Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Magpie45]

Neither are 24

They turn 24 this year, cupcake. Everyone from the 2015 draft does.

 

[nuey]

They turn 24 this year, cupcake. Everyone from the 2015 draft does.

In Nov & Dec so come back then and call them 24 or continue being wrong

 

[Magpie45]

In Nov & Dec so come back then and call them 24 or continue being wrong

The fact that you're getting this angst over player ages in the context of your club's youth is... yikes.

 

[nuey]

The fact that you're getting this angst over player ages in the context of your club's youth is... yikes.

The fact that you need to lie to try to make your point makes it a pretty flimsy argument sweetheart

 

[Magpie45]

The fact that you need to lie to try to make your point makes it a pretty flimsy argument sweetheart

Nah, it's fair to say Carlton's youth is trash, and two guys picked 6 years ago doesn't change that notion much.

Also, calling two guys 24 year olds when they turn 24 this year isn't nearly as heinous of a crime as you're trying to make out.

 

[nuey]

Nah, it's fair to say Carlton's youth is trash, and two guys picked 6 years ago doesn't change that notion much.

Also, calling two guys 24 year olds when they turn 24 this year isn't nearly as heinous of a crime as you're trying to make out.

It's ok to be wrong, it happens to the best of us

 

[Magpie45]

It's ok to be wrong, it happens to the best of us

Whatever helps you sleep at night, your club's youth is still objectively awful though.

 

[TylerDurden]

The Geelong is old and slow thread is not here. But yes if you must know I personally am not sure about it and would prefer a couple of younger players were in our side as opposed to Dal and Higgins. Smith I don't mind. Age really isn't effecting him much. He was brought in to help our spread when moving the ball forward on wider grounds.

Staggered Jordan Clark isn't getting a game. Would love him at Hawthorn.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Geelong 23 and under.

Brandon Parfitt
Jordan Clark
Max Holmes
Ben Jarvis
Cooper Stephens
Sam De Koning
Nathan Kreuger
Esava Ratagolea
Charlie Constable
Quinton Narkle
Oscar Brownless
Nick Stevens
Frankie Evans
Gryan Myers
Zac Guthrie
Shannon Neal
Paul Tsapatolis
Sam Simpson
Jack Henry
Cameron Taheny
Stephen Okunbor
Brad Close.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Staggered Jordan Clark isn't getting a game. Would love him at Hawthorn.

Yea I want him in our side. Holmes too. Yes could understand if others like them also. We do need to be finding more out about some of these younger players.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Nah, it's fair to say Carlton's youth is trash, and two guys picked 6 years ago doesn't change that notion much.

Also, calling two guys 24 year olds when they turn 24 this year isn't nearly as heinous of a crime as you're trying to make out.

2-8 and no first round pick this year

 

[Scotland]

How did Lewis go at Melbourne? Fringe player at best. How many years did Mitchell last at WC? Lewis was fairly cooked, JOM and T.Mitchell were both better than the player he was at Melbourne. S.Mitchell was still a genius, and I wish we'd been able to keep him. What makes you think we wanted both Lewis and Mitchell to actually leave anyway? Supposedly we wanted Lewis to stay, but he wanted to be special cased and given multi year contracts when almost nobody else his age at the club was getting them. Melbourne offered him 3 years, and he was terrible in year 3. I've heard very credible reports that Mitchell wanted to leave at the end of 2015 for WC, and we talked him into staying to help with the 4-peat (in fact may have forced him to stay), but when we missed out he still wanted to go, and we honoured his wishes. It also let us get some younger players in as a side bonus, but them wanting golden handshakes elsewhere seemed like the bigger factor.

Is letting two club legends go when they get better offers elsewhere really what you are calling 'crazy'? If they both wanted to stay we'd likely have kept them, but they didn't want to stay so we had to replace them. We had to decide at that point if we might be able to get up for another flag. Should we top up a team that had narrowly missed a prelim or should we do a Carlton? We probably looked around and thought that while our list wasn't what it was at its peak, there was no really standout team challenging, and with a more even competition getting a decaying list up with a few topups is simply not as dumb as your Hawthorn hating mind would like to see it.

Two paragraphs? Could've stretched it to 4 or 5, surely.

It's a crazy notion but you don't have to gut your list or trade your future for magic beans. It's not some binary choice no matter how many times your Carlton hating mind wants to bring them into it for whatever reason.

I don't know why you are fixated on Lewis and Mitchell leaving. Mitchell re-signed during the 2016 season so if he had his heart set on leaving at the end of 2015 that would be an odd move. If you wanted to win in 2017 then keeping them was probably a good idea, and if you wanted to win in 2016 then keeping Brian Lake was probably a good idea. Either way most of your better players were pretty old by the end of 2015/16 anyway. Which is why people said topping up wouldn't work and giving up future assets was a bad idea...

Anyway, your 23 and unders are better than Collingwood, WC and Geelong. Or something.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yea I want him in our side. Holmes too. Yes could understand if others like them also. We do need to be finding more out about some of these younger players.

doesn’t deserve a game. Should be made to work hard on his game at vfl level, and was ordinary on Thursday. Holmes just needs a tank

 

[Scotland]

It's way to early to make an assessment of Collingwood's kids, but I am extremely underwhelmed by the Eagles youth to be honest.

Oscar Allen aside, there does not seem to be undrr 23 Eagles player that looks like evolving into a future A Grader/Star.

I agree. But I'm not seeing a raft of future stars in any of the teams listed.

 

[Blue1980]

It's sad when you need to piggyback on 24 year olds as your "youth".

Except I haven’t, both turn 24 in November/December.

 

[Blue1980]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, your club's youth is still objectively awful though.

You were wrong in trying to prove a point.

Looks like 16-17 drafts didn’t go well for us, though I’m pretty confident with TDK.

Stocker I think will be a good player, and we still don’t know about Kemp and Philp yet.

 

[Cringle]

It’s almost impossible to judge a teams youth of 23 and unders.

Just because some are getting games doesn’t mean they’ll become anything more than role players - which are a dime a dozen.

A lot of the time they have a break out season from nowhere.

Just impossible to predict really. So it sounds like a dick measuring contest of whose youth has been playing more games and looks borderline AFL standard that may or may not develop into a very good player.

 

[Magpie45]

You were wrong in trying to prove a point.

Looks like 16-17 drafts didn’t go well for us, though I’m pretty confident with TDK.

Stocker I think will be a good player, and we still don’t know about Kemp and Philp yet.

What point? I just correctly pointed out your youth is trash and a couple of you have desperately clung onto the fact that McKay and Weltering are still 23, even though they're in the age group of players turning 24 this year.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Listen, I respect Geelong and take my hat off re the fact that you haven't bottomed out yet. Kudos. But even you must be a little concerned with the loading up on 30+ year olds, with a lack of quality youth coming through? At some stage it has to bite. And could be one almighty cliff you are staring down. We're in that position now, but at least we're playing a truck load of kids.

We have plenty of quality youth coming through.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

We have plenty of quality youth coming through.

There is some quality youth down at Geelong, but when comparing to pretty much every other club it would be found lacking.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

There is some quality youth down at Geelong, but when comparing to pretty much every other club it would be found lacking.

Some of ours just haven't been exposed as much as others.

 

[Magpie45]

We have plenty of quality youth coming through.

Every team has some quality youth. Geelong are still like 14th-18th on the youth quality ladder.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Every team has some quality youth. Geelong are still like 14th-18th on the youth quality ladder.

I've been hearing that for 12 years.

 

[Magpie45]

I've been hearing that for 12 years.

Yes, and?

Just because you've survived at the top with continual top-ups and mature age draftees doesn't mean you have amazing youth in 2021.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yes, and?

Just because you've survived at the top with continual top-ups and mature age draftees doesn't mean you have amazing youth in 2021.

I'm pretty content with what we have in terms of youth at VFL level.