Daniel.
Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)
- Thread starter adammania9
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Nah saw him win Norm as a kid and have been a big fan ever since. Always have had a soft spot for the Tiggers had some great players. Sadly their recent run at the to has been tarnished by a few unhumble winners. Not looking forward to seeing how Blues and Bombers fans handle success. Hopefully they learn a little from other teams flog fans and don't out flog them
Oh yeah I was just pushing the topic in any more interesting direction than the same few saddos doing their Martin embellishment while deriding other champions (as if that somehow does anything other than make people roll their eyes).
Plenty of interesting players to discuss.
Carey and Lockett went alright.
Roach, Jess, the dominator, trevor barker, Doull, Capper, Blight and the one who got me to be a Cat fan as he was from the club I played for as a kid Mark Yeates
To answer if he is the GOAT or not, naturally he must be compared with GOAT contenders.
Keeping it to modern players, he is naturally a contender for 3rd after GAJ and Buddy. There's about 10 players who could lay a claim for 3rd this century.
Why weren't they a level above the rest in finals then if they were that great compared to others? In fact one particular player made them look like they were two levels below in finals.
Is that all you have?
I bet you if you asked 95% of people on this forum if Buddy and Ablett were the best players of the 21st century they would say yes. It isn't even really a debate at this point.
I don't even like Ablett but what he could do on the football field was just insane.
Feels this way doesn't it.
If that is "all I have" then it should be a simple matter for you to answer why 99% of the people on this forum seem to believe Dusty was more than a level above those players in the most important games, ie finals. Yet you deflected the question. Why not have a crack at answering?
Something to remember when addressing MR's naivety is that he didn't follow football through the 2000's until 2011ish. That's right, he missed all of peak Ablett's finals (in fact all of his first stint at the Cats) and then has made some fantasy up about underperformance in big games. You can assume the same for Franklin. It's pretty safe to say he didn't take an interest at all until Richmond started making finals again in 2013, like the fair weather supporter he is.
So you can take any claims about the previous decade's football with a grain (or even a truckload) of salt. The decade after that you can just call as one eyed as it possibly gets but at least he was loosely aware of the non-Richmond football being played.
At his best, and he was at his best for quite a while, Ablett was essentially untaggable. He read the play better than almost anyone and had great disposal too. Would get 40 disposals per game for fun.
I didn't miss everyone calling Dusty the greatest finals player ever and precisely nobody calling Ablett or Franklin the greatest finals players ever.
At his best, Martin was untaggable too, only for Martin this was in the biggest games of all. Not so much for Ablett.
I was simply pointing out your lack of knowledge around players 2000-2010 - you know, almost half of the 21st century material so far. I doubt you watched many Gold Coast matches either, so we can pretty much put your Ablett expertise down to "old man GAJ" 2018-2020. You know, where he was still playing good football at an older age than Martin was at retirement.
Easy to have a good game when the match isn't close. Ablett had a great Grand Final in 2009 when the game was close, so his performance mattered. Richmond would have won even if Martin was not playing.
Ablett was also great in shit teams. Martin wasn't.
Partially correct. I watched most of Ablett's Suns games. Didn't get to see home & away footy in the early 2000's but as the decade rolled on I was able to watch most finals.
But nobody would have to watch any games to understand Dusty is seen as head & shoulders the best big game performer this century, and likely, ever. You just have to google the greatest AFL finals player ever. You will soon be able to read articles such as the following:
Left in his Dust: Why Dustin Martin is history's best big-game player
Who better to ask about Dustin Martin's legendary status on the biggest stage of all? Riley Beveridge speaks to five Norm Smith medallists about the Tiger's greatness
www.afl.com.au
Please don't embarrass yourself by pretending to have any sort of informed opinion about football played between 2001-2010.Partially correct. I watched most of Ablett's Suns games. Didn't get to see home & away footy in the early 2000's but as the decade rolled on I was able to watch most finals.
But nobody would have to watch any games to understand Dusty is seen as head & shoulders the best big game performer this century, and likely, ever. You just have to google the greatest AFL finals player ever. You will soon be able to read articles such as the following:
Left in his Dust: Why Dustin Martin is history's best big-game player
Who better to ask about Dustin Martin's legendary status on the biggest stage of all? Riley Beveridge speaks to five Norm Smith medallists about the Tiger's greatness
It is entertaining to hear that you watched all of Ablett's Gold Coast career. He played no good finals up there, if I recall correctly? Yep you've found your finals fraud. Or maybe the finals he played when he was older than post-retirement Dusty?
Just own what your viewing experience actually is, which as you have boasted has largely been the periods in which Richmond were more relevant. Gale made his predictions and then you remembered footy existed again in the early 2010s.
Ablett and Franklin played strong finals spread over a 15-16 year period. Dusty had a fantastic 4 year hot streak, but averages are protected by lack of finals played in his younger and older years. Ablett didn't even play finals through arguably his best 4 year streak and the most dominant 4 years of football we've seen this century.
- May 21, 2015
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Dude Lil garrie only played good finals footy in the four year streak between 2007-2010
Both of those things are demonstrably wrong. Martin consistently performed at elite level in weaker performing teams, 2011(his 2nd season) 2016, 2023 are just 3 examples.
And in Martin's closest final - the 2020 PF v Port Adelaide, he was BOG by miles(max 10 coaches votes, BOG player rating an incredible 50% higher than 2nd highest rated player.)
Not that it would matter, because it was not like Dusty relied solely on his teams dominance to win the ball or impact the scoreboard in finals, almost all his scores were heavily contested.
Then of course there is the not insignificant matter of:
Dusty having by miles the highest offensive 1 v 1 contest winning percentage in the history of the stat being recorded, of 48.5%. The next highest are in the very low 40%'s. His defensive 1 v 1 loss % was 20%.
Ablett was 38% for offensive 1 v 1 wins with a 40% defensive contest loss %.
Franklin was 37% for offensive 1 v 1 wins and his defensive 1 v 1 loss % was 17%.
Except Ablett was also one of our best in the 2004 SF, 2005 EF and 2020 PF. Aged 20, 21 and 36. Rookie and old man seasons. You could throw in the 2018 EF and 2019 PF too, given the poor performances of the rest of our players.
Dusty played no good finals in the ones he played aged 22-24 and 31, age rages much closer to his prime.
- May 21, 2015
- 4,737
- 6,989
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Dude Dusty was named in Richmond's best in both the 2014 and 2015 finals, did you even watch them? Doubt it
