Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[teddy-hopkins]

Yep, long contracts hurt the club. Tying up all that money in a game where injuries are so prevalent is foolish IMO.
Everyone is “worth this” or “that” when they are the flavor of the month. Clubs need more power to trade to justify the the long term contracts

Agree. Ridiculous risks involved in long contracts with concussion related retirements, ACLs, depression, etc. all so prevalent.

I hope we can get an extra 1st rnd pick and take ut to rhe draft.

Kozzie and Jackson were key players in the dees 2020 premiership in their first year.

No offence to Houston - he's a top class player and has 3 or 4 years left at his peak. But there are obviously kids in the draft Austin thinks are even better who have 10+ years left - and who fit our needs better.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Getting a different mix was a key, Williams got exposed on the spread, the mix of aging Gleeson & Mitchell wasn’t great when we didn’t get our hands on the ball.

Ratten added a defensive or 2 way element the other 3 didn’t have.

Hanna & Kouta on the wings gave us pace, skill and great aerial ability, Camporeale added pace and skill also.

The key was player input & buy in which Parkin allowed!

Fully agree with your take, and I’ve mentioned before that I see this year as similar to the 1995 preseason.

I’d just include Whitehead as adding pace and skill around the ball.

Also, we sorted out fitness issues with Rice and Pearce.

 

[BigFrizz36]

In 95 we identified that our midfield was too slow with the likes Williams, Gleeson, Mitchell in there, so gave more opportunity to others as we phased out a couple and started to split Diesels mins between mid/forward a little…..

As you say added a few smart cheap recruits, drafted a young skillful mid with pace, a few positional tweaks….

Parkin also allowed more input by leaders into game plan, strategies etc…..

Sounds eerily familiar!!

One of those that added some of the pace that you are talking about was added in the previous draft.

His name was Scott Camporeale.

 

[Soapy V]

All I will say is we can't make others trade but we are trying our best .

I would say it's more likely than not but I think trade stuff is very fickle.

All I can say is draft is the focus and all these trade targets (excluding Houston) are just noise.

It's always been about picks and role players. We are open to anything that may come our way whether it's a good player wanting to come to Victoria or a good player being squeezed out of a club. That has been the stance for months and nothing has changed

A lot of talk is some very handy players will be available via DFA

If we get some good picks, Campo twins and some cheap additions like Haynes and names like Ethan Phillips we are in a great position over the next few years to "top up" with FAs etc

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

What's that (speed)?

I couldn't even watch most games fully through into the second half of the season due to our slow plodding style, terrible transition and by some way having the slowest team in the league.

My worry is we've ****ed up and it's not fixable now.

I hope it was just injuries/continuity but it seemed we just got smashed by teams playing fast football for the whole second half of the year. Teams that are not even very good. Was heartbreaking.

I have no faith we will fix this glaring deficiency in any meaningful way and have wasted an era having a top 3 mid, top 3 kpd and two top 10 key forwards.

It's why we need to move Kennedy on, regardless of how loved he is, it's the first step to speeding up our best 22.
It's not a coincidence that Owies and Young aren't greyhounds either.

Most of our players that have trade value are young(future requirements), the older players on big money(which we need to trade on to create salary cap room) are of little trade value because they're in their career twilight zone.
The list is financially unbalanced, making it difficult to trade in quality free agents and other big fish.

 

[Soapy V]

What!?!
Owies hasn’t been offered a contract and most likely won’t be retained. Where have I heard that over the past 3 or so months?

Yep. and Owies Manager confirmed he hasn't been offered a deal.

Whether people rate Owies or not the club feels we have too many small forwards on one list. The move of Williams forward has forced this and unfortunately for Owies he is out of contract

 

[mrkyuss]

How come everyone wants to spend 900k on a player with average afl leg speed ? The fact that we are offering up three players , two of which feature in our best 18 and can’t get a single bite when players absolutely cooked like Darling are getting a lifeline tells you a bit about our bottom end . We don’t need another top liner on big money - much rather spend the money plugging gaps with 2x3 players for cheap . We need list depth - stil have close to the best top 6 in the game. .

 

[Soapy V]

It's why we need to move Kennedy on, regardless of how loved he is, it's the first step to speeding up our best 22.
It's not a coincidence that Owies and Young aren't greyhounds either.

Most of our players that have trade value are young(future requirements), the older players on big money(which we need to trade on to create salary cap room) are of little trade value because they're in their career twilight zone.
The list is financially unbalanced, making it difficult to trade in quality free agents and other big fish.

Agree. Not just financially but position wise. Cook & Austin are addressing exactly this.

Draftees over mature players (even on low wages) make a massive difference to our SC

I really like Kennedy & Owies. Kennedy i believe is underrated and should be a FT mid. I think he is better than Hewett as he is a little bit quicker and a better kick and mark. Plus he is more flexible. Owies is a very handy player but if most of Motlop Williams Fogarty Durdin Moir Docherty are fit he likely doesn't play

We need to make some changes to balance our list. It's tough, but it's reality of the system and what we are doing now will set us up for the next 5-10 years

 

[Soapy V]

Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

deal is interesting.

We enquired about him a few times. He said no but did that push Tigers to give him a big deal?

 

[Soapy V]

How come everyone wants to spend 900k on a player with average afl leg speed ? The fact that we are offering up three players , two of which feature in our best 18 and can’t get a single bite when players absolutely cooked like Darling are getting a lifeline tells you a bit about our bottom end . We don’t need another top liner on big money - much rather spend the money plugging gaps with 2x3 players for cheap . We need list depth - stil have close to the best top 6 in the game. .

The Darling comparison isn't fair. Darling is at the end and is very cheap. He is there because North need some mature back up help

Houston is 27 and has 3-4 years at a high level and will help us straight away. Many people on here are happy not to get him. His deal will also NOT stop us getting some role players via cheap trades or DFA.

I see both sides. I really like Houston and he will be a great addition BUT I am also happy if we take another Top 15 pick to the draft.

Whatever happens I can't see us losing on this

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Do you think Owies is bottom 4-6 currently on our list? If he is asking overs, then fair enough, otherwise look at other options

We bemoan the lack of depth, and or trading capital, yet allow players that clearly have some value to possibly walk away for free

There seems to be a weird Money-Ball vibe with the Owies situation.

A top 3 small forward for kicking goals this season.

60 goals in two seasons - yet nobody sees his value.

He doesn’t fit the small forward archetype somehow.

 

[Magruder]

How come everyone wants to spend 900k on a player with average afl leg speed ? The fact that we are offering up three players , two of which feature in our best 18 and can’t get a single bite when players absolutely cooked like Darling are getting a lifeline tells you a bit about our bottom end . We don’t need another top liner on big money - much rather spend the money plugging gaps with 2x3 players for cheap . We need list depth - stil have close to the best top 6 in the game. .

Disagree with your initial premise but concur with your conclusions

I think we may be starting to see the operation of a market for out of contract fringe players independent of trade / exchange parameters

If clubs are aware that the player in which they have interest won’t be offered a contract why engage in multilateral haggling over low end picks to “even out “ loads of trades?

Similarly delist the player you don’t want so the club that does can sign him.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Fully agree with your take, and I’ve mentioned before that I see this year as similar to the 1995 preseason.

I’d just include Whitehead as adding pace and skill around the ball.

Also, we sorted out fitness issues with Rice and Pearce.

Agree, the forward mix & system also changed from 3 talls- Kernahan, Spalding & Cook by adding a more mobile lead up option in Pearce, hard working defensive forward in Clape with rotations of crafty skillful resting mids in Brown & Williams.

We were also quicker & better from half back with the run & carry kicking abilities from Christou & Whitehead.

Rice added toughness & skill.

It’s amazing how much quicker you look with better ball retention which Hanna & Kouta allowed with their size & all round ability to win their 1vs1 battles both in the air and on the ground, both provided good defensive pressure as well.

Remembering at the end of 94 we shopped Hanna around for trade and their wasn’t much interest or a suitable deal on offer.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Just to back up Soapy’s take on DFAs becoming available across the league, I note the AFL.com report of Narkle (Port Adelaide) likely becoming available on the open market.

I’m not advocating him. Rather, making the point that a guy who played 13 of the last 14 games in a preliminary final side is being let go because he’s out of contract and list spots are tight. I am sure we will be able to address an area of need as more of these contractual type of players shake loose.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

One of those that added some of the pace that you are talking about was added in the previous draft.

His name was Scott Camporeale.

I did refer to him just not by name….

 

[Magruder]

There seems to be a weird Money-Ball vibe with the Owies situation.

A top 3 small forward for kicking goals this season.

60 goals in two seasons - yet nobody sees his value.

He doesn’t fit the small forward archetype somehow.

If he was six inches taller he’d be a superstar

Actually he’d probably be a point guard

 

[Soapy V]

There seems to be a weird Money-Ball vibe with the Owies situation.

A top 3 small forward for kicking goals this season.

60 goals in two seasons - yet nobody sees his value.

He doesn’t fit the small forward archetype somehow.

Clubs know he is available for bugger all and they will likely pick him up as DFA. There is no rush but I have no doubt Owies will be playing somehwere next year. It just won't be us

 

[Soapy V]

Just to back up Soapy’s take on DFAs becoming available across the league, I note the AFL.com report of Narkle (Port Adelaide) likely becoming available on the open market.

I’m not advocating him. Rather, making the point that a guy who played 13 of the last 14 games in a preliminary final side is being let go because he’s out of contract and list spots are tight. I am sure we will be able to address an area of need as more of these contractual type of players shake loose.

I think this being a Deep draft and with Tassie coming in, this years draft is seen as vital for many clubs future

 

[Soapy V]

I’m all for jettisoning Fantasia if we are in a “squeeze” absolute list clog IMO & given we did it to LOB we have clear precedent

So am I but Voss talked him into coming across and for 2 years. Just can't see it happening

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Agree. Ridiculous risks involved in long contracts with concussion related retirements, ACLs, depression, etc. all so prevalent.

I hope we can get an extra 1st rnd pick and take ut to rhe draft.

Kozzie and Jackson were key players in the dees 2020 premiership in their first year.

No offence to Houston - he's a top class player and has 3 or 4 years left at his peak. But there are obviously kids in the draft Austin thinks are even better who have 10+ years left - and who fit our needs better.

This is a defining trade/draft period for Austin.

Expectations are rightfully high & patience is wearing thin.

Could have had Houston & chose not to, rather have faith in the draft.

Hope he & his team are all over this draft!

 

[windows1]

I reckon we have an eye on TDK with all of this “timidness” in the current trade period

TDK is, or about to be, our most important player when it comes to turning and impacting a game.

We have two absolute game turners- Crippa and TDK

If all of this boredom during trade period means we have the cap space to keep TDK then I’m all for it

Jesus Christ…..Charlie doesn’t qualify as a game turner any more????

How quickly we forget.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Not sure that adding Ratten and Fraser Brown to the midfield added much more pace..
kouta to the wing was huge
Brad Pearce’s pace on the lead
Rice and Clape’ pressure/mongrel at half forward helped transform us

win the ball, use it well - the basics are easy.

Our ball use has been an issue for a long time, ditto our players not leading into space (and helping each other to create space).

 

[lopezz]

I said 2 1st round picks in relation to Houston and port, they would have asked for 12 + F1.

I've no idea how close they got to convincing those guys to leave their clubs, or how many back up options they went through. All I can tell from it is they see the same weaknesses as I do and are trying to fix them.

Outside of that Who are the big name chb or hff that have been traded or about to be traded? Hawks gave battle and barrass more cash then they could poke a stick at, can't recall anything else.

I never advocated for a high price chb or hff. Nor have i advocated for Houston.

I just don't see how we better our draft hand or bring in role players. Think we'll end with Haynes, pick 12 and the two Campo boys.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I did refer to him just not by name….

Pick 15. Very nice to pick someone like that up this year.

 

[Soapy V]

I never advocated for a high price chb or hff. Nor have i advocated for Houston.

I just don't see how we better our draft hand or bring in role players. Think we'll end with Haynes, pick 12 and the two Campo boys.

F1 and/or F2 for picks this year?
Names like Ethan Phillips (and there will be heaps of others) that we can pick up for nothing

It's very easy