Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVII

[T2B_]

Is what it is. It's all up to the club to pull itself out of this quagmire, let's see what we're made of.

 

[Jatz]

With Harry? No I don't. I hadn't heard anything and I certainly wouldn't be speculating

All I know is over the past few weeks is the "noise" around the club has risen dramatically. It was bad end of last year and it was dealt with but seems to have arisen again

I am not internal but there are to many comments to ignore. Just seems a very unhappy and disjointed place at the moment which if true is extremely sad and disappointing

We desperately need a win

Winning feels like it would only paper over the cracks.

These issues feel like they're running much deeper - I'm not sure how they get resolved without people moving on now. If it was a problem at the end of last year and has already come up again, we're in a really bad spot.

 

[Soapy V]

So what in your honest opinion (noting it will be speculation that you will not be held to) are the issues at the club?

My personal opinion is we still haven't addressed a major cultural issue that has clouded the club for nearly 30 years. It's not one thing. It's the sum of so many different parts

I was excited and confident of change when Cook was appointed. I really thought he would fix this and he still might? (I hope).

What ever people believe, good clubs don't fall apart as quickly as we have in the last 6-12 months. It's not a happy place

 

[Magruder]

Harry taking personal leave, which is supported by the club, is a sign of poor culture?

Poor culture is when someone doesn't feel able to ask for help.

I agree that this is actually a sign of the club becoming a modern and inclusive organisation.

The Carlton is ruthless toxic shit is so 1970s - the world has changed.

 

[Soapy V]

Winning feels like it would only paper over the cracks.

These issues feel like they're running much deeper - I'm not sure how they get resolved without people moving on now. If it was a problem at the end of last year and has already come up again, we're in a really bad spot.

100% agree but just feels like club needs a circuit breaker to cool things down

 

[Rustica]

My personal opinion is we still haven't addressed a major cultural issue that has clouded the club for nearly 30 years. It's not one thing. It's the sum of so many different parts

I was excited and confident of change when Cook was appointed. I really thought he would fix this and he still might? (I hope).

What ever people believe, good clubs don't fall apart as quickly as we have in the last 6-12 months. It's not a happy place

I think Cook quickly realised the club was too big for him as well

Remember him making that comment about us fans being too passionate

 

[marcmurphy3]

Sometimes I wonder how much winning is responsible for culture vs culture being responsible for winning.

Never ceases to amaze me how good sides apparently have amazing culture then as soon as they start losing their culture is garbage. I hazard a guess that not much changes internally from one scenario to the other.

Had we beaten Richmond like we do 9 times out of 10, their wouldn't be any questions on our culture but because we lost our culture is rotten to the core.

For me it's an all encompassing fluffy word thats easier to point to then working out the actual specifics of what's going right or wrong which is alot more useful then saying its "culture".

 

[LanceRomance]

You don't remember the US trip story that broke in late March last year?

? What happened?

 

[Arr0w]

Sometimes I wonder how much winning is responsible for culture vs culture being responsible for winning.

Never ceases to amaze me how good sides apparently have amazing culture then as soon as they start losing their culture is garbage. I hazard a guess that not much changes internally from one scenario to the other.

Had we beaten Richmond like we do 9 times out of 10, their wouldn't be any questions on our culture but because we lost our culture is rotten to the core.

For me it's an all encompassing fluffy word thats easier to point to then working out the actual specifics of what's going right or wrong which is alot more useful then saying its "culture".

Nailed it

 

[carlton_99]

? What happened?

Brisbane Lions deny rumours off-season US trip has caused player rift

The 2023 runners-up have started the AFL season with three straight losses, with reports emerging about locker-room disharmony related to an off-season trip to the US, which the club's co-captain and football boss are denying.

www.abc.net.au

Lions deny playing group split amid reports of fallout from USA off-season trip

‘You’ve got to come clean’: Fresh details after ‘wild antics’ from Lions’ US trip leaked

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Soapy V]

Sometimes I wonder how much winning is responsible for culture vs culture being responsible for winning.

Never ceases to amaze me how good sides apparently have amazing culture then as soon as they start losing their culture is garbage. I hazard a guess that not much changes internally from one scenario to the other.

Had we beaten Richmond like we do 9 times out of 10, their wouldn't be any questions on our culture but because we lost our culture is rotten to the core.

For me it's an all encompassing fluffy word thats easier to point to then working out the actual specifics of what's going right or wrong which is alot more useful then saying its "culture".

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more

How many elite sporting sides are successful with a bad culture? No club is perfect but culture is deep.

Beating Richmond wouldn't have changed anything for me. It's short term thinking and reactionary. The fact we lost just highlighted the issues.

 

[Broadside]

tomorrow is feeling like the most important game we've played in a while (not counting finals)

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Wonder what the rush was to sign Voss in 2026..

Stupidity

 

[Jatz]

Sometimes I wonder how much winning is responsible for culture vs culture being responsible for winning.

Never ceases to amaze me how good sides apparently have amazing culture then as soon as they start losing their culture is garbage. I hazard a guess that not much changes internally from one scenario to the other.

Had we beaten Richmond like we do 9 times out of 10, their wouldn't be any questions on our culture but because we lost our culture is rotten to the core.

For me it's an all encompassing fluffy word thats easier to point to then working out the actual specifics of what's going right or wrong which is alot more useful then saying its "culture".

You think beating Richmond means that Harry doesn't miss with personal reasons?

There's clearly more going on behind the scenes and I don't think a win over the wooden spooners would cover for that.

 

[Soapy V]

Poor culture is when someone doesn't feel able to ask for help.

I agree that this is actually a sign of the club becoming a modern and inclusive organisation.

The Carlton is ruthless toxic shit is so 1970s - the world has changed.

100% but there is also strong data that people needing help are drawn to a strong and happy collective for help (like a football club)

In many cases people needing some help are much better off staying involved in a positive environment around people they trust

 

[Lukeblueboy]

tomorrow is feeling like the most important game we've played in a while (not counting finals)

Yup, I’m really worried(for various reasons) if we drop Tommoz night

 

[myblueroan]

... do you even remember what happened during last year's off season?

Honestly. This forum has the retention of a goldfish.

Sorry, what was that?

Also, what rumour is Twiggley speaking of re Voss pulling rank? A good source or more facebook crap?

Also, is BluesFanatic2025 a massive troll?
What, 30 ish posts....? And you WalshistheGOAT - you're going to let this newly signed tripper run you out of your own home? ( joined in March this year!. How long have you been posting?)
EVeryone is losing the plot.

My advice is, pull back a bit.
Make plans b and c and lower expectations for awhile.
Mental health first.

The good thing about here is we are not alone. We really feel pain because we love our club.
Getting weekly joy from being supporters is a distant dream. Tough times.
But still..
we hope.

 

[Chemical]

Harry taking personal leave, which is supported by the club, is a sign of poor culture?

Something is wrong with the club. I think most of us can agree with that.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I thought the club had turned the corner on culture with Sayers and Brian Cook in charge. Play me like a fool Carlton

Yep - big failure re: Cook. We just can’t get the right people in the right places.
It’s disappointing, frustrating and bewildering.
More than ‘just drafting, trading, rebuilding or coaching’ - how many times can you ‘rebuild, reset or change’?.
It’s cultural and it’s on every line within the club walls.
Sits with the CEO and to a lesser extent the board that hires him!!

Let’s hope Wright is the right person as members and supporters I’ve been speaking too over the past month have now truly lost faith.

 

[Meddy43]

100% agree but just feels like club needs a circuit breaker to cool things down

Is it a matter of players undermining the coach? Or they just don’t buy into what he’s trying to do/he can’t articulate what he wants from them?
What would the solution be? Move on another head coach? Or do we need to move on the line coaches?
Or do we need to move on some players? I’d rather not do that

I don’t mean to direct all these questions at you Soap and expect you to have answers. These are just the questions I have in general I guess as I try to make sense of why things have turned sour yet again.

 

[carlton_99]

In many cases people needing some help are much better off staying involved in a positive environment around people they trust

And Harry was at training yesterday so clearly still involved with the club. But it's another level of expectation to assume he is going to be able to play a game at a high level.

 

[Arr0w]

Lot's of speculation and assumptions floating around

 

[RAPPA]

There’s a lot of conjecture and angst at the moment. Anything from the Elijah and Harry issues, to the question mark on TDK, to the weight of expectation of the Club progressing, to question marks about the capabilities of Voss and the assistants, to the Sayers debacle and the fallout, to injury management and to list management.

Something will bust / have to change.

Don’t think this will be a camp Curnow galvanizing of the group exercise.

 

[Soapy V]

And Harry was at training yesterday so clearly still involved with the club. But it's another level of expectation to assume he is going to be able to play a game at a high level.

I wasn't talking about Harry and I haven't assumed anything regarding him

 

[Gethelred]

100% but there is also strong data that people needing help are drawn to a strong and happy collective for help (like a football club)

In many cases people needing some help are much better off staying involved in a positive environment around people they trust

The problem I have with you're presenting as you're framing is that it has one solution; blow the whole thing up. Replace the lot of them. Everyone can get in the bin.

Don't affect the pretense that you don't have a position, Soapy. You're not just sharing what you know, you're participating in extrapolating that beyond what you know into what you think should be done.