Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[BringFevBack2021]

Leigh Montagna

Leigh Montagna

Age

41

Ht

178cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.9

5star

K

14.8

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

482.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.8

2star

HB

1.2

2star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

has a role at Freo with list management/talent acquisition or something and on the midweek rub he reckons we are really keen to retain our 2024 1st pick, and thinks we will get Houston (but need to get creative) to get him in

So safe to say that is something that is known amongst list management teams to a degree

 

[GT619]

Post some rumours you cowards. I'm bored. They don't have to be real or current I already know about pavlich

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Post some rumours you cowards. I'm bored. They don't have to be real or current I already know about pavlich

After the Bont's disappointing Brownlow count, we've now cooled on him

 

[Crippa#9]

The way the whole free agency rules work is a disaster of perverse incentives.
It encourages gross overpayment of individuals which is problematic for the pay of the rest of the list. I'm surprised that the Players Association hasn't identified that if 6-7 individuals take up 40% of the salary cap at one club, there is much less money for the rest.

I think any uncontracted player (regardless of years of service) should be able to sign with the club of their choice. The club they are departing should receive compensation in the form of draft points (instead of specific picks) that are taken from the club that is signing them.
Note: Clubs should commence the trade period with an allocation of draft points, and only after the trade period ends should those draft points be converted into a draft order.

The compensation should be calculated based on an average of their previous and new contract and the club the player is departing should have no right to match the bid.
This would actually encourage clubs to pay incoming players enough money to lure them across but discourage them from excessive payments as that would lead to greater loss of draft points (i.e. lead to lower draft picks).

If a club wants a player but isn't willing to pay the compensatory draft points for them, then that player (if unsigned by any club) should have to go into the draft. This would encourage a player to only leave for a club that is willing to cough up the compensation points, and they would be more inclined to re-sign with their club where possible to avoid going into the draft. This way the club they are departing gets something unless the player is just not rated as anything more than an opportunistic, low-priority pick-up by all other clubs.

It's absurd that we lose Jack Martin for nothing if there are a number of clubs willing to sign him up.

Such a Carlton thing to do...

 

[Jatz]

I'm glad we'd be leaving the door open for Petracca.

Houston has changed his mind, why not Christian...

 

[Sam The Doc]

Petracca would be the biggest fool to do those videos only to request a trade again...

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Such a Carlton thing to do...

We practically gave away Dow, Setterfield, SPS and Fisher.

We got nothing for Jarrod Waite who led the Kanga's goal-kicking and played another four seasons. It's just a joke.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I was happy when we got Williams but not impressed with the $$$ and years offered, there were lots at the time who were very critical of the details, not so much the player.

It’s a little bit more than speculation though, Zac was a free agent, meaning we, via Zacs agent had to submit paperwork to the AFL to pass on to the Giants, who refused to match.

Just like with Martin, the details of the contract weren’t a secret because we had to lodge them with the AFL.

I am a little sceptical on how/why it would be known that it was x amount this year compared to others though.

Not sure how strict agents are with details like this.

Go back and have a look at Zac Williams thread in the blues player and Carlton reserves category and you will notice two things.

1) There was not one poster that thought that his recruitment was anything but great at the time. Plenty of respected posters were delighted. Seems that there is now plenty of retrospective recruiters who now know better.

2) The salary figures that were mentioned by many in that thread at the time have now been superseded by all and sundry. I can't imagine as to how nobody seemed to know what his salary was when he signed on but everyone thinks that they know now.

 

[Jatz]

Martin was out of contract, how did anyone want us to get anything for him?

 

[BIuebagger]

Triniboy about to feel the wrath of Aph

 

[BigFrizz36]

We practically gave away Dow, Setterfield, SPS and Fisher.

We got nothing for Jarrod Waite who led the Kanga's goal-kicking and played another four seasons. It's just a joke.

I'd suggest that we probably got more for all of those 4 than they were actually worth, we pretty much turned Fisher into E. Hollands.

Waite was a free agent and the AFL determined that we wouldn't get any compo for him.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Triniboy about to feel the wrath of Aph

I did it the other week, as I'd clicked enter, realised. Kind of like Squid games....

 

[Christou2Kouta]

I'd suggest that we probably got more for all of those 4 than they were actually worth, we pretty much turned Fisher into E. Hollands.

Waite was a free agent and the AFL determined that we wouldn't get any compo for him.

My point is that it feels so arbitrary. Surely the worth can only be determined by what another club would be willing to pay for them (in terms of salary). If someone is willing to pay, then they're worth something and the club losing the player deserves compensation.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Martin was out of contract, how did anyone want us to get anything for him?

The whole system of trading out of contract players is bizarre. It's supposed to be some gentleman's agreement that you trade something fairly, with the occasional club playing hardball like we did with Martin getting him from the Gold Coast, who then chose to cut off their nose to spite their face and forced him into the preseason draft.

It's like the mankad rule in cricket. It exists but it's considered unsporting behaviour to use it.

It needs a revamp like I suggested earlier in the thread.

 

[Tjblues]

We practically gave away Dow, Setterfield, SPS and Fisher.

We got nothing for Jarrod Waite who led the Kanga's goal-kicking and played another four seasons. It's just a joke.

Dow played less than half a season for the team who finished 12th

Setters is a fringe option for 11th

SPS lasted 2 years at the worst team in the comp before being delisted

Fisher had a mediocre season for 17th

Waite if I’m not mistaken was a free agent so nothing we could do

Our list management is not perfect by any stretch, but it’s revisionist history to suggest we’ve been offloading valuable assets for nothing

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Much the same as Houston, we have left the door open for Petracca to do a backflip and request a trade to Carlton.

#Bluemour

If he attends our b&f I'll get excited

 

[myblueroan]

I'm glad we'd be leaving the door open for Petracca.

Houston has changed his mind, why not Christian...

Indeed.
And Christian, I'm happy to perform the backflip for you if you are still too sore.

 

[Jatz]

The whole system of trading out of contract players is bizarre. It's supposed to be some gentleman's agreement that you trade something fairly, with the occasional club playing hardball like we did with Martin getting him from the Gold Coast, who then chose to cut off their nose to spite their face and forced him into the preseason draft.

It's like the mankad rule in cricket. It exists but it's considered unsporting behaviour to use it.

It needs a revamp like I suggested earlier in the thread.

It might well do.

But in the interim, with the rules as they currently are, I'm still not sure how people wanted us to get something for him?

Especially when we didn't give up anything to get him in similar circumstances.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I see the mistake as targeting Williams, not what we tried to do with him.
Even when the midfield move failed, he is so far off the player he was at GWS it’s staggering.

He had a good 2019 at GWS - however still didn't make the AA squad of 44, the rest were so-so. His only real midfield stint was that famous Prelim.

It was amateur hour from start to finish. Reeked of a bit of a 'statement' from the club more than anything to announce we believe we hit our window.

However, reckon he has legs as a small forward. Naturally knows where the goals are, bloody quick reaction time, clean below his knees and good skills. Really hope he gets a full pre-season training that position and fills that hole, genuinely think it would almost transform us if he kicks on there.

 

[agro]

Do you want them all playing half back ? Or would you prefer some in the midfield and at half forward too ? According to this place our half backs are already all elite kicks

All over the ground thanks and when we kick into the forward 50, prefer they can lower their eyes.

 

[Crippa#9]

Petracca would be the biggest fool to do those videos only to request a trade again...

After all that went down with him and the accusations of 'Brand Petracca' etc, deciding not to attend their B&F (which just happens to coincide with the beginning of trade period) does leave a bit to the imagination...

I know there's been videos put out but I wouldn't be completely comfortable if i'm Melbourne until the trade period is finished.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Indeed.
And Christian, I'm happy to perform the backflip for you if you are still too sore.

Would that end well?

 

[Christou2Kouta]

It might well do.

But in the interim, with the rules as they currently are, I'm still not sure how people wanted us to get something for him?

Especially when we didn't give up anything to get him in similar circumstances.

I'm not suggesting we had any levers to pull to get anything of major value for Martin with the rules as they stand.

My rant to fill time in the day is that the rules are bad, with that as an example of why they are bad.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I'm glad we'd be leaving the door open for Petracca.

Houston has changed his mind, why not Christian...

You never fully close the door on a player like Tracc, but I fail to see how it would get done.
Would cost far too much in terms of both picks and dollars. I couldn't see too many teams that could actually afford it.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Dow played less than half a season for the team who finished 12th

Setters is a fringe option for 11th

SPS lasted 2 years at the worst team in the comp before being delisted

Fisher had a mediocre season for 17th

Waite if I’m not mistaken was a free agent so nothing we could do

Our list management is not perfect by any stretch, but it’s revisionist history to suggest we’ve been offloading valuable assets for nothing

I wasn't suggesting that we did anything wrong in particular. This was not a critique of Austin's list management, this was a rant about the rules that make exchanging resources between AFL clubs an inconsistent affair.

In particular, when players are out of contract, you have no leverage, so you basically trade to the club of their choice for whatever pittance they decide to throw back your way.

Except occasionally, in situations like Cerra, you're somehow obligated to throw them a first-round pick for their troubles.