dropped. We needed leg speed. Our defense was very strong. Mcleod needed games but wasn't cutting it up forward. So we carried him down back for awhile. This also saved Bonds career. There was no room for Bond McLeod and Vardy in the forward line. D Jarman had to be rested up forward and we need 3 talls for correct structure. Bond and Vardy were one dimensional.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Good research, but the conclusion isn't readily apparent to me.

Did Blight play the kids or not?

 

[Smoooothy]

Mcartney was never in our best 18. When all the big blokes were fit, he was never getting picked.

You gotta wonder had Caven never been recruited if he would have had a role in 97 and not traded

 

[little graham]

Did Blight play the kids or not?

With McLeod yes.

 

[little graham]

You gotta wonder had Caven never been recruited if he would have had a role in 97 and not traded

Caven was mates with Shaw and Barrassi pushed Caven out because of Lockett. Paul Roos wanted to come here, but Fitzroy refused to trade, blamed us for their demise. Even though the whole league nearly folded and would of if interstate clubs didn't join. So we got Caven. Caven played really well at CHF in his first year but kept dropping marks after the hard work was done. Moving him back released smart into his expert mr fix it role.

In hindsight he was pivotal to our premiership

 

[Iron]

Good research, but the conclusion isn't readily apparent to me.

Did Blight play the kids or not?

I thought the conclusion was here:

So generally, if Blight brought a young player in, it was to replace an injured player, or to replace a fringe player.

 

[marvin]

Good research, but the conclusion isn't readily apparent to me.

Did Blight play the kids or not?

I intended the research for people to draw their own conclusions.

IMHO the answer is a bit of both. Yes, Blight played the kids, but generally to cover injuries. There was certainly a clear out at the end of 1996, but in 1997 there was no mass dropping of the VB / Mackay equivalents as some would like to see to accommodate Wigg or Doedee.

I did find it interesting in light of reaction to Brouch and Milera that Edwards was sent back to the SANFL multiple times (and incidentally also for a further 10 games after being dropped after around 2 in 1998).

What going back through this doesn't show is whether when the young players came in if they were vaulted past more senior options, or if they were tearing it up in their SANFL teams.


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[Plugger46]

Caven was mates with Shaw and Barrassi pushed Caven out because of Lockett. Paul Roos wanted to come here, but Fitzroy refused to trade, blamed us for their demise. Even though the whole league nearly folded and would of if interstate clubs didn't join. So we got Caven. Caven played really well at CHF in his first year but kept dropping marks after the hard work was done. Moving him back released smart into his expert mr fix it role.

In hindsight he was pivotal to our premiership

Roos wanted to come to us??? well..

 

[little graham]

Roos wanted to come to us??? well..

He was following Shaw over here. The good ship Fitzroy had hit its iceberg.

 

[Roylion]

Paul Roos wanted to come here, but Fitzroy refused to trade, blamed us for their demise.

Don't think that was the reason.

 

[Smoooothy]

Have heard that Roos wanted to come here

 

[Hobbes]

Good research, but the conclusion isn't readily apparent to me.

Did Blight play the kids or not?

Real world conclusions are rarely as clear as the questions.

 

[Messiah]

With McLeod yes.

Simon Goodwin had played only 9 games by the time 97 GF came around.
Andrew McCleod had played 59 games by the same time and was in his third season.
Both born in 1976.

 

[JohnK]

Excellent research, Marvin. A quality post.

Later when Malcolm Blight went to St Kilda, there was an uncomfortable story that emerged when a young member of that squad went to his coach and asked him what he needed to do to get into the team. Malcolm said, more or less: "Go away and do the work. I'll come to you when I'm interested in you."

That player felt as if he had been dismissed from the program, rather than included in it. Maybe this is no big deal but also, maybe Malcolm constructed a deliberate wall between his office and the players. Maybe he thought it was more important for them to prove their worth to him, than him to prove his worth to them.

It may have been a double dare type of management approach set up by a short-fuse coach which worked for two remarkable years with Adelaide and then collapsed in a remarkable and, so far, unexplained fashion.

We understand that Malcolm was burnt out. We have never understood exactly what he burnt or what burnt him. I wish he would write his book.

 

[moogerfooger]

In the frequent, lengthy selection threads, I've read a few posters suggest that Malcolm Blight gave the young kids a chance over guys who wouldn't make it. I've done some digging back through 1997 archives to see if there's merit in that.

Great analysis. It's not really a black or white situation as others have commented.

I would argue Blight instituted generational change as opposed to simply "playing the kids". By terminating McGuinness, McDermott, A Jarman and Anderson before he started, he forced the likes of Bickley, Rehn, Hart, Roo and Smart to be leaders and created space for the next gen players like McLeod, Goodwin, Johnson, Edwards and Vardy to come through. Remaining foundation players like Liptak and Tregenza would still have been considered best 22 in those years but were perpetually injured, rather than being left out for youngsters, which makes it look like more of a clean out than it really was.

We had a lot of injuries in those years as well, which IMO is why a lot of youngsters were given initial opportunities (no way would Gilligan have got a game without Rehn, Pittman and Keating all injured at the same time). But to Blighty's credit, when Vardy, Goodwin, Rintoul, Sampson and later Eccles were given their chance and performed, he generally left them in the side for extended periods.

 

[1970crow]

Good research, but the conclusion isn't readily apparent to me.

Did Blight play the kids or not?

Lot of experience lost in that list of outs from end of '96. Plus Anderson from memory. '97 would have been a train wreck. Glad I only took a passing interest back then.

 

[Slippery Pete]

in 1997 there was no mass dropping of the VB / Mackay equivalents

That's because they were already delisted.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Apparently fitness coach Neil Craig wondered what our side would look like without McDermott, McGuiness, Anderson and A.Jarman. * **

*Made that up

**For Spackler's amusement

 

[1970crow]

That's because they were already delisted.

You'd think that even the most ardent supporters of every selection decision would have noticed that the key changes occurred between the end of '96 and the beginning of '97. Everything else was working out who of the fringe players could give us something when the whips start cracking.