Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[JustOneTime]

It's really pretty simple, whilst it might annoy some people on this board as it doesn't fit in with their cut throat narrative, but we did somewhat as a gesture of goodwill.

Yes he came across on a "big contract", although I would dispute that as his average annual salary was just a tick under $600k per season when he signed.
Heavily front loaded so we could get him in the preseason draft, was meant to earn 1mil in that first season, but lost out on a little over 300k due to covid. So he was on around $540k, about 100k above the average wage of an AFL player.

He had zero luck whilst at our club fitness wise, and despite what some people say, it wasn't from lack of professionalism.

We could have offered him a base contract that he would reject, then have gone to war for a 4th round draft pick, squabbled and made life difficult, maybe been offered a same round pick upgrade in the 4th or a future 4th pick which would no longer of had DIV points attached.

Then if all that failed, he could just wait until the end of final list lodgments, no longer be bound to the club, and end up at another team as an SSP. The club would also have to pay him an amount of money during the period that he is uncontracted but not delisted.

Given we were not going to offer him a contract that would have seen him stay, and given that his draft value is as close to zero as one can imagine, also taking into account that grace in which he took a pretty decent pay cut from his original contract (that was prior to the lack of games he actually played). It seems like a fair thing to do.

On top of all that, he is managed by TGI, and you don't want to piss them off.

Well explained 43.

From a different perspective it seems a lot of our players over a number of years (and over different administrations) have ended up playing elsewhere for next to no return.

Stocker is another player where the club would have its internal reasons for offloading him for nothing. Even though Stocker isn't that great a player what is the value of a player vs a draft number that fits in a best 22 most weeks like Stocker has for the Saints.

Anyone intrnal to Carlton will say there were reasons but it seems there have been so many reasons over the years. Waite, Eddie, Garlett, Fisher, Stocker, Robinson, Tuohy, Grigg, Sam Jacobs, Liam Jones (I know but how many wrong side of a player exiting does Carlton want).

Henderson, Yarran and Gibbs seem like positives.

Over a journey Carlton haven't been great at even understanding talent they have on their own books let alone trading them for value (Betts, Jacobs).

At the very least, an area for improvement.

 

[Opium]

View attachment 2121980

Would suit the recruiting policy and feel right at home.

 

[RPCB]

Cherry picking, we used the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson on Charlie Curnow, dual (so far) Coleman Medallist.

Henderson came in for the Fev trade, Henderson went out for the pick that was ultimately Charlie, at least four years apart

The pick from the Lachie Henderson trade did eventually net us a Coleman medallist but the wrong one was named. Lachie was traded to Geelong for a future first round pick, that pick was traded to GWS (as well as 28, 77 and 95) for five players plus Pick 8 in that national draft. Two academy players were matched bids with Pick 3 and Pick 7 of that draft, so our Pick 8 was pushed out to Pick 10 (Harry). Charlie was Pick 12.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

How do you think it would play out though?
Take our big players, Charlie, Harry and others, why would they commit long term to us knowing we can trade them somewhere they’re not interested in going?

Charlie turns and goes I want two years at 1.5M because a long term deal doesn’t actually offer any stability.

Then from another side, we want a player from WA who’s a star but doesn’t want to leave WA, has no desire to play for us but we trade top value picks and deal with WC and they send him to us.

What standard are we expecting from someone who doesn’t want to play for us?

Why is there an obsession with being able to control a players movement? What sports allow this? As far as I know, not many.

I liked your trade period idea, but again, why should a club be entitled to anything for an in contracted player? I’m not aware of other codes who do this.

I’m not advocating for trading contracted players against their will, just musing as to what that would look like.

I think the main reason a player might sign a longer term agreement in that scenario is to lock in their salary (protects them in the event of injury, loss of form etc). This might make them harder to trade as other clubs may not want to accommodate their salary, therefore giving them greater likelihood of staying at the same club.

I think the AFL is a different beast to leagues like the NBA and Major League Baseball. Team chemistry is such a significant factor in success that I don’t think clubs would necessarily go nuclear and disrupt things that often. It’s more about finding the 1-2 critical missing pieces to bring balance to your team, or cover positions that have been decimated by injury.

If another club genuinely wanted you, they’d find a way to make you feel comfortable on arrival. The worst scenario for a player would be to be sent to a club as a “salary dump”. A club with room in their salary cap would take you in a trade to improve their draft hand but not to play you in the 1s.

As I say, the Player’s Association would be very unlikely to allow such a change, unless they potentially had greater freedom of movement when uncontracted, and another substantial increase in the salary cap.

Why should clubs be compensated when a player leaves?
Well in these scenarios, if you had a number of players who could leave when uncontracted, it might give you more cap space to attract other players, but if you couldn’t attract other players, and you were just left with a standard set of draft picks, that would be cause for absolute despair for that club and their supporters.

If you at least received compensation in the form of draft points when uncontracted players left, you’d end up with a much stronger hand at the draft which is cause for optimism in the future, both in on field performance and also for trade capital.

The other good natural equaliser is that if you lose some uncontracted players but sign others to take their place, your draft hand would be minimally affected.


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[manang magoos]

I’ll bet my arse he got that for at least one year.

Martin too.

That’s a lot of dough.

When blokes like Mac Andrew can get 12 mill over 9 years when basically he’s played a few good games and only about 50 overall 800K is almost chicken feed

 

[Foucault1989]

View attachment 2121980

Sign him up! Fast!

 

[BlueSuede]

View attachment 2121980

Oh man... he's going to come to Carlton, isn't he?

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Owies is at the peak of his value. He is not going to play better football, maybe a similar year, but not a 40-50 goal year.

Durdin, Motlop etc. are basically bottom of their value.

People like the idea of selling high and buying low until there are names attached

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There is absolutely zero reason he can't become a 40-50 goal player....

He kicked three in a half of one game this year, could have made it 4 but offloaded unselfishly to Fantasia...

this year he kicked 33.13 with 15 goal assists....

We all know how abysmal our ball use has been going inside 50.... tidy that up....

Durdin - we don't know if he'll ever be durable enough (or good enough frankly).

Mots teases too.... the jury's out.

Simply have to chop (pay out) Fantasia imo. There's the spot for Owies right there....

 

[Coops93]

There is absolutely zero reason he can't become a 40-50 goal player....

He kicked three in a half of one game this year, could have made it 4 but offloaded unselfishly to Fantasia...

this year he kicked 33.13 with 15 goal assists....

We all know how abysmal our ball use has been going inside 50.... tidy that up....

Durdin - we don't know if he'll ever be durable enough (or good enough frankly).

Mots teases too.... the jury's out.

Simply have to chop (pay out) Fantasia imo. There's the spot for Owies right there....

To be frank, I don't think going forward he's the kind of forward we really need. How many teams need a 3rd marking target in a small forwards body? Granted he got 30 goals which is very good, but that's why I think that's around his max. Can't see him getting 40+ given he lacks crumbing nous or any goal scoring instinct aside from lead up marking - which is useful now doubt, not knocking that- but it's just not a rounded skillset and at his size you wonder how sustainable it is.

Further, we have a couple of smaller forwards in the pipeline. Obviously the guys on the list, Durdin, Motlop, Moir for example, but in this yrs draft we've been linked with small forwards, then in next years draft we have Gresham in the academy and the yr after Walker - who likely won't walk right in as a mid and likely starts his career forward. So we can't clog up small forward spots.

He'll want a 3-4 yr contract on good salary (not premium, just good) and assurances of gametime, we can't really offer him any of that. If Moir comes on, Motlop comes on, then draftees in the next 2-3 yrs, Owies could very easily be on the outer and we'd be left hanging on to a 2-3 yrs of solid salary and a guy who thinks he should be playing best 22 every week but isn't.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

To be frank, I don't think going forward he's the kind of forward we really need. How many teams need a 3rd marking target in a small forwards body? Granted he got 30 goals which is very good, but that's why I think that's around his max. Can't see him getting 40+ given he lacks crumbing nous or any goal scoring instinct aside from lead up marking - which is useful now doubt, not knocking that- but it's just not a rounded skillset and at his size you wonder how sustainable it is.

Further, we have a couple of smaller forwards in the pipeline. Obviously the guys on the list, Durdin, Motlop, Moir for example, but in this yrs draft we've been linked with small forwards, then in next years draft we have Gresham in the academy and the yr after Walker - who likely won't walk right in as a mid and likely starts his career forward. So we can't clog up small forward spots.

He'll want a 3-4 yr contract on good salary (not premium, just good) and assurances of gametime, we can't really offer him any of that. If Moir comes on, Motlop comes on, then draftees in the next 2-3 yrs, Owies could very easily be on the outer and we'd be left hanging on to a 2-3 yrs of solid salary and a guy who thinks he should be playing best 22 every week but isn't.

Who cares what his size or shape is - he gets the job done!

He is not the problem - the problem is that Fantasia, Durdin and Mots are all presently sub standard....

Sure, if others overtake him on output, great - but at present he has earnt a spot.

 

[Y Goat]

Butters and Houston!!

Sign me up. Keen on Butters

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Sign me up. Keen on Butters

Probably prefer Butter to the Trac....

 

[xDQ82x]

Do you think the dozens of articles at the time of him signing are all made up?

What was the threshold for band 1 when he arrived?

If lots of media have been reporting the same thing for years, don’t you think that someone from the AFL or GWS could have leaked those figures?

Not that this would be any suprise the numbers reported on salaries are never accurate.

Remember saints were offering huge money for weitering. From memory $1.6m or something well when I spoke to people they said the number was no where near that.

 

[RPCB]

Probably prefer Butter to the Trac....

24 year old two time AA, with his best football in front of him? Completely agree with you.

 

[bradfisher14]

On top of all that, he is managed by TGI, and you don't want to piss them off.

Incredibly important point. Pissing them off could ruin our chances with Bontempelli and Coniglio once and for all.

 

[RoyalBlues]

What are the chances?

Class players
Smith 1%
Petracca 10%
Houston 80%
Pick 12 (GCS) 75%

Classified signings
Bartel 50%
McClure 0%
Caro -15%
Hutchy -5%
Cornes -18%

Coaching strategy picks
Simpson 25%
King 35%
Hickmott 10%

 

[HereComesJuddy]

What are the chances?

Class players
Smith 1%
Petracca 10%
Houston 80%
Pick 12 (GCS) 75%

Classified signings
Bartel 50%
McClure 0%
Caro -15%
Hutchy -5%
Cornes -18%

Coaching strategy picks
Simpson 25%
King 35%
Hickmott 10%

It’s Caro or bust imo

 

[Lukeblueboy]

What are the chances?

Class players
Smith 1%
Petracca 10%
Houston 80%
Pick 12 (GCS) 75%

Classified signings
Bartel 50%
McClure 0%
Caro -15%
Hutchy -5%
Cornes -18%

Coaching strategy picks
Simpson 25%
King 35%
Hickmott 10%

I wish smith was 80% rb.
Are we still trying to get him?

 

[RAPPA]

Who cares what his size or shape is - he gets the job done!

He is not the problem - the problem is that Fantasia, Durdin and Mots are all presently sub standard....

Sure, if others overtake him on output, great - but at present he has earnt a spot.

Yep. If any one of those three smalls had a great year then parting with Owies wouldn’t be so bad. But they were all meh and Voss left it too late to give Moir a run so whilst we can speculate on the promising signs from his limited exposure of a few quarters, it’s not enough yet to think he’ll be starting 22 come round 1 next year.

 

[RoyalBlues]

Not that I think he’s leaving, but if by any chance he was, then I’d forget about Houston and be all for butters imo
Exactly what we require in the middle

He’s good on the spread too.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Mrs Dirty still believes that Mick was a Collingfilth plant..........

I have said that all the way....

Plant of Doom...

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[TrueQldBlue]

Owies has also met with GC and WC.

I can’t believe we’re happy to offload him but keep the likes of Durdin. Makes no sense.

He must have done something to Voss that has really pissed him off otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all to off load the highest crumbing goal kicker we have.

Madness ?????????

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[mjonc43]

He must have done something to Voss that has really pissed him off otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all to off load the highest crumbing goal kicker we have.

Madness ?????????

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Owies isn't a crumbling forward, hence why he is dispensable.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Owies isn't a crumbling forward, hence why he is dispensable.

Close enough to be one

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[myblueroan]

Leave no Stone unsigned!

View attachment 2122084

If we take on another injury prone player I'll...I'll