Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion

[The Return of the Paf]

Just because teams historically benefitted from a s**t system doesn’t mean we should continue the s**t system until everyone gets a turn.

The only problem with that is the AFL knew what they were doing because it benefited certain clubs, it's only being looked into now because it has already served its purpose. Why wouldn't clubs that have yet to benefit question the timing of all this?

 

[Coona Blues]

The only problem with that is the AFL knew what they were doing because it benefited certain clubs, it's only being looked into now because it has already served its purpose. Why wouldn't clubs that have yet to benefit question the timing of all this?

In fairness, the review is more aimed at the academies. Father/son being dragged in is inevitable as it is an outlier. Other than the massive free hit for a couple of clubs (Geelong and currently the ‘dogs), it has not been a major issue. I cannot see access being restricted, but the nonsense of sacrificing points for future gain and paying for prime candidates with multiple later round picks is incongruous.

Access to players should not be negotiable, but paying full price should be required.

Hopefully the changes are not enacted until after the Campo draft, to give us access under “current” rules. I have no issues if we are forced to pay full price for Cody Walker. The problem arises if a bitter and twisted recruiter bids early to force a club to overpay. (Any danger?)

Similarly the Gold Coast academy bounty should have been harder to acquire.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The only problem with that is the AFL knew what they were doing because it benefited certain clubs, it's only being looked into now because it has already served its purpose. Why wouldn't clubs that have yet to benefit question the timing of all this?

It’s being looked at now because we evidence that the system is cooked.

We’ll still have an advantage , they just need to do something about the points bullshit. You shouldn’t be able to trade your first rounder away for a bunch of nothing picks and then an elite talent.

 

[Arr0w]

Let the clubs retain first access when other clubs bid, allow the use of multiple later picks to match the bid, remove all discounts

 

[BluStreak]

Not all father/sons make it either. Whereas academies produce 3-4 each year that do.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd hazard a guess that it's being looked at now specifically because GC have had their last hurrah as far as the AFL is concerned. GWS are newer and clearly have their shit more together - on-field and as an organisation.

Feed through one last heavily discounted crop of talent, install a proven premiership coach, and then cut the apron-strings and focus on Tassie.

There'd be mutiny from the established clubs if they get reamed by Tassie getting priority access to 60 kids over two years at the same time as GC and Co are getting heavily discounted first rounders that nobody else can select.

 

[katmanblue]

Just because teams historically benefitted from a s**t system doesn’t mean we should continue the s**t system until everyone gets a turn.

Only until we do.

Sent from my SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[thylacine60]

says something when you look at the parade of stars given to gold coast and they've never made the 8.........

 

[Couper]

Father and sons with no games requirement
No more academy's, it's an effen joke
Rant over...

 

[Coops93]

says something when you look at the parade of stars given to gold coast and they've never made the 8.........

Who are all the academy stars Gold Coast have?

 

[Robertio]

Who are all the academy stars Gold Coast have?

They picked up 3 in the first round last draft if i remember.

 

[Coops93]

They picked up 3 in the first round last draft if i remember.

They did but none of them have even played yet.

They've had an academy for years and no stars have come from it. All the Suns best players were drafted - Miller, Rowell, Anderson, King, Lukosius & Ballard. Traded in Witts (or FA, I don't remember), rookie drafted Sam Collins. They aren't propped up by an academy.

Academies are a boogeyman everyone talks about constantly but they've not overly moved the needle imo. This year with the Suns having 3x first rounders is an outlier and a freak year, not the norm. Even with that 3, 2 of them are long term project sort of players and not immediate impact players. It's not like they got Nick Daicos, Matt Rowell and Sam Walsh who kick arse from yr 1, none of them are locks to be stars. Walter is the most likely but the other 2 have reasonable knocks against and may not be guns.

 

[Coona Blues]

They did but none of them have even played yet.

They've had an academy for years and no stars have come from it. All the Suns best players were drafted - Miller, Rowell, Anderson, King, Lukosius & Ballard. Traded in Witts (or FA, I don't remember), rookie drafted Sam Collins. They aren't propped up by an academy.

Academies are a boogeyman everyone talks about constantly but they've not overly moved the needle imo. This year with the Suns having 3x first rounders is an outlier and a freak year, not the norm. Even with that 3, 2 of them are long term project sort of players and not immediate impact players. It's not like they got Nick Daicos, Matt Rowell and Sam Walsh who kick arse from yr 1, none of them are locks to be stars. Walter is the most likely but the other 2 have reasonable knocks against and may not be guns.

Point well made, but your assessments of their “current crop” are wrong. But, yes, until now they have not had “generational talent”.

Walter is going to be a star, Read is going to be a star, the only question is if it is key forward, key back or most likely ruck, not to forget he has Blicavs like capability to play wing or “wherever”, he is known as “the Unicorn” for valid reasons. Rogers is as close to a Touk Miller clone as you will get, granted, the level he attains in elite company is an unknown. You are forgetting the fourth of their haul Will Graham, mid or half back who has been named in their emergencies and is closer than the other trio at the moment due to injuries as well as player type.

They have plenty of academy players (and priority access) on their list and in the ‘22, playing a role, granted not stars, but solid players.

 

[Coops93]

Point well made, but your assessments of their “current crop” are wrong. But, yes, until now they have not had “generational talent”.

Walter is going to be a star, Read is going to be a star, the only question is if it is key forward, key back or most likely ruck, not to forget he has Blicavs like capability to play wing or “wherever”, he is known as “the Unicorn” for valid reasons. Rogers is as close to a Touk Miller clone as you will get, granted, the level he attains in elite company is an unknown. You are forgetting the fourth of their haul Will Graham, mid or half back who has been named in their emergencies and is closer than the other trio at the moment due to injuries as well as player type.

They have plenty of academy players (and priority access) on their list and in the ‘22, playing a role, granted not stars, but solid players.

I'm not, I'm a Suns member who has followed them very closely which is why I notice the question marks more. I perhaps sounded more negative than I should have, I more meant they aren't guaranteed stars - Walter aside (imo) - but they will likely be in their best handful at some point. Spoilered as to not take up space.

Spoiler

Reid is very, very skinny. Will he be able to continue that unicorn type ability once he fills out (if he's able to)? If he doesn't fill out, will he be able to stand up physically to opposing ruckmen? (Ruck is where I think he'll end up). If not, where's his 2nd position? Forward sounds nice but they're stacked for forwards, where does he fit amongst Walter, King, Lukosius? Rogers isn't quite a Touk clone, he's more dymanic and has more lateral ability than Touk does who's very straight line and workmanlike in his game as opposed to dynamic. He's also much smaller than Touk, who already is fairly small but he's stout. Rogers isn't stout or built like Touk so whether he physically can handle an AFL midfield is a query.

Graham was a genuine 2nd rounder. He's good but not elite.

The only one of them that could be considered generational is Walter. If it wasn't for the relatively shallow draft it's likely that Rogers would've been a 2nd round pick and Graham would've been a bottom of 2nd/3rd round pick. Even up until a couple months before the draft Rogers was still slated as a 2nd, but late shot up a bit and became a 1st. Not a low 2s but a late teens pick.

The best of all 4 is coming up this next draft, though. He played in the winning VFL premiership side as a 16 yr old, which is remarkable. Leo Lomard is a bottom ager so likely isn't no.1 on a lot of boards right now but he's highly touted internally and is seen as a genuine blue-chip talent. Look for Lombard to shoot up draft boards as the yr goes on. If he played for Vic Metro instead of the Suns Academy he probably already would be in the top couple.

 

[thylacine60]

Who are all the academy stars Gold Coast have?

fair call, I was speaking more draft concessions generally.......

 

[DangerousD]

I can’t remember a time where we had so many potential father sons coming through, a very exciting few years and a perfect time to have a hopeful conveyer belt of talent coming through.

 

[mjtim1]

Just read a fox footy article on draft prospects. Apparently the campo twins are currently ranked mid to late draft, so we won't need much currency.

AFL Draft Watch: Clubs tipped to prioritise draft; top father-son and academy prospects to keep an eye on

Big Vic club tipped to trade hard; Lions’ delicate balance ahead of monster haul: Draft Watch

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Coona Blues]

Just read a fox footy article on draft prospects. Apparently the campo twins are currently ranked mid to late draft, so we won't need much currency.

AFL Draft Watch: Clubs tipped to prioritise draft; top father-son and academy prospects to keep an eye on

Big Vic club tipped to trade hard; Lions’ delicate balance ahead of monster haul: Draft Watch

www.foxsports.com.au

I don’t put much stock in articles like that one.

On “recent” form, Ben would be a mid/late first to mid second rounder. He has the scope to push to top ten, but reasonable projections would have him stay in the same range. Lucas, on exposed form is considerably more outside, so for mine, barring an outstanding year, absolutely reads as late second at very best. He does have the skills to elevate, but looks best suited to a wing or half back (seagull) role. I am not suggesting on limited viewing that he is soft, but played very much outside in the futures game, and by reports through the season. His skills are possibly sharper than Ben’s, but neither is lacking there.

When younger, Lucas was the more highly rated of the two, probably off skill assessment and his left sided POD. Fair to say, the more inside focussed Ben pushed past his brother during their “bottom aged” season.

It is too early for a real assessment, but a big year could push one or both to the first round, possibly even top 10 for Ben if he grows in the futures game. Similarly if SA is underwhelming at the champs, and they don’t stand out, they could slide dramatically.

Little edit: altered late first to mid/late first.

 

[skadoosh]

I don’t put much stock in articles like that one.

On “recent” form, Ben would be a late first to mid second rounder. He has the scope to push to top ten, but reasonable projections would have him stay in the same range. Lucas, on exposed form is considerably more outside, so for mine, barring an outstanding year, absolutely reads as late second at very best. He does have the skills to elevate, but looks best suited to a wing or half back (seagull) role. I am not suggesting on limited viewing that he is soft, but played very much outside in the futures game, and by reports through the season. His skills are possibly sharper than Ben’s, but neither is lacking there.

When younger, Lucas was the more highly rated of the two, probably off skill assessment and his left sided POD. Fair to say, the more inside focussed Ben pushed past his brother during their “bottom aged” season.

It is too early for a real assessment, but a big year could push one or both to the first round, possibly even top 10 for Ben if he grows in the futures game. Similarly if SA is underwhelming at the champs, and they don’t stand out, they could slide dramatically.

Love this type of info.
Highly appreciate the write up!

What are the twins' height currently?

 

[Coops93]

Just read a fox footy article on draft prospects. Apparently the campo twins are currently ranked mid to late draft, so we won't need much currency.

AFL Draft Watch: Clubs tipped to prioritise draft; top father-son and academy prospects to keep an eye on

Big Vic club tipped to trade hard; Lions’ delicate balance ahead of monster haul: Draft Watch

www.foxsports.com.au

I read that too, and I think it's a bit rubbish.

Draft boards I've seen have Ben ranked toward the bottom of the top 10 and Lucas somewhere in the late teens-2nd round.

Ranked 8th
https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...mith-levi-ashcroft-tyler-welsh-ben-camporeale

Ranked 4th (Probably a little high imo, but still nowhere near a mid draft pick is the point)
https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2023/11/22/24-in-2024-a-look-ahead-to-next-years-top-prospects/

Ranked 7th

The EIGHT best AFL Draft prospects for 2024

Academy and father-son prospects are set to feature among the top end next year as well.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[marcmurphy3]

SANFL Under 18s starts this weekend. Glenelg playing on Sunday. Will be interesting to see if Campos play well enough to be elevated to seniors when they start a few weeks later.

 

[Karma Train]

I don’t put much stock in articles like that one.

On “recent” form, Ben would be a mid/late first to mid second rounder. He has the scope to push to top ten, but reasonable projections would have him stay in the same range. Lucas, on exposed form is considerably more outside, so for mine, barring an outstanding year, absolutely reads as late second at very best. He does have the skills to elevate, but looks best suited to a wing or half back (seagull) role. I am not suggesting on limited viewing that he is soft, but played very much outside in the futures game, and by reports through the season. His skills are possibly sharper than Ben’s, but neither is lacking there.

When younger, Lucas was the more highly rated of the two, probably off skill assessment and his left sided POD. Fair to say, the more inside focussed Ben pushed past his brother during their “bottom aged” season.

It is too early for a real assessment, but a big year could push one or both to the first round, possibly even top 10 for Ben if he grows in the futures game. Similarly if SA is underwhelming at the champs, and they don’t stand out, they could slide dramatically.

Little edit: altered late first to mid/late first.

great post and certainly aligns with what I am hearing. I know a few recruiters in the industry, and they indicated that Ben is certainly the better prospect. He seems to be rated around the 15 mark for them currently. Lucas on the other hand has definitely drifted back, now looking like a late 2nd rounder, perhaps even 3rd rounder.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I wouldn’t hold these different overall draft rankings as anything more than just a difference in early opinions…

Like every year there will be players rated from previous season that will enhance their chances, some will slide and some will come from nowhere…

We have 2 currently on our list in Moir and Lemmey who were both projected top 5/10 players coming into their draft years, things change, many things that can and does impact a young persons life and early underage football career…

Might sound like a cliche but things will take care of themselves as the year progresses…

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I doubt either Campo boys push too high up the draft board in terms of reaching top 5-10 material but think both have the makings of very good role players imo. Should have no issues with needing points etc come draft night.

Ben to me plays like a smoother moving James Rowbottom

8

James Rowbottom

Age

24

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.6

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.2

4star

. Natural ball winner and great defensive pressure, has the strength to stand up in a tackle and distribute under pressure, generally just a smart player who moves beautifully. But he's not the best kick overall and has a bit of an ugly sort of action to him which imo means he's more prone to slamming it on the boot at times. Good thing is his hands are great so he often distributes to someone in a better position than he is.

Lucas a much more damaging user of the footy but tends to play on the periphery. The type of player who opposition teams would want to limit because he seems to make things happen when he's got the ball. Don't notice that he's soft at all but he's just doesn't seem naturally inclined to dive into a pack and dig out the footy like a traditional on baller. Should make a good half back or wing or even high half forward, if he develops the inside game that Ben has then he could find himself very high on draft boards, but I think he'll stick to his more outside roles this season.


Cody Walker is whole different beast from reports, hope we get to see a bit of him at rep level this year in the 16s as I cbf going to Echuca to watch him play.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I read that too, and I think it's a bit rubbish.

Draft boards I've seen have Ben ranked toward the bottom of the top 10 and Lucas somewhere in the late teens-2nd round.

Ranked 8th
https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...mith-levi-ashcroft-tyler-welsh-ben-camporeale

Ranked 4th (Probably a little high imo, but still nowhere near a mid draft pick is the point)
https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2023/11/22/24-in-2024-a-look-ahead-to-next-years-top-prospects/

Ranked 7th

The EIGHT best AFL Draft prospects for 2024

Academy and father-son prospects are set to feature among the top end next year as well.

www.zerohanger.com

Nice. Has ESPN done in previous years? How accurate was it.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...pah-harley-reid-ashton-moir-zane-duursma-high - ESPN's top 10 projections from 4 April 2023. Interestingly, 7 of their projected top 10 ended up being drafted top 10.

The other 3 were drafted 13th (Koltyn Tolstrup), 29th (Ashton Moir) and 30th (Archer Reid).

They had Moir rated 2nd after Harley Reid!