Cameron Wood is a Pie

[WE Are Geelong]

Geelong won the premiership because they were the best team ALL AROUND THE GROUNd. Brad Ottens did not win you the premiership, The only reason you beat us is because you were up against Bryan+Richards.

I think you are overestimating the value of ruckman, again look at the Collingwood game. Although Ottens dominated, look at the inspired of efforts of Coreys smother and Abletts final goal, this is what wins you a premiership, not just a built tall bloke.

Mate thats your opinion and you are entitled to it for sure. I just look at the premiers for the past decade and look at their ruck duos..and I see something different to you. Hardly a coincidence and I just think it speaks for itself really.

 

[Subprime]

WAG - We should make you guys an offer. I hope your people talk to our people before time is called tomorrow. Night all.

 

[FevJunior]

Euphoria for a ruckman!

I've heard there was
A secret chord
That David played, and
It pleased the Lord
But you don't really care
For music, do you?
It goes like this:
The fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king
Composing Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

could've got Selwood, Rance, Vezpremi or even McEvoy with that pick

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Summation...you dont understand what it takes to win a flag.

So, your team wins the flag and suddenly you're the expert on what it takes to win a flag? Spare me. If this thread shows anything, it's that you've got no fricking idea at all.

 

[out of order]

Pelchen baulks at pick 12 being too high for Thornton an established senior player with plenty of footy left...yet pick 14 for an unestablished young ruckman is shrewd?

So in other words Pelchen is an idiot you are saying?

Wood is potentially something...like forwards ruckman can go either way. Wood is not a bankable commodity at all at the moment...Thornton certainly is but pick 12 was too high. I would have offered a second round pick and nothing more...well done Lions...shrewd trading with Leuenberger on your list. More than likely Pies dudded again.

what a u smoking thornton is a dud mate

 

[Aristotel]

unbelievable !!

Does that fact that Brisbane rucks have struggled this year - and yet they are still prepared to trade Wood mean anything to Collingwood ???

hello !!

Pick 14 ?? !!

I bet Brisbane wouldn't be able to wipe the smirks off their faces

Go and have a look at some of the recent pick #14's....

Fergus Watts..Angus Monfries..Ashley Watson..Daniel Bell..Travis Gaspar..Luke Penny..Grant Birchall.

Although history gives no indication of what this years' #14 will be like, we can see that there is also no guarentees at 14...Birchall from Hawthorn is probably the best of that bunch.

Well done Pies....

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Josh Fraser may be able to play a ultility Adam Goodes role involving minimal ruck work. We were 1 Ruckman & 1 midfielder off a flag. I think we could have addressed both areas with 1 pick.

We may well have the midfielder on our books already, if Stanley, Cook, Dick and Wellingham continue to develop, We definitely didnt have a ruckman, though.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

could've got Selwood, Rance, Vezpremi or even McEvoy with that pick

Would prefer Cameron Wood, thanks. KPPs we have already, see NAB Draft 2006.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

So, your team wins the flag and suddenly you're the expert on what it takes to win a flag? Spare me. If this thread shows anything, it's that you've got no fricking idea at all.

All the premiers of the last decade have had at least 2 strong experienced Big ruckmen. If you perceive a 20yo Wood and Fraser in that light its clear you are the one who is deeply disturbed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Geelong won the premiership because they were the best team ALL AROUND THE GROUNd. Brad Ottens did not win you the premiership, The only reason you beat us is because you were up against Bryan+Richards.

I think you are overestimating the value of ruckman, again look at the Collingwood game. Although Ottens dominated, look at the inspired of efforts of Coreys smother and Abletts final goal, this is what wins you a premiership, not just a built tall bloke.

Collingwood were smashed in the ruck yet we lost by five points. A half competitve effort in the ruck and we'd be premiers right now. Fraser and Wood are better than Richards and Bryan. All we need to do is draft another young ruck and develop him properly, and our list has all the tools it needs, with the exception perhaps of another midfielder.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

All the premiers of the last decade have had at least 2 strong experienced Big ruckmen. If you perceive a 20yo Wood and Fraser in that light its clear you are the one who is deeply disturbed.

You can't keep repeating points that have already been addressed and pretend that you're actually debating.

I'll give you one thing: you're a machine -- a machine powered by your own stupidity, which no doubt means you'll outlast us all.

This thread is a tribute to your stamina, but not the worth of your argument.

 

[Aristotel]

I just watched the Cameron Wood highlights on the CFC web-site.

He's a big boy!....204cm I think.

 

[Mark W]

In summation mate Fraser and Wood wont take you to a flag and you are still one talented ruckman short on your list. You got to love the pie supporters talk this one up though. I agree Wood is a good talent...but thats not what wins flags these days. You need size and strength right now if you think your premiership window has opened. He is too young for your flag dreams for at least another 2-3 years.

Well what makes you think our window has opened? Two points here. Firstly, your core group of player have to have 50 -70 games under their belts before they can play good consistent sustainable. This does not apply to most of Cloke, Shaw, Rusling, Reid, Clark, Goldsack, O'Brien, Thomas and Pendlebury etc for a few years yet. Secondly, historically a team needs lots of finals experience before they can crack the big one. Port in 2004 is a classical example, Geelong in 2004 and 5, Essendon had to endure 98 and 99 before cracking it for the big one.....Now our kids have only enjoyed one finals campaign. Only Thomas and Rusling played finals footy in 2006.....

Have a look at the tandem ruckmen who have played in the premiership sides particularly of the last decade. Wood and Fraser arent going to give you that two pronged strong ruck duo you need. It will be 5 years before Wood gets that strength he needs to actually dominate games...by that time Fraser will be gone. If you are thinking about winning a flag in the next three years...Hudson was a short term fix admittedly...but a better one. He has the size and wear with all to match it with the big boys. He went for a second round pick...hmmm shame about that one. Smart pick doggies.

No Hudson would be stupid, by the time the kids have the requisite experience, he'd be on his last legs. You want us to take a short term option and hope we can pinch a flag with a bunch of kids.... Sure Essendon did it in 1993, but that was one out of the box. We've got a young talented ruckman who will grow in the same cohort with our other kids...great move! I think your 5 year time frame on Wood is also way out. Ruckam take time but you really think he is going to need 8 year to come good? Sorry that's laughable! He has already had 3 years in the system. Another 3 years and he should be a 23 year old with 60-70 games under his belt and a competitive AFL ruckman. Josh Fraser will be 27 by then!

Brad was drafted at 24...had already been All Australian and had a reputation for being a very damaging athletic forward. See the chase down by Ottens in the GF mate or were you still teary eyed? He had also played alot of footy at 24.

And Josh Fraser isn't an athletic forward? Who kicked 3 goals in the 2002 Preliminary Final? Josh Fraser. Who kicked 3 goals, in the wet, in the 2002 Grand Final? Josh Fraser. Has Ottens kicked 3 goals in a grand or preliminary final....nup did not think so

You need at least 2 if not 3 talented strong big men who have the right mixture of size, strength, experience and rucking ability. You need at least one ruckman you can play forward and take contested marks to create difficult match ups and free a guy like Rocca from getting his baby arse whipped every time by talented defenders.

Again just becuase you are ignorant of Fraser's performances in big games as a forward, does not mean that they don't exist! Go have a look at the two biggest games of 2002 and then tell me that Fraser can't turn it on up forward.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

You can't keep repeating points that have already been addressed and pretend that you're actually debating.

I'll give you one thing: you're a machine -- a machine powered by your own stupidity, which no doubt means you'll outlast us all.

This thread is a tribute to your stamina, but not the worth of your argument.

If something is true it doesnt require stamina...it just is. You're just another typical run of the mill overly emotional delusional collingwood supporter. Its why collingwood supporters have this reputation...they dont care if what they say is true or not...it just is because they say so or they want it to be so...great argument.

Recent history being the last decade or more supports my claim clearly 100% without any deviations. There hasnt been 1 premiership side that has relied on a rookie ruckman to take them to a flag especially when your premier ruckman is more a follower than a true ruckman.

I am still trying to work out the basis of your effluence and the overall pie argument on a 20yo kid who has barely played 10 games yet...flag favourites I suspect?

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Well what makes you think our window has opened? Two points here. Firstly, your core group of player have to have 50 -70 games under their belts before they can play good consistent sustainable. This does not apply to most of Cloke, Shaw, Rusling, Reid, Clark, Goldsack, O'Brien, Thomas and Pendlebury etc for a few years yet. Secondly, historically a team needs lots of finals experience before they can crack the big one. Port in 2004 is a classical example, Geelong in 2004 and 5, Essendon had to endure 98 and 99 before cracking it for the big one.....Now our kids have only enjoyed one finals campaign. Only Thomas and Rusling played finals footy in 2006.....




No Hudson would be stupid, by the time the kids have the requisite experience, he'd be on his last legs. You want us to take a short term option and hope we can pinch a flag with a bunch of kids.... Sure Essendon did it in 1993, but that was one out of the box. We've got a young talented ruckman who will grow in the same cohort with our other kids...great move! I think your 5 year time frame on Wood is also way out. Ruckam take time but you really think he is going to need 8 year to come good? Sorry that's laughable! He has already had 3 years in the system. Another 3 years and he should be a 23 year old with 60-70 games under his belt and a competitive AFL ruckman. Josh Fraser will be 27 by then!



And Josh Fraser isn't an athletic forward? Who kicked 3 goals in the 2002 Preliminary Final? Josh Fraser. Who kicked 3 goals, in the wet, in the 2002 Grand Final? Josh Fraser. Has Ottens kicked 3 goals in a grand or preliminary final....nup did not think so



Again just becuase you are ignorant of Fraser's performances in big games as a forward, does not mean that they don't exist! Go have a look at the two biggest games of 2002 and then tell me that Fraser can't turn it on up forward.

You're delusional. Simple.

Fact...Fraser lost you the 2002 and 2003 flag. Fraser wasnt available 2007 finals. Not his fault but ruckmen are huge these days and he is finding it increasingly harder to compete at that level.

Fact...Ottens as our premier ruckman won us the flag in 2007. There were no shortcuts we had to give up 2 first round picks and work our arses off to get him.

By the time Wood develops, Fraser wont be the same player. Being a smaller ruckman in todays game he could already be on the slide because it is very demanding on a guy with his body shape. Blake is 22 and more developed than Wood and I still think he is 2-3 years away from his peak. Only the absolute elite ruckman peak sooner...Wood is not an elite ruckman or the Lions wouldnt have let him go. They are just too hard to find.

I have said all along Wood is a good pick up. I think he will make a good support act at Collingwood for a decade. The simple reality is Wood and Fraser wont take you to a flag...pie supporters are chatting on like they will and I disagree. Simple again.

Again you dont get the point about Fraser as a forward. He is handy...but you need a guy who can take the pressure of Rocca and take a contested mark. All your forwards are otherwise leading forwards...so is Fraser. You need a guy who can stand closer to the goal square and effect goal scoring spillages. I mean you talk to me about ignorance but seriously you just dont get it mate.

 

[MarkT]

Recent history being the last decade or more supports my claim clearly 100% without any deviations.

No it doesn’t. Essendon in 2000, who dominated that season and final, did not have 2 dominant ruckman they had one ageing running ruckman in Barnes. North won flags with 1 average scrubber and a CHF. The only 2 clubs that really had 2 quality ricks were Brisbane and Port. Geelong had a bloke they dropped play all year and King who they didn’t play all year because they preferred a ruckman that skinny and average. Now they want King to retire. As it turns out the choice was academic anyway. Ottens was actually recruited to solve a forward deficiency.

IMO the ruck is important and that is why I have been carrying on about Collingwood’s rucks for years. Lots of ingredients are required though. The reason that the ruck was very important to Collingwood in the past is that many of the other ingredients have been in place and IMO we are near that stage again.

 

[Bloben]

If something is true it doesnt require stamina...it just is. You're just another typical run of the mill overly emotional delusional collingwood supporter. Its why collingwood supporters have this reputation...they dont care if what they say is true or not...it just is because they say so or they want it to be so...great argument.

Recent history being the last decade or more supports my claim clearly 100% without any deviations. There hasnt been 1 premiership side who has relied on a rookie ruckman to take them to a flag especially when your premier ruckman is more a follower than a true ruckman.

I am still trying to work out the basis of your effluence and the overall pie argument on a 20yo kid who has barely played 10 games yet...flag favourites I suspect?

I haven't gotten involved here previously however the area where most opposition supporters fall down in when trying to claim superiour intelligence is stereotyping supporters. Please don't as you will look ignorant.

This is a stupid argument. Try and get off your premiership dias for a minute and try and put yourself in our shoes (waiting for a funny joke to respond to this). We had a massive problem with our rucks evidenced within the prelim against you guys. Therefore our number one priority was to fix this problem, we did this with our number one pick by getting the best available young ruckman. We could have gone after Hudson or King however these would only be a short term fix, by getting Wood we are doing our best to ensure our ruck division long term. I am confident we will also draft an 18 year old that we can focus on developing.

And as for your argument that we would never be able to win a premiership with Wood and Fraser, do you remember only beating us by 5 points with Bryan and Richards??? Imagine how we would have gone with Fraser and Wood!

 

[Mark W]

You're delusional. Simple.

And you lack the wit to read and consider arguments contrary to your own point of view. I pointed out your mistaken view on our premiership window whoosh did not pentrate your noggin!

Fact...Fraser lost you the 2002 and 2003 flag. Fraser wasnt available 2007 finals. Not his fault but ruckmen are huge these days and he is finding it increasingly harder to compete at that level.

This is overly simplistic and completely at odds with your own argument. You were the one banging on about the need for TWO ruckmen to win a flag. So tell me mate who was our 2nd ruckman in those two games? In 2002 It was the truly awful Stunning Steve McKee. McKee spent most of the game in the ruck, where he was thrashed, Josh most of it up forward. I think 3 goals in a GF for a resting ruckman is bloody good! In 2003 Josh played ruck and was monstered by Keating. He was the sole ruckman! So you tell me pal, do you need TWO ruckman or NOT? If you are sticking to your two ruckman argument you are contradicting yoursefl, You cant possible blame the SOLO ruckman for the loss if your argument is that you need TWO! We only had ONE (decent one) in both of those GFs. And if you want to tell me that Steve McKee did better in 2002 then Fraser, then I'll really have a laugh! It seems bizarre to blame the 1 decent ruckman that we had. If your mind is simplistic enough to want to attach blame for a GF loss, then try Malthouse or the Collingwood football/recruiting department. The blokes who refused to provide Fraser with any decent rucking support!

Fact...Ottens as our premier ruckman won us the flag in 2007.

Overly simplistic nonsense again!! For mine Geelong's best feature is your wonderful defence. Ottens had a great finals series...mind you he owed you, his previous 2 seasons were not crash hot

By the time Wood develops, Fraser wont be the same player.

Now I've been through that and unless your ridiculous assertion that Wood will take a world record 8 years before he becomes a good AFL ruckman is correct you are clearly WRONG!

 

[ChipDouglas]

You're delusional. Simple.

Fact...Fraser lost you the 2002 and 2003 flag. Fraser wasnt available 2007 finals. Not his fault but ruckmen are huge these days and he is finding it increasingly harder to compete at that level.

Fact...Ottens as our premier ruckman won us the flag in 2007. There were no shortcuts we had to give up 2 first round picks and work our arses off to get him.

By the time Wood develops, Fraser wont be the same player. Being a smaller ruckman in todays game he could already be on the slide because it is very demanding on a guy with his body shape. Blake is 22 and more developed than Wood and I still think he is 2-3 years away from his peak. Only the absolute elite ruckman peak sooner...Wood is not an elite ruckman or the Lions wouldnt have let him go. They are just too hard to find.

I have said all along Wood is a good pick up. I think he will make a good support act at Collingwood for a decade. The simple reality is Wood and Fraser wont take you to a flag...pie supporters are chatting on like they will and I disagree. Simple again.

Again you dont get the point about Fraser as a forward. He is handy...but you need a guy who can take the pressure of Rocca and take a contested mark. All your forwards are otherwise leading forwards...so is Fraser. You need a guy who can stand closer to the goal square and effect goal scoring spillages. I mean you talk to me about ignorance but seriously you just dont get it mate.

Might be time to run up the white flag WAG, you have been owned. A few less beers and more rational thought required if you hope to get some credibility back. And Collingwood lack forwards!!! I haven't laughed that hard in ages, at you, not with you, seriously get a clue or be consigned to the waste basket of stupidity.

 

[MarkT]

For the record Fraser did not ruck in 2002. Steve McKee was the main ruckman and Rocca was the relief. In the 2003 GF Fraser rucked his heart out albeit without any actual ruck impact at all and his backup was a teenage Tex. Fraser would have been about 21 in 2003.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

I haven't gotten involved here previously however the area where most opposition supporters fall down in when trying to claim superiour intelligence is stereotyping supporters. Please don't as you will look ignorant.

This is a stupid argument. Try and get off your premiership dias for a minute and try and put yourself in our shoes (waiting for a funny joke to respond to this). We had a massive problem with our rucks evidenced within the prelim against you guys. Therefore our number one priority was to fix this problem, we did this with our number one pick by getting the best available young ruckman. We could have gone after Hudson or King however these would only be a short term fix, by getting Wood we are doing our best to ensure our ruck division long term. I am confident we will also draft an 18 year old that we can focus on developing.

And as for your argument that we would never be able to win a premiership with Wood and Fraser, do you remember only beating us by 5 points with Bryan and Richards??? Imagine how we would have gone with Fraser and Wood!

Funny how I have been copping all the abuse here and not responding to it and yet you guys are the victims...gee so sorry. It does sound awfully Collingwood though for you to suggest such a thing ...so I will do my best to try not stereotype you mate ok?

Oh and this has nothing to do with Geelong winning the flag either. Its just my opinion...funny about that.

My point is simply this...at some point you need to get an elite ruckman to win a flag. Fraser was drafted to be and it didnt work out. Not through a lack of him trying he has a great attitude. The longer you wait the riskier it becomes for your younger guys to realise their dream. In other words I can see it costing you a flag.

There are no shortcuts. Yes draft a solid 18yo ruckman for depth this year too. Yes wood will be a very good ruckman and yes you needed to draft him.

Its incredible how emotional and reactive you have all been about me saying you still need one more premier ruckman to get the job done and there wont be any shortcuts to drafting that quality ready made ruckman.

Its incredible how you can kid yourself to the contrary too for so long.

Oh and if we played you the following week again in the GF we would have beaten you by over 40 points...that includes Wood and Fraser. We were coming off 3 weeks of non competitive footy and needed the hit out...thanks for the hit out...

 

[Palmer Stoat]

If something is true it doesnt require stamina...it just is. You're just another typical run of the mill overly emotional delusional collingwood supporter. Its why collingwood supporters have this reputation...they dont care if what they say is true or not...it just is because they say so or they want it to be so...great argument.

Recent history being the last decade or more supports my claim clearly 100% without any deviations. There hasnt been 1 premiership side that has relied on a rookie ruckman to take them to a flag especially when your premier ruckman is more a follower than a true ruckman.

I am still trying to work out the basis of your effluence and the overall pie argument on a 20yo kid who has barely played 10 games yet...flag favourites I suspect?

Sigh. You're just going around in circles. Collingwood's best chance of success is in two or three years. Yes, we could snag a flag next year if everything goes right, but our best opportunities, as Mark W has pointed out, are still some time off. It's you -- yet again -- who's acting as if I'm saying Collingwood now has a premiership-quality ruck division for 2008.

FFS, WAG, pay attention. If you're going to argue with me, can't you at least stick to what I say, and not what you invent? (It'd be refreshing.) That's the basis of my 'effluence', as you put it, namely irritation at your misrepresentations and deliberate obtuseness. I would've thought that'd be clear by now.

Now listen closely, WAG. (FFS, man, do us all a favour and concentrate!) We're excited by Cam Wood coming to Collingwood because we think he'll develop into the kind of ruckman we need if we're prepared to wait for him to chalk up another couple of preseasons and another 40-odd games. That said, we're also excited because even in the short-term he'd be a better option than either Richards or Bryan. So yes, he'll give us short-term improvement if it means we don't have to play one of those spuds. But we'll reap the most dividends a couple of years down the track.

Understand now?

 

[ChipDouglas]

Dude, pull your pants up, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Might be time to run up the white flag WAG, you have been owned. A few less beers and more rational thought required if you hope to get some credibility back. And Collingwood lack forwards!!! I haven't laughed that hard in ages, at you, not with you, seriously get a clue or be consigned to the waste basket of stupidity.

Collingwood lack forwards who can take contested marks is what I said. Its just english...try again hey? You have too many of the same leading forward types. Fraser is a leading forward option also.

Rocca on his own is too easily countered. Everyone knows this and Malthouse fell for it again in the Preliminary Final.

And you still havent worked it out either after it cost you a Grand Final berth this season. Thats very savvy of you. Collingwood fans are so on the ball these days...

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Sigh. You're just going around in circles. Collingwood's best chance of success is in two or three years. Yes, we could snag a flag next year if everything goes right, but our best opportunities, as Mark W has pointed out, are still some time off. It's you -- yet again -- who's acting as if I'm saying Collingwood now has a premiership-quality ruck division for 2008.

FFS, WAG, pay attention. If you're going to argue with me, can't you at least stick to what I say, and not what you invent? (It'd be refreshing.) That's the basis of my 'effluence', as you put it, namely irritation at your misrepresentations and deliberate obtuseness. I would've thought that'd be clear by now.

Now listen closely, WAG. (FFS, man, do us all a favour and concentrate!) We're excited by Cam Wood coming to Collingwood because we think he'll develop into the kind of ruckman we need if we're prepared to wait for him to chalk up another couple of preseasons and another 40-odd games. That said, we're also excited because even in the short-term he'd be a better option than either Richards or Bryan. So yes, he'll give us short-term improvement if it means we don't have to play one of those spuds. But we'll reap the most dividends a couple of years down the track.

Understand now?

I do...and what are you going to do about getting an elite ruckman to the side in the next 2-3 years? You wont be able to develop one now its too late so you just have to go out and trade for one? Who will that be?

It will cost you a flag otherwise if you dont. Be as patronising and arse hole insulated as you like mate...it doesnt change that reality.

Understand now?...