Brisbane face another big loss

[Grimreepah]

What were the benefits of hanging on to some of your good players at the end of that years when they had real trade value and could have bought you some real value in some real good drafts? By that, I mean players that werent going to be around for the next rise up the ladder?

Team morale. I don't think it is good policy just to sell off all your senior players who have be loyal to you for a number of years. If they are past it then you don't play them, but if they can still contribute then they will help with the development of the younger players coming through.

 

[FuManchu]

Your kidding about the trades...seriously, how many trades are done during trade week? I'd say it's very arguable that the price of success has to be high and prolonged. Look at E'don, Adelaide & W'C...great examples of clubs who have been able to field very high quality teams for long periods without the high draft picks. There is no reason that Brisbane can't do the same if those high up do a good job.

Your club was in the unique position to offload some really good players at the end of 2004 to clubs needing one or two players to top up for a tilt themselves. When you have premiership players to offload that have 2 or 3 years left, you have a bit of a bargaining chip. The trade week is only poor because clubs ( mine included) are scared of giving anyone else a hand up. That is the pervading mentality, until someone comes along and says we got to spend a bit now to get a lot later

Lappin has never had a lean patch, unless your referring to injuries...which was really only last year, usually very sturdy and always elite.

I would have traded him at the end of 2004 and got a first round draft

 

[FuManchu]

Loyalty might be one reason. These guys who rewarded us deserved to play for the club they wanted to in my opinion. This may not be the case, but I like to think it had some role.

Football is business and Brisbane need a succesful team for it to be a succesful club. Your subsequent drop in memberships, profitability and crowds means that of all the AFL clubs, you need to be vigilent in trading and being at the top of the draft.

Losing a few good players might have some effect on morale, being an AFL financial basketcase ( which can happen in a matter of years to all clubs)with all the uncertainty that goes with that, is even worse.

 

[Grimreepah]

Your club was in the unique position to offload some really good players at the end of 2004 to clubs needing one or two players to top up for a tilt themselves. When you have premiership players to offload that have 2 or 3 years left, you have a bit of a bargaining chip. The trade week is only poor because clubs ( mine included) are scared of giving anyone else a hand up. That is the pervading mentality, until someone comes along and says we got to spend a bit now to get a lot later

It's easy to say in hindsight that we never had a chance to win in 2005, but at the time we were still playing for another premiership. We had a poor start with the retirement of Lynch and Brown being suspended, but we came good and at one stage late in the season we were 2nd favourites for the flag. Unfortunately we had a bad year with injuries, and then when Brown got OP it all fell to pieces.

 

[FuManchu]

It's easy to say in hindsight that we never had a chance to win in 2005, but at the time we were still playing for another premiership. We had a poor start with the retirement of Lynch and Brown being suspended, but we came good and at one stage late in the season we were 2nd favourites for the flag. Unfortunately we had a bad year with injuries, and then when Brown got OP it all fell to pieces.

The real judges within the club would have known that 2005 wasnt going to bring them to the level of 2004.

 

[Grimreepah]

The real judges within the club would have known that 2005 wasnt going to bring them to the level of 2004.

I think you overestimate the predictability of football.

 

[Helix]

I would have traded him at the end of 2004 and got a first round draft

Players would then know that playing for your club means getting moved on whenever it is convenient, and i think keeping the club together when the player wants to stay is important for the 40 odd players on the list.

 

[FuManchu]

I think you overestimate the predictability of football.

Matthews and Allen would know that the list was one year older, the focal point up forward was gone (one of them) Voss' knee was degenerative, Brown was starting to have structural issues with his legs, you had a few years without the cream of the drafts to pick from, and Leppa was past his best. The club would make assumptions.

 

[FuManchu]

Players would then know that playing for your club means getting moved on whenever it is convenient, and i think keeping the club together when the player wants to stay is important for the 40 odd players on the list.

The players already understand the mercenary nature of AFL football, the clubs are usually the worst of the two. The players would know that they are at the mercy of the clubs. Whats is the average shelf life of an AFL player 3 years or something?

 

[Grimreepah]

Matthews and Allen would know that the list was one year older, the focal point up forward was gone (one of them) Voss' knee was degenerative, Brown was starting to have structural issues with his legs, you had a few years without the cream of the drafts to pick from, and Leppa was past his best. The club would make assumptions.

You could probably make a similar argument for 2003 - one year older, Lynch too old, Voss' degenerative knee, losing Headland.

If you've got a shot at a premiership you go for it.

 

[Grimreepah]

The players already understand the mercenary nature of AFL football, the clubs are usually the worst of the two. The players would know that they are at the mercy of the clubs. Whats is the average shelf life of an AFL player 3 years or something?

You talk about players as if they are robots. We have buzz words like 'playing for each other' and 'tight unit' and 'working as a team' but all that goes out the window if you don't practice what you preach.

 

[FuManchu]

You could probably make a similar argument for 2003 - one year older, Lynch too old, Voss' degenerative knee, losing Headland.

If you've got a shot at a premiership you go for it.

The differences being that you had won in 2003 and could rightfully assume that 2004 would still be a realistic proposition, but with longer term consequences.

After 2004, you could begin to see that the year wasnt a replica of the previous 3 (2001 second half, 02, 03) where you had dominated the H&A series and that there were definite challengers building, that had used 2004 as a stepping stone, wheras brisbane had remained largely stagnant. West Coast had proven a number of times (over a few years)that they had your measure, they were who you had to compare yourselves to.

As you said, everything is good in hindsight, but after that final siren blew in 2004, Brisbane needed to prune savagely and start what they should have done the previous year. The game was up. No shame in it, but it was still up. Even if you had a good year the next year, it may have only been a 4th place.

 

[DapperDon]

"If it bleeds you can kill it"

Welcome back Bears, hope you enjoyed your free ride while it lasted.

 

[Helix]

"If it bleeds you can kill it"

Welcome back Bears, hope you enjoyed your free ride while it lasted.

What a stupid comment.

 

[FuManchu]

You talk about players as if they are robots. We have buzz words like 'playing for each other' and 'tight unit' and 'working as a team' but all that goes out the window if you don't practice what you preach.

Players do what they are told and players play for money first, if you think they dont, try and take it away from them. And as is often stated, you talk about player loyalty, what about club loyalty? Clubs are willing to trade most players if there is a nett benefit at the end of that trade, no 'working as a team' in any of that!!

They may enjoy the success of a winning club, but you take away the money and watch the discontent begin. If a player knew he was going to maintain his 200K or 300K + salary at another club or risk losing it, I'm sure his allegances would follow suit. As they have and quite often do.

 

[notting18]

The differences being that you had won in 2003 and could rightfully assume that 2004 would still be a realistic proposition, but with longer term consequences.

After 2004, you could begin to see that the year wasnt a replica of the previous 3 (2001 second half, 02, 03) where you had dominated the H&A series and that there were definite challengers building, that had used 2004 as a stepping stone, wheras brisbane had remained largely stagnant. West Coast had proven a number of times (over a few years)that they had your measure, they were who you had to compare yourselves to.

As you said, everything is good in hindsight, but after that final siren blew in 2004, Brisbane needed to prune savagely and start what they should have done the previous year. The game was up. No shame in it, but it was still up. Even if you had a good year the next year, it may have only been a 4th place.

Midway through 05 we were 2nd favourites for the flag IIRC.....so you can't just look back in hindisght and say we had no hope of winning the flag as before injuries hit, etc a lot of people thought we were still a good shot.

 

[notting18]

Players do what they are told and players play for money first, if you think they dont, try and take it away from them. And as is often stated, you talk about player loyalty, what about club loyalty? Clubs are willing to trade most players if there is a nett benefit at the end of that trade, no 'working as a team' in any of that!!

They may enjoy the success of a winning club, but you take away the money and watch the discontent begin. If a player knew he was going to maintain his 200K or 300K + salary at another club or risk losing it, I'm sure his allegances would follow suit. As they have and quite often do.

Still hurting that Brown and Power stayed at Brisbane for significantly less than the pies offered? - Brown has all but stated the pies offered him 1 million buks a year for 5 years, but is at brisbane for closer to 600k!

 

[FuManchu]

Midway through 05 we were 2nd favourites for the flag IIRC.....so you can't just look back in hindisght and say we had no hope of winning the flag as before injuries hit, etc a lot of people thought we were still a good shot.

Some are gesticulating about clubs out of the 8 still being a chance today. The true judges would know what was realsitic and what was reliant on a lot of luck. Matthews is no dreamer, he'd give it a crack, but he'd also know that the Brisbanes of 2002 and 2003 were far in advance of the Brisbane of mid 2005.

 

[FuManchu]

Still hurting that Brown and Power stayed at Brisbane for significantly less than the pies offered? - Brown has all but stated the pies offered him 1 million buks a year for 5 years, but is at brisbane for closer to 600k!

This is nothing to do with anything other than what was happening at Brisbane, if you want to degenerate this discussion to a lesser debate, dont bother replying to my posts or dont take offence if I ignore you.

 

[notting18]

This is nothing to do with anything other than what was happening at Brisbane, if you want to degenerate this discussion to a lesser debate, dont bother replying to my posts or dont take offence if I ignore you.

My point is very valid though to your discussion that Players are mercenaries. There are clear examples of players staying at clubs for a lot less than market value. If a club was to start selling out players once they are no longer 100% what the club requires, you would start to have the lack of team loyalty the we see in Soccer, etc.

Respect is a two way street and clubs would know that they have to respect their players or expect some disrespect coming back at them.

 

[Footy Rules Australia]

Re: Brisbane crowds are falling

Due to Lions sucking and QLD rugby teams doing well, it was easily forseen this drop. You must realize, people from Queensland are horribly fickle, for eg. Lions crowd avergae would be higher than the Bronco's if they didn't have the Queensland derby games. If a team plays poorly the people aka the bandwagon jump off. It's in the QLD psyche.

All the more reason to have a second Brisbane team in the AFL. It would be an easy 42,000 at the Gabba every time.

To make it a fairer comparision what would the Broncos average be minus the artificial derby games?

 

[Le KooK]

Re: Brisbane crowds are falling

How pathetic, describing 'derby' matches as 'artificial' - heaven forbid a club having a couple of geographically based rivalries.

One of the more desperate acts of code-salvation I've seen on these boards.

 

[Grimreepah]

Players do what they are told and players play for money first, if you think they dont, try and take it away from them. And as is often stated, you talk about player loyalty, what about club loyalty? Clubs are willing to trade most players if there is a nett benefit at the end of that trade, no 'working as a team' in any of that!!

They may enjoy the success of a winning club, but you take away the money and watch the discontent begin. If a player knew he was going to maintain his 200K or 300K + salary at another club or risk losing it, I'm sure his allegances would follow suit. As they have and quite often do.

You talk about it as if it is one or the other and seem to be implying everyone is a mercenary, which is fairly cynical. They play for money yes, but I think most players have a sense of loyalty as well, and some have a very strong sense of loyalty. And the players who have been around for 10 years, who are the guys you are suggesting we should have traded, are likely to have the strongest sense of loyalty.

You are looking at things from a ruthless, impassionate, bottom line point of view, but the fact is that a club tries to build a culture and the human element is an important component in how effectively a club can evolve.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Brisbane crowds are falling

Probably one of the more desperate acts of code-salvation I've seen on these boards.

If anyone is experienced enough to make that judgement, its you.

 

[SriLankanCat]

Re: Brisbane crowds are falling

The Lions are dropping but i wouldnt worry about that too much, i am sure the Lions hierarchy have a plan in place to attract members.