Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVII

[DangerousD]

I am not a buyer of 'bad game plan' hypothesis and I also reject the notion that the ame plan tires playes out too much - the opposition has to be able to absorb the pressure that the titing game plan brings- and most of the absorption is Carlton's inability to convert opportunity...

Your whole post was good but I just can’t give Voss an out and can’t agree with the above.

In an 18 team comp you will have a list that’s the best and a list that’s the worst, it’s almost impossible to tell exactly but most punters might have a fair idea.

The coaching group is the same, some coaches will be bad, some ok and some great, this is a lot harder to assess but the coaching group still play a huge role in how the team sets up, plays and trains.

I liked your reference to the 5 set match in tennis which brought me back to our game style and our poor disposal efficiency, to me our game style produces interdict because it’s predominantly built around stoppages and congestion, where many opposition sides have a lot more possession based game plans, every week I watch us and see the opposition smash us with marking the ball.

These things have an effect on efficiency, where our goal scoring opportunities come from, the pressure which they are under when they come and player fatigue and as you mentioned with tennis the margins are small but lots of small margins in the negative add up

 

[SurreyBlue]

i'd prefer to lose against the Bulldogs and smash the filth the week after.

The players and the club have an opportunity to show their true colours tomorrow.
Harry or any one player isn’t the issue, but the way the players represent the jumper and themselves will be the key.
IMO, Tomorrow will highlight plenty about our clubs current predicament. I’m not confident but let’s see.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Missing a game for personnel reasons is fine, missing a game for personnel reasons a week after missing with illness makes me question the club not the player.

The club is flip flopping

Wut?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Do you think the culture is poor at the Cats with some of the rumours of a couple of their players?

JUH?

I could name situations at every club

That bridge must be very brittle

Of course we can find dirt for every club..

TB "finger" injury at the Cats another example.

It just seems though that we are one of the worst at handling/ dealing with these problems.

The Dogs with JUH and their injury list have still competed well in the first 2 rounds. We haven't.

Lions last year had a lot of issues, Pies had what many thought were major issues off field and with their list and won a flag 2 years later.

We have been a perpetual bottom 8 side since the rebuild apart from 2023 where our core group were at their peak. Last year made the 8 by a whisper.

We need to find a way to at the very least bring a competitive brand of football for 4 quarters regardless of the issues.. we are not a side full of kids or past their prime players.

They are not right between the ears and majority of that is on Voss. He had total buy in and had lost that...

 

[Benaly28]

If any player wants to leave the Carlton football club and by doing so improves us just show them where the door is.Had enough of this crap for the last 25 years.

 

[Soapy V]

The players and the club have an opportunity to show their true colours tomorrow.
Harry or any one player isn’t the issue, but the way the players represent the jumper and themselves will be the key.
IMO, Tomorrow will highlight plenty about our clubs current predicament. I’m not confident but let’s see.

I see a win as a chance to breath and start to build. It then needs to continue.

One win will not change anything for me and TBH I don't think the Bulldogs are that good either

 

[swuzzlebubble]

That the same Charlie who was trying to convince all and sundry he was good to go for round 1? Club held him back an extra week, I think it's incredibly unfair to suddenly pivot to "Voss overruled the medical department to get him in for R2" just because he played like arse.

Regardless, High Performance should have benchmarks. What was his CTL, ATL & TSB?

 

[Magruder]

i'd prefer to lose against the Bulldogs and smash the filth the week after.

can't we just win both?

 

[Juddrockz]

The players and the club have an opportunity to show their true colours tomorrow.
Harry or any one player isn’t the issue, but the way the players represent the jumper and themselves will be the key.
IMO, Tomorrow will highlight plenty about our clubs current predicament. I’m not confident but let’s see.

Like i said,if we're going to lose id prefer it to be against the Dogs than the filth. Although id love a win against both teams.
Id just hate for the team to come out guns blazing tomorrow to fold like a wet blanket the week after and get absolutely belted by the filth. I feel that would make things even worse.

 

[Soapy V]

Of course we can find dirt for every club..

TB "finger" injury at the Cats another example.

It just seems though that we are one of the worst at handling/ dealing with these problems.

The Dogs with JUH and their injury list have still competed well in the first 2 rounds. We haven't.

Lions last year had a lot of issues, Pies had what many thought were major issues off field and with their list and won a flag 2 years later.

We have been a perpetual bottom 8 side since the rebuild apart from 2023 where our core group were at their peak. Last year made the 8 by a whisper.

We need to find a way to at the very least bring a competitive brand of football for 4 quarters regardless of the issues.. we are not a side full of kids or past their prime players.

They are not right between the ears and majority of that is on Voss. He had total buy in and had lost that...

All clubs have issues. That is not culture

 

[Lukeblueboy]

I believe if we beat dogs tomorrow, we’ll get going and also beat the pies. A win to build belief and confidence will go a long way

 

[Gethelred]

Where have I said anything like this?

See, that's the thing with framing; you don't actually have to say what you want people to think. The way information is presented leads people to the conclusion you want them to reach.

Look, I don't want to start an argument with you. Just, you're not above a little
... dissimulation to ensure the story you're telling gets interpreted how you wish.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Regardless, High Performance should have benchmarks. What was his CTL, ATL & TSB?

How the **** would any of us know that? Silly question.

Charlie went from demanding selection in R1 but being conservatively left out, to being selected in R2 and playing pretty poorly but being supported publicly by the coach in all post-match interviews. The rumour poses that he's pissed that the club played him in R2 when he was underdone. The reality and the rumour do not match - at all. Unless he somehow succumbed to another injury between R1 and R2 and Voss told him to suck it up and play, there is no way he went from champing at the bit and primed to play, to underdone and playing under duress in the space of 6 days.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I see a win as a chance to breath and start to build. It then needs to continue.

One win will not change anything for me and TBH I don't think the Bulldogs are that good either

Totally. It starts tomorrow though.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Missing a game for personnel reasons is fine, missing a game for personnel reasons a week after missing with illness makes me question the club not the player.

The club is flip flopping

What does this matter - pretty obvious its the same 'illness' and the club were being respectful of his circumstances by obfuscating the real reason.

 

[Blueballs38]

What a horror summer. Something smells rotten in the club. It will all shake out eventually but for mine I’m think there is something not right in Smallsville.

The more I think about it the more I think Voss has to go. This touchy, feels approach with players just doesn’t work with this group.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

How the **** would any of us know that? Silly question.

I said/meant the club should have known.
Regardless of whether the player or coach wanted him to play they would have known how much workload he'd done

 

[Blue__Balls]

I mean the club should have known.
Regardless of whether the player or coach wanted him to play they would have known how much workload he'd done

Correct - and they conservatively held him back from R1 and only played him in R2, not sure where the discussion is going...

Again - the rumour is that Charlie is pissed at the club for playing him underdone in R2 because H was out, or at Voss for overruling the medical team and making him play. That doesn't track when a week and a half earlier he was busting a gut to prove to the club he was ready to go.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

That doesn't track when a week and a half earlier he was busting a gut to prove to the club he was ready to go.

Data doesn't lie

 

[Broadside]

Data doesn't lie

I think the bigger issue was how they managed Charlie in the second half of last season when he was clearly injured.

 

[CJMB]

Data doesn't lie

...but it can be misinterpreted or captured inaccurately...

 

[DangerousD]

Wut?

That the club isn’t being honest with the supporter base

 

[AndyLucimitis]

If any player wants to leave the Carlton football club and by doing so improves us just show them where the door is.Had enough of this crap for the last 25 years.

Agree - he's contracted still I believe so what would we get from the Cats for him. Have a reputation of being good to deal with but not so sure now with Andrew Mackie ??

 

[bigblueboy]

Do you think the culture is poor at the Cats with some of the rumours of a couple of their players?

JUH?

I could name situations at every club

That bridge must be very brittle

It’s utterly disgraceful how the Cats/AFL are dealing with a very serious issue.

 

[Soapy V]

It’s utterly disgraceful how the Cats/AFL are dealing with a very serious issue.

Really? It's a very serious issue that needs to go through proper process. Player has been stood down. Legally I am not sure they can do anymore at this stage

When it's all been dealt with in Legal system then the AFL needs to step up