Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[4flagsin5yrs]

Speed ️

In my opinion he works better when he has time on his side to make the right decision.

When he's in congestion he reminds me of Fisher who gets caught out far to often. He just forces it to much

And as you said he goes missing far too often.

As a Half Forward he can put all his skills to use and be incredibly damaging. Martin is the perfect example of that. Damaging, slippery and fast with big score impact, whether its through him scoring or creating something for someone else.

For me his skillset and engine isnt good enough to be in the midfield

Name a player who doesn't?

Having a bad hair day?

 

[Arr0w]

He played a game or two in the reserves this year - was a draft candidate last year. Bit of a surprise call.

Very surprised if we added Hogg

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Very surprised if we added Hogg

Brad?

 

[Sector 7G]

Got to feel that GWS would have got pick 21 off us for Hollands if they drafted him instead of GCS. GCS are like the tubby rich kid with heaps of footy cards but no idea which are the rare ones and everyone took to the cleaners when trading.

Hopefully in the right environment Elijah will thrive.

GCS have shown best available is a poor strategy if you can’t develop them due to too many similar type players

 

[Red_man2008]

I wonder if Steven Silvagni will attend his sons wedding.

I think he may wait in the car

 

[Stickitupthem]

Carlton always feels like you’re on a roller coaster you never know if you’ll get off intact

 

[DangerousD]

It is hard to judge recruiters but I stand by (at this stage - long way to go) that Austin is better at only the draft compared to SOS.

Things to consider (and based on opinion so far)

- SOS had higher picks and therefore had more chance of getting these right.

- Weitering and Walsh fell into his lap and NO recruiter would have stuffed that up. His eldest son also fell into his lap which any Carlton recruiter would have done.

- Based on that he has hit on 3 of 8 top 20 picks (excluding Walsh and Weiters). Kemp, Curnow and McKay.

- Past pick 20 including pre season picks and rookies, SOS is 4 from 29 (14%). Cunners, Jack, TDK and Cottrell. Take out Jack an its 10%. However keeping Jack in and if you liked the Alex Silvagni pick, then make it 5 from 29 (17%). Obviously its a lot harder to get it right past pick 20.

- Past pick 20 Austin is 6 from 18 (33%) but if you rate O'Keefe, Lemmey, the big Durdin and Mirkov its 10 from 18 (56%). Obviously too early to tell at this stage for a bunch of these players, so lets just say that 1 of those will make it. That leaves him at 7 from 18 (39%). If you take out Carroll its back to 33% which is still very high.

- Austin so far, has a similar record with his picks past number 20, rookies and pre season picks compared to SOS's top 20 picks.

- Another thing to consider was that I didn't include Jack Martin in a pre season pick as this was more a trade negotiation then a selection.

We still need another 2 years before we can properly asses Austin but so far so good. I am not saying SOS was a terrible drafter, maybe compared to rest of the league he was fine (maybe not), but I am saying that Austin so far is looking better. I know a lot of the picks are debatable.

If you take out SOS 2015 year of drafting, these numbers blow out even further in favour of Austin but SOS deserves credit for that draft.

It’s also interesting to add, Austin went out and got Williams who i think we have overpaid for both in $$$ and years, Hewett who i rate, Saad and Cerra.

SOS and our club can count ourselves lucky that Tomlinson seemingly changed his mind after many believe committed to us in 2015, i shudder at the thought of missing one of Harry or Charlie for Tomlinson.

Add we pushed super hard for Shiel who has been very underwhelming, what would we have offered to get that done, would we have traded down from pick 1? SOS commented that he rated Stocker as the 6th best in that draft, imagine trading down to 6 and getting Stocker and SHiel instead of Walsh.

We also offered a 6 year $6M deal for Cognilio who only now has started playing good footy again but no where close to $1M per year.

Im very happy we failed on these potential recruits, we would be in a very bad spot otherwise.

 

[DangerousD]

Brad?

Rodney

 

[Stamos]

Add we pushed super hard for Shiel who has been very underwhelming, what would we have offered to get that done, would we have traded down from pick 1? SOS commented that he rated Stocker as the 6th best in that draft, imagine trading down to 6 and getting Stocker and SHiel instead of Walsh.

We were never trading the Walsh pick.
We would have given them F1, and missed out on Kemp and Philp. Still dodged a bullet though.

 

[DangerousD]

We were never trading the Walsh pick.
We would have given them F1, and missed out on Kemp and Philp. Still dodged a bullet though.

Bombers gave up two 1st rounders, giving our F1 would have happened but not sure how the rest got done. Im not sure about Walsh, i thought there was a lot of chat here that SOS loved M King, but who knows, just speculating.

Very lucky to miss a few.

 

[Stamos]

Bombers gave up two 1st rounders, giving our F1 would have happened but not sure how the rest got done. Im not sure about Walsh, i thought there was a lot of chat here that SOS loved M King, but who knows, just speculating.

Very lucky to miss a few.

Bombers over-paid. We weren't going to over-pay like that.

 

[WyntersGame_]

you'd be fun at a party!

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based off a constructive incoming player discussion on a forum.

Kind of the purpose behind these forums unless we are here to wear rose tinted glasses about every player and just say how fantastic they are.

But hey you do you

 

[thylacine60]

Racking up possessions in the VFL is one thing but converting that to the AFL is another. We had prime examples on own list that were debated about all year round on this forum

One game for a season does not sell me even if it is a VFL GF

I will have my hesitations until he plays and as I said I want to be wrong in my misgivings because I want our players to succeed.

unique take - every other supporter has him top 4 in the b&f........fmd.......

 

[thylacine60]

I wonder if Steven Silvagni will attend his sons wedding.

you and your mates might want to back off with this pointless shit......

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Rodney

Boss

 

[WyntersGame_]

unique take - every other supporter has him top 4 in the b&f........fmd.......

In fairness, I was basing my comment off the previous poster stating his Stats from the VFL GF was justification enough for getting him onboard

My point was we had similar players who were within our VFL team who were also showing the same form. But within the forum there were arguments / discussions all year about whether they should be within the AFL team on gameday.

If we are going purely off that information it doesn't mean a lot.

But hey he's a Carlton player now and full support to him. I hope he claims that HF position as his own and is the complimentary key to Martin and Cunners. And if not them whoever steps into that role within the team. I think his tank will help him supply the pressure we need off that HF line where we have be caught out this year

 

[BlueTongue]

He has great hands, works well in congestion, has burst speed and a very good kick. His only downside is he goes awol. Need to put him in somewhere to hunt for the ball

Going AWOL is my main concern.
He just doesn't seem hungry enough, which really irks me because I'd say he is in our top 3 ball users.
Needs to build a tank - maybe too slow for a winger, but Ideally that's where I'd play him, especially now we have Dutchy Mark 1 to patrol the forward line with weapons on both sides of his body.

 

[RPCB]

Socks up….?

Sides of head shaved but only the sides.

 

[RPCB]

I wonder if Steven Silvagni will attend his sons wedding.

He probably will but the wedding photographer will need to use a Google Pixel 8 phone to edit him smiling.

 

[Blue__Balls]

In fairness, I was basing my comment off the previous poster stating his Stats from the VFL GF was justification enough for getting him onboard

My point was we had similar players who were within our VFL team who were also showing the same form. But within the forum there were arguments / discussions all year about whether they should be within the AFL team on gameday.

If we are going purely off that information it doesn't mean a lot.

But hey he's a Carlton player now and full support to him. I hope he claims that HF position as his own and is the complimentary key to Martin and Cunners. And if not them whoever steps into that role within the team. I think his tank will help him supply the pressure we need off that HF line where we have be caught out this year

But you weren't told to look at his VFL GF stats, you were told to watch the game.

Your comment: Having a tank is fantastic but if the skills aren't there then it's pointless.

Have you watched him play at all? Because he absolutely has the skills - which makes it tank AND skills, and certainly not pointless.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

In fairness, I was basing my comment off the previous poster stating his Stats from the VFL GF was justification enough for getting him onboard

My point was we had similar players who were within our VFL team who were also showing the same form. But within the forum there were arguments / discussions all year about whether they should be within the AFL team on gameday.

If we are going purely off that information it doesn't mean a lot.

But hey he's a Carlton player now and full support to him. I hope he claims that HF position as his own and is the complimentary key to Martin and Cunners. And if not them whoever steps into that role within the team. I think his tank will help him supply the pressure we need off that HF line where we have be caught out this year

no one said that.

were you on the hooch last night?

 

[Earls Smother]

no one said that.

were you on the hooch last night?

Why is the poster not allowed to have some doubts?

The reality is, none of us really know what we are going to see from EH. We hope it will be the best version possible, but GC would have hoped the same.

He was given the first 4 games this year, then not seen again until round 18. His VFL numbers were erratic and he kicked 7 goals in 15 games at that level, so he wasn't dominating as a forward.

He came back into the ones for the last 5 games. In the final 3 of those, he was subbed off, which can hardly be taken as a positive. Played a great game in the VFL granny, which is definitely a positive.

We've heard about the knee rehab and we've heard about the drinking. Again, we don't know the true situation with either. Wouldn't be the first kid to struggle with homesickness and temptations up there.

We'll back ourselves to bring out the best in him, but from what I am reading, he has already pushed out incumbents and is in our best 22. We all want that to be the case, because it obviously makes us better, but we can't possibly know it's the case.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

We gave up pick 8 in the 2020 draft to get Saad from memory - yesterday we got the bloke taken at pick 7 in the same draft for stuff all. Funny how it all works out. That draft the bombres went after Cox / Perkins / Reid - so far 2 of them looking flaky with one almost guaranteed bust and Perkins showing moderate signs.

There is no guarantee drafting - even in the first round.

Also worth noting - the List Manager is not the Recruitment Manager. Yes he's accountable for all players we bring in but when it comes to the draft as opposed to trade the Recruiting Managers are the main drivers. Brodie and Agresta have been there across SOS and Austin. So the SOS vs. Austin debate regarding drafted players is a particularly stupid one. Especially when you selectively exclude players from the conversation.

 

[Arr0w]

Why is the poster not allowed to have some doubts?

The reality is, none of us really know what we are going to see from EH. We hope it will be the best version possible, but GC would have hoped the same.

He was given the first 4 games this year, then not seen again until round 18. His VFL numbers were erratic and he kicked 7 goals in 15 games at that level, so he wasn't dominating as a forward.

He came back into the ones for the last 5 games. In the final 3 of those, he was subbed off, which can hardly be taken as a positive. Played a great game in the VFL granny, which is definitely a positive.

We've heard about the knee rehab and we've heard about the drinking. Again, we don't know the true situation with either. Wouldn't be the first kid to struggle with homesickness and temptations up there.

We'll back ourselves to bring out the best in him, but from what I am reading, he has already pushed out incumbents and is in our best 22. We all want that to be the case, because it obviously makes us better, but we can't possibly know it's the case.

You do realise he cost us a pick in the 50s.

Forget next years draft, could you identify a couple of players in this draft that we could take with a late 3rd rounder?

As for who he might push out, on current raw talent, I think he has a number of our current small forwards covered, due to his scoreboard impact and midfield prowess

Ultimately, it's not a sheep station trade given the cost

 

[ferrisb]

It’s also interesting to add, Austin went out and got Williams who i think we have overpaid for both in $$$ and years, Hewett who i rate, Saad and Cerra.

SOS and our club can count ourselves lucky that Tomlinson seemingly changed his mind after many believe committed to us in 2015, i shudder at the thought of missing one of Harry or Charlie for Tomlinson.

Add we pushed super hard for Shiel who has been very underwhelming, what would we have offered to get that done, would we have traded down from pick 1? SOS commented that he rated Stocker as the 6th best in that draft, imagine trading down to 6 and getting Stocker and SHiel instead of Walsh.

We also offered a 6 year $6M deal for Cognilio who only now has started playing good footy again but no where close to $1M per year.

Im very happy we failed on these potential recruits, we would be in a very bad spot otherwise.

It feels like Carlton has been on the wrong side of 'sliding doors' moments for 20 years.

Your post is an excellent reminder that we did in fact get very lucky in a few very important turning points.