Play Nice Bye Bye Brad #3 [Locked: BS signs 2-year ext. Aug-2017, tied to NM until end 2020]

[GarnerSmash]

His major weakness is his shithouse tactical nouse. Strategically he is very good. That is why the side got two prelims and at one stage won 20 or so games out of 25. Then again there were times he backed his game plan and the results were good. But he seems very slow to adapt, too much rigidity/not enough flexibility in his approach. Thats a good thing when you are winning and going deep into finals, not good when things aren't working.

The other major weakness is the way the skills seem to be going backward over the last 3 seasons. In the first game of this year and the last one of 2015 skills have cost against the wc, in 2015 they may have cost us a flag. Definitely cost us a GF spot.

Obviously just missing a GF because of shithouse skills means you are doing other things right. But not improving that over the next two seasons is a backwards step by any measure. So that's got to improve this season. Do we even have a skills coach? We didn't last year according to the website.

His ingame stuff hurst at times but overall he is a good coach. I think with the kids we will see even less tactical flexibility because the 'teaching' mantra will be in full effect. And by teaching I mean "this is our structure, you need to learn it".

Skills, ****, where do you start. Handballing to feet, handballing to where blokes were, not where they are going, yada yada yada.

 

[Ry009]

Why any North supporter went to yesterday's game thinking we would win, is truly staggering to me.

I was hopeful but not expecting it, however the same old issues reared their ugly heads again. Players out of position early in the game, (senior players too) , the constant 9 iron chips into a pack with no real thought.

Our backline make up is out of whack with guys that are essentially midfielders. Doesn't help when our midfield goes invisible and the backline are 10 yards short.

Love LMac but he doesn't have the pace or disposal ability. Love Scooter, but he is not a true KPD. Love Lachie and his courage but the game as it is at the moment We really miss Wright in the team, and also shows how much we miss a Brady Rawlings type.

Swallow's in and under grunt work is still beneficial and Ziebell's clearance work is valuable, but they get nullified by the lack of creative, outside midfield work still lacking from the list.

I don't want us to go Melbourne and full blown blood every youngster, as getting belted every week does nothing for development (not that we are world beaters in that area either) but when the senior players are delivering nought over and over again, there needs to be accountability from someone other than the players at the club. Preuss will be great, but there was no rush to play him, our forward line even without Wood is still ok, we need to get youth and gametime in the middle and backline.

It's just not on the coach, it's the leadership group, the FD and the board for the matter that need to lift standards.

Yesterday seemed like the 'refresh' is just a half way job and that more of the same is inevitable.

Zero point refreshing the list if you're going to instill the same bad habits in the youth coming in.

 

[Wild Bill]

Nothing to with playing the kids. Stupid comment.

Plus it's hardly like back line had kids, in fact the opposite where "the kids" weren't picked despite earning selection.

It's his poor coaching, game plan and lack of tactical nous that's the issue.

WCE aren't that great IMO, we're certainly beatable today.

WCE are third fav to win the flag. They are a big chance to win it this year. Adding Mitchell was a great move.

 

[Horace]

I thought we had a chance going in going in and certainly don't think it "truly staggering" for any supporter thinking we could/would.

Accepting a loss at our home ground, against a nothing special Interstate visitor, before the game has even started is strangely defeatist to me. The squad we put our there was good enough to get the job done, but once again certain senior players and unimaginative coaching put paid to that idea.

You say defeatist, I say realist. But what if I am defeatist? I have no contact with anyone at the club let alone any of the players, so I doubt if me being a defeatist had or has any bearing on the outcome of this or any game. I went hopeful that my realistic attitude would prove to be wrong. It didn't but that doesn't mean that I walked away ready to trash so many at the club. Quite the contrary.

Instead I was delighted that the coach and the club, having ended the careers of 4 great players last year, chose to put their "money where their mouths are" and blooded 4 young boys for their first senior game. 4 first gamers. I don't think any other club did that in Round 1 so well done and in my opinion each of those boys showed a bit and more importantly will be so much better for having got a taste.

My realistic view of this year is that we will do well to win 6 to 8 games, because firstly we will see a lot of new faces and secondly, I don't think we are going to see all of our first choice or close to first choice players together at the one time this year. Jacobs looks very doubtful, while Wood and Garner look to be injury prone. Sammy Wright, such a critical part of our back line, especially now that the grand old flag flyer, Spud is no longer there, may also not come back from his ankle problems as we would like.

Am I alone in suggesting just 6 to 8 wins? Maybe here I am, but it is a view that so many so called experts have and perhaps we should take some notice of those who are paid to view the prospects of all clubs dispassionately.

If you are going to be realistic (or as you suggest defeatist) then you need to be dispassionate in assessing the mix of talent/experience on any list.

I go every week with high hopes, but also choose to be dispassionate when assessing where our list is at.

Back to Eagles. Yes they have been beatable on the road. But this was round 1, their coaching stuff will have worked on this and they also have Sammy Mitchell in their side. He has made an art form of carving us and others up in the midfield. They also beat us to win a spot in the GF in 2015 with essentially the same side. Last year they finished 6th on the ladder after the H&A rounds and then had the misfortune of meeting a very well recuperated Bulldogs, thanks to what we did in 2015. The Bulldogs went on to win the flag. the Eagles are a very good side and perhaps were missing only one really good player from their best 22, being Nic Natanui. I say no Cunners in our team offsets that. In my opinion they will figure late in September this year unless they suffer a bad injury run.

 

[Wild Bill]

You say defeatist, I say realist. But what if I am defeatist? I have no contact with anyone at the club let alone any of the players, so I doubt if me being a defeatist had or has any bearing on the outcome of this or any game. I went hopeful that my realistic attitude would prove to be wrong. It didn't but that doesn't mean that I walked away ready to trash so many at the club. Quite the contrary.

Instead I was delighted that the coach and the club, having ended the careers of 4 great players last year, chose to put their "money where their mouths are" and blooded 4 young boys for their first senior game. 4 first gamers. I don't think any other club did that in Round 1 so well done and in my opinion each of those boys showed a bit and more importantly will be so much better for having got a taste.

My realistic view of this year is that we will do well to win 6 to 8 games, because firstly we will see a lot of new faces and secondly, I don't think we are going to see all of our first choice or close to first choice players together at the one time this year. Jacobs looks very doubtful, while Wood and Garner look to be injury prone. Sammy Wright, such a critical part of our back line, especially now that the grand old flag flyer, Spud is no longer there, may also not come back from his ankle problems as we would like.

Am I alone in suggesting just 6 to 8 wins? Maybe here I am, but it is a view that so many so called experts have and perhaps we should take some notice of those who are paid to view the prospects of all clubs dispassionately.

If you are going to be realistic (or as you suggest defeatist) then you need to be dispassionate in assessing the mix of talent/experience on any list.

I go every week with high hopes, but also choose to be dispassionate when assessing where our list is at.

Back to Eagles. Yes they have been beatable on the road. But this was round 1, their coaching stuff will have worked on this and they also have Sammy Mitchell in their side. He has made an art form of carving us and others up in the midfield. They also beat us to win a spot in the GF in 2015 with essentially the same side. Last year they finished 6th on the ladder after the H&A rounds and then had the misfortune of meeting a very well recuperated Bulldogs, thanks to what we did in 2015. The Bulldogs went on to win the flag. the Eagles are a very good side and perhaps were missing only one really good player from their best 22, being Nic Natanui. I say no Cunners in our team offsets that. In my opinion they will figure late in September this year unless they suffer a bad injury run.

I thought 6-8 at the start of the season. I want Scott to play all the kids and see who will be able to make it going forward. End of the day we need some top end talent. Dogs finished 10th in 2011 and then went 15th, 15th, 14th. We need to do the same.

2012 - pick 5 Stinger Pick 6 Macrea
2013 - pick 4 the Bont
2014 - pick 1 2012 - Tom Boyd

They also got some gold later in the draft:
2012 - Hunter pick 49
2014 - Daniel pick 46

Not sure if Scott can survive a run like this but for us to win a flag we need to drastically improve our list. We may also get very lucky with Ahern who was a top 10 pick.

I would push Hanson out and bring in Durdin or EVW this week. I think Hanson only played due to the Eagles tall forward line but he needs to be pushed out along with Gibson and by years end Swallow. We lack foot speed and class by foot.

With the Cats, GWS and Dogs in the next 3 weeks our season could be over very quickly. Not sure that is such a bad thing.

 

[Saintly35]

WCE are third fav to win the flag. They are a big chance to win it this year. Adding Mitchell was a great move.

Who also do not play well in Melbourne, and rarely venture to Etihad.

It's not the fact we lost to WC which is the issue, as yes they are a good (not great) team - it's the manner in how we lost, and what we did about changing that outcome which is of most concern even at this very early stage.

 

[Zondor]

Okey Doke. Over his time here Scott has shown an ability to learn and grow in the role, and he doesn't strike me as the sort to get to the point where he puts the cue in the rack and considers himself a finished product.

Are you serious? How has he "learnt" and how has he "grown" to become the Premiership Coach you think he is? To me he still comes across as stubborn and loathe to change. Still Inflexible and unimaginative on match day. I'm not sure how he is going to guide our side to a Premiership with these qualities. :stern look

He took a list that needed serious rebuilding after '09 to about as far as it could go, having only compromised drafts and late 1st-round picks to work with. After 2013 he (along with the smart recruitment of NDS) fixed the giving up leads problem. After being completely overwhelmed in the 2014 prelim he went back and was within a quarter of winning one. Last year they had to deal with the problem of just not showing up every 4th or 5th week and, despite falling in a heap with injuries and a tough schedule, only lost one game where they were favourites. When you look at they way they progress year on year it's clear he sees and understands the same problems we do, and has a plan to fix them.

Now Rob. Sure there was improvement in the side from 2009 and yes we had 2 out of 4 Finals Series under his guidance were we played some exciting Footy and made Prelims but we have never finished in the top 4 after the H&A season in his 7 years. Not sure how that highlights qualities of a Premiership Winning Coach? :stern look

He's not perfect but he's a good coach. The players respect him and the old hands talk about him as a good teaching coach. If the list management cards fall his way he'll contend again. If it all turns to shit this season the group might quit on him and there's no coming back from that but there's a lot of people gleefully sharpening up the pitchforks after one loss to a likely top 4 side.

Yep he is not perfect. He has many flaws. Again I can't see how a coach with so many flaws in his coaching style can guide us to a Premiership. :stern look

Anyways thanks Rob. Hey I hope you're right. It's North Melbourne First and my Credibility Second. :stern look

 

[Wild Bill]

Who also do not play well in Melbourne, and rarely venture to Etihad.

It's not the fact we lost to WC which is the issue, as yes they are a good (not great) team - it's the manner in how we lost, and what we did about changing that outcome which is of most concern even at this very early stage.

Dogs beat then by 8 points last year in their only Etihad game - not terrible form. They also won 2 and lost 1 in 2015.

1.9 from LT and Waite really hurt us - some were sitters. The game should have been closer and by the end our kids were out on their feet going up and down on the same spot.

 

[czero]

Now Rob. Sure there was improvement in the side from 2009 and yes we had 2 out of 4 Finals Series under his guidance were we played some exciting Footy and made Prelims but we have never finished in the top 4 after the H&A season in his 7 years. Not sure how that highlights qualities of a Premiership Winning Coach?

List?

I uderstand here you are comming from, because I could easily replace list with 'poor development', 'poor training methods', 'overly complex structures', etc. etc.

I mean in particular I wonder about weather or not we have everly complex instructions and structures. I remember that one of the most common quips spoken about by players in the past was not understanding the words brad used. These kids who's lives have been footy since little need simpler stuff that fits with natural instinctual play that most of them have. I can only think that he is a super analytical type that drills down too much into the details, and I wonder if he is looking at the bigger picture. I wonder if part of the mental issues with kicking and panic play is due to a lack of ability for players to feel instinctual unless things are going well. Does the coach ask the players what feels better when he puts his mad designs into play, are they part of the feedback loop. They should be, especially with all the kids. I'm probably way off, but still I can't help but wonder sometimes if brad doesn't attempt to do too much with them.

 

[DesertRoo]

List?

I uderstand here you are comming from, because I could easily replace list with 'poor development', 'poor training methods', 'overly complex structures', etc. etc.

I mean in particular I wonder about weather or not we have everly complex instructions and structures. I remember that one of the most common quips spoken about by players in the past was not understanding the words brad used. These kids who's lives have been footy since little need simpler stuff that fits with natural instinctual play that most of them have. I can only think that he is a super analytical type that drills down too much into the details, and I wonder if he is looking at the bigger picture. I wonder if part of the mental issues with kicking and panic play is due to a lack of ability for players to feel instinctual unless things are going well. Does the coach ask the players what feels better when he puts his mad designs into play, are they part of the feedback loop. They should be, especially with all the kids. I'm probably way off, but still I can't help but wonder sometimes if brad doesn't attempt to do too much with them.

You can have the best game plan in the world. If the kids can't kick, you can't execute it. You're ducked.
If your ex captain can't kick, you can't enforce standards.. you're really ****ed.

we need a big clean out and that includes, Scotts' no standands.

 

[dus]

I'm certainly not Scotts biggest fan, but the tripe the boys dished up yesterday wasn't his doing. Waite, LT and Swallow killed off any hope we had in front of goal.

However at the end of the day the buck stops with him and I'd be surprised, baring a miracle, if he's our coach next year.

 

[generalleftfield]

From a coaching point of view a couple of things had me a bit concerned yesterday - 1. kick outs were predictable lotteries, 2. after starting the game really looking for forward targets with lowered eyes and mostly and hitting them we reverted to the old kick it long onto heads ploy, and 3. (not unconnected) our forwards kept jumping for the same balls.

Having said that, I don't actually blame any of the coaches for forwards and mids missing easy shots on goal, or backmen dropping marks they would take 99/100 times across their careers, or players handballing slowly at the feet of teammates under pressure or missing field kicking targets by metres. Not being in the inner sanctum, I can't be sure, but I doubt any of these things are drilled at training and given as final instructions to the team.

Maybe those things aren't drilled in to them but you can be damn sure they will all be selected next week and beyond!

 

[Wild Bill]

Now Rob. Sure there was improvement in the side from 2009 and yes we had 2 out of 4 Finals Series under his guidance were we played some exciting Footy and made Prelims but we have never finished in the top 4 after the H&A season in his 7 years. Not sure how that highlights qualities of a Premiership Winning Coach? :stern look

The Dogs showed you don't need to be top 6 to win a flag. Playing good football in Sept is key and at least Scott was able to get the side to do that - all without the top end talent most clubs have. Dogs have picks 1 & 4 from 2013 draft and 5 & 6 from the 2012 draft.

We haven't had a top 6 pick in 8 years.

 

[DesertRoo]

The Dogs showed you don't need to be top 6 to win a flag. Playing good football in Sept is key and at least Scott was able to get the side to do that - all without the top end talent most clubs have. Dogs have picks 1 & 4 from 2013 draft and 5 & 6 from the 2012 draft.

We haven't had a top 6 pick in 8 years.

The dogs were also a basket case, before picking up a new coach.

 

[Wild Bill]

The dogs were also a basket case, before picking up a new coach.

The timing was really good for Beveridge. Picks 1, 4, 5 & 6 heading into their 3rd and 4th year. Reminded me of 1993 - Carey, Archer , Schwass, Rock and Stevens all exploded in 1993 making Pagan look like a super coach - he ended up with the same amount of spoons as flags.

Timing can be everything in football!!

 

[Horizons_00]

Thing I really hate is he pulls out the "due to the 3rd of our list being different, will potentially make us vulnerable in sustaining effort across all quarters"
Ah what? we aren't expected to put in effort because we are a young list now? Absolutely gets my blood boiling

We get it brad. You have little to no faith in our youth or our list hence why you continue to play absolute plodders like Thomson and Hansen and never dropped under performing aged players in the past

I bet you anything, he will spew out the same line all year "oh but we played kids" "we have a lot of youth" every time we lose. Why would any young gun want to be traded to the club with this kind of attitude from the head coach

I seriously seen a completely different team in the JLT series when Brad wasn't coaching. Call it a coincidence, whatever, the fact of the matter is I feel like this new list wants a new voice

 

[DesertRoo]

The timing was really good for Beveridge. Picks 1, 4, 5 & 6 heading into their 3rd and 4th year. Reminded me of 1993 - Carey, Archer , Schwass, Rock and Stevens all exploded in 1993 making Pagan look like a super coach - he ended up with the same amount of spoons as flags.

Timing can be everything in football!!

I think you're under selling the ability of the coach.. If everything is timing and draft picks why hasn't Gold Coast exploded? Why hasn't GWS won a flag already?

 

[Wild Bill]

I think you're under selling the ability of the coach.. If everything is timing and draft picks why hasn't Gold Coast exploded? Why hasn't GWS won a flag already?

Or you might be over selling the ability of coach. You think Beveridge could win the 2017 flag with our list?

Gold Coast recruiting wasn't great and smashed by injuries & GWS was a kick away from a Grand Final in their 4th year!!

Without the cattle you could be the greatest coach of all time and you won't win a flag. I would 100% prefer to lose Pagan in the 90's than Carey. 1 player can be more important than the coach - let a lone a bunch of early draft picks.

 

[Wild Bill]

Thing I really hate is he pulls out the "due to the 3rd of our list being different, will potentially make us vulnerable in sustaining effort across all quarters"
Ah what? we aren't expected to put in effort because we are a young list now? Absolutely gets my blood boiling

We get it brad. You have little to no faith in our youth or our list hence why you continue to play absolute plodders like Thomson and Hansen and never dropped under performing aged players in the past

I bet you anything, he will spew out the same line all year "oh but we played kids" "we have a lot of youth" every time we lose. Why would any young gun want to be traded to the club with this kind of attitude from the head coach

I seriously seen a completely different team in the JLT series when Brad wasn't coaching. Call it a coincidence, whatever, the fact of the matter is I feel like this new list wants a new voice

Jesus - the JLT series?? Really?

Dogs were beaten by the lowly Dee's and Lions!!! Its a terrible way to judge a football team.

 

[Le Grille]

In a competition with salary cap/draft introducing talent in the draft is very important, since 2002 we have had the following top 5 picks

Pick 2 02 draft Wells
Pick 3 06 draft Hansen
Pick 5 09 draft Cunnington

and the following top 10 picks

Pick 9 02 draft Hamish McIntosh
Pick 8 03 draft David Trotter
Pick 9 08 draft Jack Ziebell
Pick 8 13 draft Luke McDonald

Jesse Smith was a FS at pick 42.

A total of 7 top ten picks in 15 years. Not to mention players we have recruited via trade and FA have all had some knock on them.

I'm not going to research it but I would say that is miles less than any other side in the league by a fair distance.

 

[Mav]

The timing was really good for Beveridge. Picks 1, 4, 5 & 6 heading into their 3rd and 4th year. Reminded me of 1993 - Carey, Archer , Schwass, Rock and Stevens all exploded in 1993 making Pagan look like a super coach - he ended up with the same amount of spoons as flags.

Timing can be everything in football!!

When Scotts took over he had picks 2, 3, 5, 7 ,9 and 9 playing.

 

[Horizons_00]

Jesus - the JLT series?? Really?

Dogs were beaten by the lowly Dee's and Lions!!! Its a terrible way to judge a football team.

All I was pointing out is a new voice is sometimes vastly different to the same coach, with the same message, same game plan, same bull****

 

[Zondor]

Thing I really hate is he pulls out the "due to the 3rd of our list being different, will potentially make us vulnerable in sustaining effort across all quarters"
Ah what? we aren't expected to put in effort because we are a young list now? Absolutely gets my blood boiling

We get it brad. You have little to no faith in our youth or our list hence why you continue to play absolute plodders like Thomson and Hansen and never dropped under performing aged players in the past

I bet you anything, he will spew out the same line all year "oh but we played kids" "we have a lot of youth" every time we lose. Why would any young gun want to be traded to the club with this kind of attitude from the head coach

I seriously seen a completely different team in the JLT series when Brad wasn't coaching. Call it a coincidence, whatever, the fact of the matter is I feel like this new list wants a new voice

Agreed. It is sickening that he would use Youth as an excuse. As I understand it Boomer, Dal, Petrie and in effect Wells were given the flick for their perceived lack of defensive pressure. So now Scotts has got a new excuse for his shit coaching. Yep they don't call him BS for nothing. :stern look

 

[DesertRoo]

Or you might be over selling the ability of coach. You think Beveridge could win the 2017 flag with our list?

Gold Coast recruiting wasn't great and smashed by injuries & GWS was a kick away from a Grand Final in their 4th year!!

Without the cattle you could be the greatest coach of all time and you won't win a flag. I would 100% prefer to lose Pagan in the 90's than Carey. 1 player can be more important than the coach - let a lone a bunch of early draft picks.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. If he can't develop the team in seven years, never going to happen.

A good coach would look at the players he has at his disposal and work to their strengths and limit their weaknesses.

What's our gameplan?

 

[domiroo]

Yes true but you have to be in the 8 to win a flag and that won't be the case with this team and coach .

The Dogs showed you don't need to be top 6 to win a flag. Playing good football in Sept is key and at least Scott was able to get the side to do that - all without the top end talent most clubs have. Dogs have picks 1 & 4 from 2013 draft and 5 & 6 from the 2012 draft.

We haven't had a top 6 pick in 8 years.

Yes