Carlton are legit flag threats

[Scotland]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Because West Coast finished in the 4 last year, have 12 games at home and will trouble Carlton and Hawthorn with their height regardless of where they play.

West Coast have 11 games at home, not 12. Playing Fremantle 'away' does not count as a home game.

Carlton have 18/22 games in Victoria in 2012, so applying the same logic they have 18 games at home. Good deal.

 

[El Camino]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Off topic. But rumour coming out of the Carlton camp is that Chris Judd will be retiring at the end of the 2013 season, or at least that's what is being said. I overheard a high ranked member of the Carlton football club, a member of the board, talking to my father on Sunday and he quoted "It's a sure thing that Judd is retiring at the end of 2013".

Judd will only be 30 when he retires, but his reasons are simply that he has achieved all he wants to and wishes to pursue a new goal in life. The only possible way that he may stay on for another year would be if Carlton lost the premiership in 2013.

 

[serenityNow]

Must be school holidays A thread like this after 2 rounds? 2 rounds?


I'd like to think were a shot this year, but until we beat the Hawthorns & Colllingwoods we're not a threat.


Friday night, Carlton's first big test.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

It's fair to say West Coast clearly showed what the gap between the two sides was when they met at the 'G earlier in the year.

We didn't play them at the 'G last year. And a bigger reflection between the two would have been the semi final, in a high pressure game that actually mattered, or did we forget that game now? There's not much of a 'gap' considering.

 

[invinciBlues]

You could do it the other way and try to find how many grand final teams in the past twenty years didn't have an All-Australian-calibre key forward leading their goalkicking that season to get them there.

1992: West Coast Eagles (Sumich 82) vs Geelong (Brownless 79)
1993: Essendon (Salmon 65) vs Carlton (Kernahan 68)
1994: West Coast Eagles (Sumich 49) vs Geelong (Ablett 129)
1995: Carlton (Kernahan 63) vs Geelong (Ablett 122)
1996: North Melbourne (Carey 82) vs Sydney (Lockett 121)
1997: Adelaide (Modra 84) vs St Kilda (Heatley 73)
1998: Adelaide (Jarman 45) vs North Melbourne (Carey 80)
1999: North Melbourne (Carey 76) vs Carlton (Whitnall 55)
2000: Essendon (Lloyd 109) vs Melbourne (Farmer 76)
2001: Brisbane Lions (Lynch 58) vs Essendon (Lloyd 105)
2002: Brisbane Lions (Lynch 74) vs Collingwood (Rocca/Tarrant 38)
2003: Brisbane Lions (Lynch 78) vs Collingwood (Tarrant 54)
2004: Port Adelaide (Tredrea 81) vs Brisbane Lions (Akermanis 44)
2005: Sydney (Hall 80) vs West Coast Eagles (Matera 38)
2006: West Coast Eagles (Lynch 65) vs Sydney (Hall 78)
2007: Geelong (Mooney 67) vs Port Adelaide (Ebert 56)
2008: Hawthorn (Franklin 113) vs Geelong (Johnson 53)
2009: Geelong (Mooney 46) vs St Kilda Riewoldt (78)
2010: Collingwood (Didak 41) vs St Kilda (Milne 57)
2011: Geelong (Podsiadly 52) vs Collingwood (Cloke 69)

32/40 of the grand final participants have had a key forward as their leading goalkicker. And 18/20 premiers have had a key forward as their leading goalkicker. A key forward may not win you the grand final, but you're going to battle to get there without one as your primary target.

How did Modra go in that Grand Final, which the crows won by the way?

And I especially liked how you moved the goal posts from your first paragraph (all-Australian calibre) to just "key position forward leading the clubs goal kicking" in the final paragraph.

Here's where you went wrong:

Sumich was never named all-Australian.
Salmon was never named AA for essendon in its current format.
Mooney only kicked 60 goals leading into the 2007 GF. 55 for the season.
Mooney was only named AA once. In the forward pocket (effectively third tall up). In a year geelong took everyone by storm.
Jarman was not a "key forward".
Podsiadly has never been AA.
Didak is not a "key forward".
Quentin Lynch has never been AA.
Alistair Lynch did indeed make AA. Once. In 1993. For Fitzroy.

Im sure there's more mistakes, but thats all I can be bothered pointing out for now.

So the true count according to your original criteria: 13 out of 20 premiers have not had an AA KPF (or in Modra's case unable to play on the day).

 

[Fadge]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

We didn't play them at the 'G last year. And a bigger reflection between the two would have been the semi final, in a high pressure game that actually mattered, or did we forget that game now? There's not much of a 'gap' considering.

Um, I actually mentioned the Semi-Final result in the post that you quoted...

 

[Fadge]

How did Modra go in that Grand Final, which the crows won by the way?

And I especially liked how you moved the goal posts from your first paragraph (all-Australian calibre) to just "key position forward leading the clubs goal kicking" in the final paragraph.

Here's where you went wrong:

Sumich was never named all-Australian.
Salmon was never named AA for essendon in its current format.
Mooney only kicked 60 goals leading into the 2007 GF. 55 for the season.
Mooney was only named AA once. In the forward pocket (effectively third tall up). In a year geelong took everyone by storm.
Jarman was not a "key forward".
Podsiadly has never been AA.
Didak is not a "key forward".
Quentin Lynch has never been AA.
Alistair Lynch did indeed make AA. Once. In 1993. For Fitzroy.

Im sure there's more mistakes, but thats all I can be bothered pointing out for now.

So the true count according to your original criteria: 13 out of 20 premiers have not had an AA KPF (or in Modra's case unable to play on the day).

OK then, you can have your way. Key position forwards are not at all important in Grand Finals and even less influential in getting you there.

Happy with that?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

West Coast have 11 games at home, not 12. Playing Fremantle 'away' does not count as a home game.

Carlton have 18/22 games in Victoria in 2012, so applying the same logic they have 18 games at home. Good deal.

What are you implying here regarding my initial post?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Must be school holidays A thread like this after 2 rounds? 2 rounds?


I'd like to think were a shot this year, but until we beat the Hawthorns & Colllingwoods we're not a threat.


Friday night, Carlton's first big test.

You need to beat the premiers to be a threat.

 

[Fadge]

You need to beat the premiers to be a threat.

Haven't you seen the Premiership odds at the moment?

Apparently a team who won their first final in ten years last year are more likely to win the flag than the team that has won 3 of the past 5 premierships.

Astounding.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Haven't you seen the Premiership odds at the moment?

Apparently a team who won their first final in ten years last year are more likely to win the flag than the team that has won 3 of the past 5 premierships.

Astounding.

You would have thought all and sundry would have learn't by now!

People literally take 1 loss or 1 bad game as the end of the world.

Collingwood and Geelong are still the 2 teams to beat but West Coast, Carlton and Hawthorn are fast approaching.

 

[Corrosion]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Also remember that West Coast were coming off a bruising encounter with Collingwood the week before where they were right in the game until 5 minutes to go of the last quarter. Conversely, Carlton had a stroll in the park the week prior.

It's fair to say West Coast clearly showed what the gap between the two sides was when they met at the 'G earlier in the year.

Firstly, the teams played each other at Etihad.

Secondly, Collingwood Vs West Coast was round 10 and lost 105-53 where they clearly weren't in the game until 5 minutes to go. They were smashed.

Carlton Vs West Coast was round 14.

Carlton played Sydney the week before at home and West Coast had a home game against Port Adelaide, which definantly wasnt a bruising encounter.

It's fair to say that you have no idea what you're talking about and just made a bunch of shit up to support your argument.

 

[Bell Ringer]

Haven't you seen the Premiership odds at the moment?

Apparently a team who won their first final in ten years last year are more likely to win the flag than the team that has won 3 of the past 5 premierships.

Astounding.

You don't have to be a card-carrying member of Mensa to place a bet.

 

[Fadge]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Firstly, the teams played each other at Etihad.

Secondly, Collingwood Vs West Coast was round 10 and lost 105-53 where they clearly weren't in the game until 5 minutes to go. They were smashed.

Carlton Vs West Coast was round 14.

Carlton played Sydney the week before at home and West Coast had a home game against Port Adelaide, which definantly wasnt a bruising encounter.

It's fair to say that you have no idea what you're talking about and just made a bunch of shit up to support your argument.

My first paragraph was in rreference to the fact they were only beaten by three points in the Semi-Final.

Be sure to read posters' comments in context before taking personal swipes at them, and making yourself look like a tool in the process.

OK, so they played at Etihad in Round 14. My point was it was in Melbourne.

My main point is that Carlton will only be making up the numbers again this year.

 

[Jock]

Very early calls being made.
Just have to get top 4 then if key players are on the deck you are a real chance. Can the Hawks win it without Mitchell and Gibson, or the Woods win it without Cloke and Swan in a final series for example. You'd doubt it.

 

[Corrosion]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

My first paragraph was in response to a comment they they were only beaten by three points in the Semi-Final.

Be sure to read posters' comments in context before taking personal swipes at them, and making yourself look like a tool in the process.

OK, so they played at Etihad in Round 14. My point was it was in Melbourne.

My main point is that Carlton will only be making up the numbers again this year.

Firstly, sorry for the getting the games mixed up. Thought you were talking about the regular season clash and not the finals game.

I don't get how you can make such claims that a team can be making up the numbers (The good sides I mean, not the teams struggling) after 2 rounds of football. Wait until at least round 7 where you can guage a form line and how good a team actually is.

 

[serenityNow]

You need to beat the premiers to be a threat.

I didnt mean to leave Geelong out as to write them off or anything, of course they are a premiership threat.
i was more mentioning the Hawks and Pies because we havent beaten them in a long time (hawks, since 04ish) and constantly get done by big margins by them.
We seem to match up well on Geelong and play them well, yes i know Geelong beat us last year, but it was a ripping game in the last that could've gone either way........the last 2 they've played at the G Carlton have won.

 

[topdon]

We'll learn a lot about Carlton on Friday night.

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Long way to go havent beaten the Pies in 5 games, havent beaten the Hawks in 5 years lol, so yeah Im not getting carried away, Carlton have a lot to prove to the footy world.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Can anyone seriously see Carlton competing and winning a tough slog like the one we saw today? I may be biased against the old enemy, but I simply can't imagine the Blues not getting brushed aside in a match like that against quality opposition.

 

[Obeanie1]

Re: Carlton are legit flag threat

Firstly, sorry for the getting the games mixed up. Thought you were talking about the regular season clash and not the finals game.

I don't get how you can make such claims that a team can be making up the numbers (The good sides I mean, not the teams struggling) after 2 rounds of football. Wait until at least round 7 where you can guage a form line and how good a team actually is.

Correct.

But you need to tell that to all the Blues supporters who are getting a tad carried away with these first two wins against average opposition.

Exactly the same for the Eagles, we don't play decent opposition until round 4 and the Hawks.

 

[BlueDW]

Can anyone seriously see Carlton competing and winning a tough slog like the one we saw today? I may be biased against the old enemy, but I simply can't imagine the Blues not getting brushed aside in a match like that against quality opposition.

Geez pal, obsessed much? That was an awesome game of footy and all you do is post about Carlton??? Tell you what, my side has more of a chance of competing in a game like that than your mob. If we werent able to compete, the Bombers would get absolutely embarrassed!!!

 

[Muji]

Time will tell. Carlton has definitely shown that they can match it with the big boys in the past and this year will be the breakthrough against them.

Why Essendon supporters so jelly?

62 points. umad?

 

[blues4flag]

Can anyone seriously see Carlton competing and winning a tough slog like the one we saw today? I may be biased against the old enemy, but I simply can't imagine the Blues not getting brushed aside in a match like that against quality opposition.

When was the last time we were brushed aside in a game like that? Did you not watch the prelim final last season?

 

[ESKIE]

Can anyone seriously see Carlton competing and winning a tough slog like the one we saw today? I may be biased against the old enemy, but I simply can't imagine the Blues not getting brushed aside in a match like that against quality opposition.

Did you not see the final agains WCE in Perth last year....you know the match after the elimination final at the MCG