Carlton are legit flag threats

[lionel_luthor]

Collingwood have played like garbage tonight IMHO, on exposed form we will win, by decent margain...

 

[JD11]

Whilst the flag might not be won in round 3... more often than not the team who wins the flag will drop 2, mayby 3 games for the year. Hawthorn were probably an exception in 08 losing 5 H&A games.

im guessing you started watching football in 2007.

 

[wmvaux]

So that will come about because one team can't improve but awaits anothers demise?

Whether you're talking about Carlton, Fremantle or Sydney, that is indeed a foolish concept.
Some of you people listen to too many media commentators. Grow your own brain, for gods sake.

That's because I don't think Carlton have improved that much if at all.

Come finals time they'll still be looking for a big key forward that they don't have... where will Hampson be come finals? Most likely not in the team.

Where is Carlton's big improvement? It has to come from players within, it's been carried by Judd/Murphy/Scotland. so if either of them drop off they won't get there. I think they will need luck to get into a Prelim Final at best.

 

[HARKER]

That's because I don't think Carlton have improved that much if at all.

Where is Carlton's big improvement? It has to come from players within, it's been carried by Judd/Murphy/Scotland. so if either of them drop off they won't get there. I think they will need luck to get into a Prelim Final at best.

I have to repeat it?
The immediate improvement comes from having players Waite, Kreuzer, Jamison, Henderson, Hampson, Curnow, Lucas having an injury free season.
All the above played only half the year at the most, last year.
You don't see that there could be improvement should we keep them on the field?

Gibbs, Walker and Robinson were premium in the off-season.
Those three haven't hit their straps yet, with Walker currently injured and Robinson coming back from injury.

The younger players in Yarran, Tuohy and Laidler are primed to take the next step.

Just keep an eye out on Judd also this year. Has trimmed down and running as he was 5 years ago.
Only just warming up at the moment after recent shoulder surgery.

I am not quite sure why some keeping singing the mantra for the need of a gorilla come finals.
You don't think a forward line of Waite, Walker, Gibbs, Garlett, Betts, Kreuzer/Hampson can kick any goals?

 

[wmvaux]

I am not quite sure why some keeping singing the mantra for the need of a gorilla come finals.
You don't think a forward line of Waite, Walker, Gibbs, Garlett, Betts, Kreuzer/Hampson can kick any goals?

There haven't been many teams go all the way without having a big key forward, they don't have to perform on the day, but they make a difference getting there.

Your forward line... Waite is at the end of he career, has been inconsistent, Walker has had one great year, can he back it up??? Gibbs isn't a forward, Garlett and Betts are solid contributors around goal because there isn't anyone else. Kreuzer and Hampson will share time up forward and kick the odd goal or two, their not likely to kick more than 20 for the season unless they were played permanently up forward. It all revolves around 2 mid fielders and teams have been able to shut them down in finals.

 

[HARKER]

There haven't been many teams go all the way without having a big key forward, they don't have to perform on the day, but they make a difference getting there.

Your forward line... Waite is at the end of he career, has been inconsistent, Walker has had one great year, can he back it up??? Gibbs isn't a forward, Garlett and Betts are solid contributors around goal because there isn't anyone else. Kreuzer and Hampson will share time up forward and kick the odd goal or two, their not likely to kick more than 20 for the season unless they were played permanently up forward. It all revolves around 2 mid fielders and teams have been able to shut them down in finals.

Waite is at the beginning of a three year contract. It seems that not everyone thinks he's quite at the end of his career.
Walker had the best pre-season of any Carlton player I have ever seen. Shame he's not playing right now.
Gibbs averaged 2 goals a game in his last 7 games last year. Geared to spend more time forward.
Betts & Garlett kicked just on 100 between them last year. Tracking along O.K. for a similar result this year.
You don't think Kreuzer & Hampson will kick 20 each this year, alternating between ruck and forward? They're well on track so far.

Yes sure we'd like Franklin or Cloke, but other teams may well like to have the likes of Walker, Garlett and Betts buzzing about marking, kicking goals and keeping the ball in the forward 50.

 

[Scotland]

I have to repeat it?
The immediate improvement comes from having players Waite, Kreuzer, Jamison, Henderson, Hampson, Curnow, Lucas having an injury free season.
All the above played only half the year at the most, last year.
You don't see that there could be improvement should we keep them on the field?

So basically you're pinning your hopes on having exactly the same players as last year but no injuries occurring to anyone?

And if you lose Judd or Murphy? Or Betts/Garlett? Or Yarran/Scotland?

 

[jonoman89]

So basically you're pinning your hopes on having exactly the same players as last year but no injuries occurring to anyone?

And if you lose Judd or Murphy? Or Betts/Garlett? Or Yarran/Scotland?

Then we'd be ****ed like every other team losing that amount of quality. On the flip side we might get lucky like West Coast in 2011.

The improvement in Carlton is obvious. Our FF, FB, 1st ruck and CHB played half a year each. What more reason do you need?

 

[Scotland]

Then we might get lucky like West Coast in 2011.

The improvement in Carlton is obvious. Our FF, FB, 1st ruck and CHB played half a year each. What more reason do you need?

Well we finished 4th, so you might want to bank on more than luck if you're planning on being a 'legit flag threat' as eluded to in the OP.

Outside of Princes Park, plenty of people don't actually rate Henderson, Waite and the abilities of Kreuzer/Hampson as key forwards highly enough to be considered the difference between Carlton making up the numbers in the finals and taking home the cup. Waite hasn't put together a 22 game season since 2007 anyway, so banking on him to be a permanent fixture is a risk in itself. Ottens, Ling, Selwood, Corey all missed games for Geelong in 2011. Can Carlton win without Judd, Murphy, Scotland, Gibbs, Scotland?

The point stands, if you've got nothing better than 'we'll have all our players available all the time this year' then you probably aren't going to convince anyone that your team is a legitimate flag threat.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well we finished 4th, so you might want to bank on more than luck if you're planning on being a 'legit flag threat' as eluded to in the OP.

Yes you finished fourth. barely. You beat us at Subiaco by 3 points when we were without several key players - including any of our second - and arguably better - ruchkmen in Kreuzer and Hampson, Gibbs didnt play because of injury. Thornton off injured for the match at half time. Any of those instead of Davies and the result would have been something else.

Yeah you had a good year, but try not to over-rate yourselves there too much chief.

 

[jonoman89]

Well we finished 4th, so you might want to bank on more than luck if you're planning on being a 'legit flag threat' as eluded to in the OP.

Was referring to injuries. AKA the thing you were lucky enough to avoid for the most part in 2011, if we can do similar we are already going to rise up the ladder.

Outside of Princes Park, plenty of people don't actually rate Henderson, Waite and the abilities of Kreuzer/Hampson as key forwards highly enough to be considered the difference between Carlton making up the numbers in the finals and taking home the cup.

That's fine. Plenty of teams have won a flag with set ups which seem average to others.

I remember very few rated your forward line in 05/06.

The point stands, if you've got nothing better than 'we'll have all our players available all the time this year' then you probably aren't going to convince anyone that your team is a legitimate flag threat.

Yarran, Garlett, Robinson, Lucas, Kreuzer....all pretty decent young players who have a lot of improvement left in them and are very capable of breaking out this year. This week might be the first time in 2 years we have a full defence set up allowing Gibbs to move into the middle as he is always promised to do but never does due to other factors.

It's too early to call Carlton a flag threat yet, I agree. But I think a win over Collingwood on the weekend could be justification enough to consider us a chance.

 

[Scotland]

Yes you finished fourth. barely. You beat us at Subiaco by 3 points when we were without several key players - including any of our second - and arguably better - ruchkmen in Kreuzer and Hampson, Gibbs didnt play because of injury. Thornton off injured for the match at half time. Any of those instead of Davies and the result would have been something else.

Yeah you had a good year, but try not to over-rate yourselves there too much chief.

You might have a point if I was talking up our chances, which I was not. FWIW, we finished 4th with 17 wins. You finished 5th with 14 and a half. Lucky? Perhaps, but enough wins to finish top 2 in almost any other year and a 2.5 game buffer over 5th is hardly scraping into 4th.

What I was doing is talking down your chances, based on the feeble reasoning provided by Blues fans. 'Oh but we had this guy out for this match, and that guy for that one, then that other guy - yeah he missed a game too and we soooo would've won with him'. I'll give you the scoop, there are 17 other clubs whose fans couldn't give a **** how hard done by you think you were in 2011.

As far as our chances go, we're already working on improving our side (some things clearly noticeable 2 rounds in) from 2011 because finishing 4th and losing to Collingwood and Geelong showed that 4th is about where we are at going into 2012, and 4th isn't 1st.

I guess we could philosophise about what could have been if we had our best on-baller in the QF that we narrowly lost, or give up on 2012 because we've lost our #2 and #3 goal kickers from 2011 for the season (likely), but that isn't going to achieve anything now, is it?

 

[FGMPR]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Yes you finished fourth. barely. You beat us at Subiaco by 3 points when we were without several key players - including any of our second - and arguably better - ruchkmen in Kreuzer and Hampson, Gibbs didnt play because of injury. Thornton off injured for the match at half time. Any of those instead of Davies and the result would have been something else.

Yeah you had a good year, but try not to over-rate yourselves there too much chief.

Hilarious shit. The Eagles finish 10 points ahead in the H&A including a 6 goal or so win against the next best team away from home, and we were apparently lucky. I don't think I've seen a single Carlton supporter on BF give the Eagles the credit they deserved for last year. It was all just... Luck

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Hilarious shit. The Eagles finish 10 points ahead in the H&A including a 6 goal or so win against the next best team away from home, and we were apparently lucky. I don't think I've seen a single Carlton supporter on BF give the Eagles the credit they deserved for last year. It was all just... Luck

West Coast are a seriously good football side.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they won the flag this year.

 

[Corrosion]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Another hilarious thread that has brought out the anti-Carlton posters.

Basic summation of this thread from opposition supporters is that Carlton have no room for improvement and other top 4 conteners do.

Never heard such drivel in my life. The thread was even made by a Hawthorn supporter. FWIW, I'll make a judgement after round 7 when you can actually gauge some kind of form line.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Another hilarious thread that has brought out the anti-Carlton posters.

Basic summation of this thread from opposition supporters is that Carlton have no room for improvement and other top 4 conteners do.

Never heard such drivel in my life. The thread was even made by a Hawthorn supporter. FWIW, I'll make a judgement after round 7 when you can actually gauge some kind of form line.

If Henderson keeps improving at the rate he is and becomes a better than average key position backman, you can certainly win the flag.

 

[romeoh]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

West Coast are a seriously good football side.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they won the flag this year.

West Coast are good and have a soft as draw but good enough yet on the G in September? Maybe next year.
Looks like there are several legit chances this year-really exciting to see it open up like this-Cats and Pies coming back to the field a little and Carlton, Hawthorn, West Coast have improved by the looks. Adelaide could come up quickly and Freo too. Then Sydney, Doggies, Richmond, North, Essendon really competing. Might be a good year.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

West Coast are good and have a soft as draw but good enough yet on the G in September? Maybe next year.

The only side who they won't beat at the G is Geelong(reasons i won't get into) and their a better than even chance against Carlton and Hawthorn because of their tall timber. Write them off at your peril.

 

[romeoh]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

The only side who they won't beat at the G is Geelong(reasons i won't get into) and their a better than even chance against Carlton and Hawthorn because of their tall timber. Write them off at your peril.

I'm not writing them off at my peril but because I am a Geelong supporter I needn't be worried yep? So I'm not.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

West Coast are a seriously good football side.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they won the flag this year.

Well, hang on there. If we're all talking Carlton down for coming up against nothing so far, how can we, at the same time, be convinced of West Coast's premiership aspirations? West Coast absolutely could be at the head of the ladder when they get to the bye, but their run after that is brutal: Collingwood twice, Carlton, Geelong, Hawthorn at the MCG, two trips to AAMI. If they come out of that stretch relatively unscathed and finish top two, yes they are legitimate premiership contenders.

 

[romeoh]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

I'm not writing them off at my peril but because I am a Geelong supporter I needn't be worried yep? So I'm not.

Re WC-Do think Carlton and a few others are worryingly good now though.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Well, hang on there. If we're all talking Carlton down for coming up against nothing so far, how can we, at the same time, be convinced of West Coast's premiership aspirations? West Coast absolutely could be at the head of the ladder when they get to the bye, but their run after that is brutal: Collingwood twice, Carlton, Geelong, Hawthorn at the MCG, two trips to AAMI. If they come out of that stretch relatively unscathed and finish top two, yes they are legitimate premiership contenders.

Because West Coast finished in the 4 last year, have 12 games at home and will trouble Carlton and Hawthorn with their height regardless of where they play.

I'm certainly not talking Carlton down.

If Henderson keeps improving at the rate he is and becomes a better than average key position backman, you can certainly win the flag.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

I'm not writing them off at my peril but because I am a Geelong supporter I needn't be worried yep? So I'm not.

That is of course if we're not drawn to meet them in the West anytime in the finals.

 

[Fadge]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Hilarious shit. The Eagles finish 10 points ahead in the H&A including a 6 goal or so win against the next best team away from home, and we were apparently lucky. I don't think I've seen a single Carlton supporter on BF give the Eagles the credit they deserved for last year. It was all just... Luck

Also remember that West Coast were coming off a bruising encounter with Collingwood the week before where they were right in the game until 5 minutes to go of the last quarter. Conversely, Carlton had a stroll in the park the week prior.

It's fair to say West Coast clearly showed what the gap between the two sides was when they met at the 'G earlier in the year.

 

[Scotland]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

It's fair to say West Coast clearly showed what the gap between the two sides was when they met at the 'G earlier in the year.

Oh lordy, not this again.

We were actually playing the Bullants that day, check the match records.

To even it up we even picked Tom Swift and still beat them by 6 goals.