Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[katmanblue]

Kennedy hasn’t played a game at any level since Round 17, that’s 7 weeks this weekend, he’s miles behind in actual match fitness and also touch just something to consider when we have Cerra Walsh McGovern coming back from injury layoffs as well…

Kennedy : Rd 17 FREM 7 weeks
Cerra : Rd 20 COLL 4 weeks
Walsh : Rd 19 WCE 5 weeks
McGovern : Rd 21 (training) 4 weeks

This is where no VFL really hurts.

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[Matty411]

This is where no VFL really hurts.

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Surely the VIC-based clubs could organise a refresher praccy match to get some kms into the legs of guys available for AFL finals. Reckon a few VFL players would sign up to play.

 

[Opium]

Dow's loyalty and persistence has blinded supporters who think he is more than "a good ordinary player",on the cusp of our best 22 and a delight to have as back up when the big 5 get injured.

Without Dow we don't win last week. Durable 23 year old who has a wicked side step and great hands.

 

[katmanblue]

Agree with all of that, especially the defensive pressure point. He is the only player I can think of that consistently does not aggressively attack the man with the ball, he generally sits back and semi corrals allowing the opponent to easily dispose of it. Even Fisher is doing it since he’s come back into the team and he was the biggest ‘corraler’.

I imagine it’s linked to his tank? Or mindset? If he cleaned up that part of his game he’d be a really good player.

Unfortunately I can see it coming all together for him in a few years likely at another club.

Ideally for us he stays on our list and develops for another year or two but he will likely be looking for immediate opportunity elsewhere which is fair enough.

He's very nice. Anyone who's spoken to him will tell you that he's very pleasant. Lewis Young is the same.

I'm not sure if there's actually a relationship between the two data points, or if I'm just seeing things.

Pretty much the other guys I've spoken to have a bit of that belligerents in them.

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[macky99]

Kennedy is no doubt a very good player...

I don't see where both Kennedy & Hewett fits in the same best 22 anymore...

What Dow has at least shown speed from the contest has transformed our midfield...
By no means am I saying Dow is the answer, but a player that can defend with speed and foot skills would make our midfield much better...

I doubt Kennedy will get back this week, based on missing the amount of footy he has, having three midfielders missing significant footy is not ideal.

Dow should remain this week, he has certainly done enough to keep his spot for this week, still unconvinced Cripps & Hewett and Kennedy in the same mid field in September is ideal.
Dow provides a point of difference & Hewett is back in form

 

[jj1978]

Without Dow we don't win last week. Durable 23 year old who has a wicked side step and great hands.

He's very evasive, has introduced marking as a strength that I never knew he had to that degree. He needs better penetration with his handballs though.. but he was instrumental against GC and doesn't deserve to make way this week at least.

 

[thylacine60]

tractor was a pretty gentle "unnagressive" type ruckman regardless of his endless thirst for the competition and second and third efforts - richmond's "gentle giant" roy wright won a couple of brownlows........

 

[katmanblue]

Call me silly, but I just think if Ed can play 17 games this year (and i love Ed), surely there's a place for Dow in our 23 as a constant in 2024.

Hi Silly,

How many of those games did Ed play inside mid? Just because Ed can play inside mid, that doesn't mean that's how he was used this year. Ed is much more flexible.

Dow is currently better in his main position, but is not as flexible.

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[katmanblue]

Cuners has to stay. He’s looked a bit tired the last couple of weeks, but his skill set is unique and invaluable. Marchy may be squeezed out. I think as good as he’s been, Fish will still be moved on, freeing up space. Dow, I’d love him to stay but the lure of more or less guaranteed footy may be too strong. That leaves room for JSOS to stay I reckon.

Not contact related but there is no way Hewett is out of this side when fit, ever. His composure and decision making has been vital in tight contests the last couple of weeks. The exact type of bloke you need come finals time.

He's missed so much football over the last few years. Playing week in week out might be catching up with him. The pre finals bye will be coming at a good time for him.

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[CrazyJoeFevola]

He's missed so much football over the last few years. Playing week in week out might be catching up with him. The pre finals bye will be coming at a good time for him.

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Agreed. Wouldn’t be opposed to him missing this week or being the sub. We need him fresh for finals. Just so glad he’s out there.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Hi Silly,

How many of those games did Ed play inside mid? Just because Ed can play inside mid, that doesn't mean that's how he was used this year. Ed is much more flexible.

Dow is currently better in his main position, but is not as flexible.

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Just because we haven’t seen it in the last few weeks doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Dow was kicking plenty of goals in the VFL, both set shot and open play. He’s still building, bloke has shown he’s a clutch performer & has gotten better every single game, I don’t understand why people aren’t more excited to see what he can do next.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Just because we haven’t seen it in the last few weeks doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Dow was kicking plenty of goals in the VFL, both set shot and open play. He’s still building, bloke has shown he’s a clutch performer & has gotten better every single game, I don’t understand why people aren’t more excited to see what he can do next.

Agree with almost all of what you have posted, alas it seems most likely that we won't see the best of Dow with us, even if we move Ed to the Vets List next season.

We simply have too much depth at his position and he will also get considerably more money at St Kilda (from what I have ascertained) and more opportunities to be a starting 18 player.

Said it yesterday but of the price of becoming a finals/flag contending team is losing players we want to keep.

 

[katmanblue]

Both Cuners and Martin can kick goals from 50+.

Not many others can - Guv, Charlie, maybe Harry & Doc (sometimes)....

Kemp Cincotta Williams maybe Newman

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[Arr0w]

Doesn't mean they can't be on the same list

Neither Kennedy or Hewett will depart

 

[Healer]

Kemp Cincotta Williams maybe Newman

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Cerra Walsh

 

[thylacine60]

Just because we haven’t seen it in the last few weeks doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Dow was kicking plenty of goals in the VFL, both set shot and open play. He’s still building, bloke has shown he’s a clutch performer & has gotten better every single game, I don’t understand why people aren’t more excited to see what he can do next.

perhaps because they saw his progression as a direct result of coaching standards and expectations, and had confidence that should he abide by what was wanted of him, he would eventually become the player we all desired and hoped he would.....just a thought......

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Not to blame him but the Williams contract is a bit of a disaster right now...no meaningful return from him in 3 years.

On a big contract and can't help but think it might hamper us from keeping some guys like JSOS, Dow and Fish.

Guys like Cinc, Fisher and Boyd stepping up mean we don't really need him either and those 3 would be on modest contracts. Williams might be a better player than those 3, but his injury history and substantially bigger contract isn't worth the difference.

Just have to suck it up and hope Williams can get on the park, it is what it is. We aren’t moving him on and paying 4-500k of his contract to play at another club.

Maybe the time off will allow the rest of his body to heal, I still think he has a lot to offer but it won’t meet the expectations of his overall contract but on a yearly basis left it may.

Everybody loved Daisy Thomas when he was able to get on the park consistently, I think the same will be with Williams


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[CaptainCharisma]

Call me silly, but I just think if Ed can play 17 games this year (and i love Ed), surely there's a place for Dow in our 23 as a constant in 2024.

I don't know about silly but maybe deliberately obscure.
Feel like Voss and co gave Ed every chance to nail down a place for the first half of the season after missing all of last year with injury.

Once the match committee figured out he was at the back of the pecking order (admittedly they were slow to that conclusion) that is where he has been.
He has played 2 starting games since the bye and 3 as sub and that is mainly due to the injuries of Walsh, Cerra and Kennedy.

As a lot of others have said, if the whole list is fully fit then Dow is definitely behind Cripps, Walsh and Cerra and fighting with Hewett and Kennedy for game time who we already have under multi-year contracts.
I don't think anyone in our list management team would be able to guarantee him a constant spot.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Yes, the typo was funny.

I have to say though, I reckon it might be time to put the Gov=fat or brackets thing to bed. He's done the hard yards to come back from that. Do we need to keep bringing it back up? At what point can we give the bloke some respect?

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Too late, pretty sure even one of Gov's children has 'BRACKETS' printed on his precious no. 11 guernsey.

 

[TerryWallet]

I'll be surprised if Dow is out this week. He was probably our best mid on the weekend. It would be a huge call to recall 3 mids who have all missed a month or more out and drop one who is in good form. But also there is a chance to use the game as a warmup for those mids if Vossy is determined to play them in the first final. Obviously Walsh and Cerra come str8 in. I think on balance, Kennedy will have to train the house down during the next 2 weeks to get back in. Hopefully he does as the competition is great for Carlton.

Selection for the first final will be the intriguing one. I think Paddy gets another chance to either play himself in or play himself out this week. ATM he's playing himself in, but you get the feeling one slip up will see him out.

Play well young man. You've been a credit to yourself this year.

 

[JustaBattler]

Kemp Cincotta Williams maybe Newman

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add Docherty and Motlop based on actual goals scored - Motlop kicked one fromn the boundary a while back and last week off one step under pressure from about 47 merters out - that was a wow goal to me anyway.

 

[katmanblue]

Surely the VIC-based clubs could organise a refresher praccy match to get some kms into the legs of guys available for AFL finals. Reckon a few VFL players would sign up to play.

Of course but it's not a finals like situation.

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[gbatman]

We are going to have injuries. We want to win premierships.

Having those 30 odd players who can play AFL footy at a high level is how you achieve the latter with the reality of the former.

If we can keep the group together for the next 3 or 4 years at best there is a Carlton dynasty to take advantage of. At worst we might squeeze one premiership out of this group.

I expect the injury issue to get better as the list depth remains super high as injury management will be a lot better. We also should be looking to be playing a lot of our top 30-35 during any given season as to rest players and accommodate injuries.

So it would be a phenomenal effort for us to be able to sign Dow, Silvagni and Marchbank.

We've looked after a lot of these players, we are a strong club in a premiership window, we are looking like a club that can get a lot out of it's players and manage their injuries and fitness well so we have a lot going for us even if money gets tight.

Going forward it could get hard to sign players. Cincotta, Durdin, Carroll, Martin, Boyd, Cottrell and Owies coming out of contract next year I believe.

I think the best thing we can do is offer contract length. Sometimes taking a long contract is a smarter option than taking a short but high contract.

Either way our list is good enough, brimming with talent, it's now about keeping the group together.

 

[katmanblue]

Just because we haven’t seen it in the last few weeks doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Dow was kicking plenty of goals in the VFL, both set shot and open play. He’s still building, bloke has shown he’s a clutch performer & has gotten better every single game, I don’t understand why people aren’t more excited to see what he can do next.

Sure. He has improved. Quite a bit.

The problem is he's probably not better in a secondary position than the incumbent would be in their primary position. The only way he gets a gig in that case is through injury.

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[katmanblue]

Too late, pretty sure even one of Gov's children has 'BRACKETS' printed on his precious no. 11 guernsey.

His son is about 4 months old...

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