Opinion Changes for Round 2 vs The Blues

[threenewpadlocks]

No Sweet isn't a proven comodity however he has shown more at VFL level

But he hasn't. That's the point. He wasn't anywhere near AFL selection on VFL form after he dropped back down from AFL level last year, and nobody's pointed him out as playing particularly well in the VFL practice games thus far this year.

I'd be less harsh if people recognised that reality.

only option left is Sweet

Another option was to not drop Schache.

 

[Foxman98]

But he hasn't. That's the point. He wasn't anywhere near AFL selection on VFL form after he dropped back down from AFL level last year, and nobody's pointed him out as playing particularly well in the VFL practice games thus far this year.

I'd be less harsh if people recognised that reality.

Another option was to not drop Schache.

No one had seen the practice matches the only one we have detail on he kicked 2 goals.
We have seen enough of Cordy he offers nothing.
Schache has not got it between the ears. You can't continuously shit yourself on the big stages like he does and keep playing.
Cordy and Schache are not remotely long term options and are list cloggers at best

 

[threenewpadlocks]

No one had seen the practice matches the only one we have detail on he kicked 2 goals.
We have seen enough of Cordy he offers nothing.
Schache has not got it between the ears. You can't continuously shit yourself on the big stages like he does and keep playing.
Cordy and Schache are not remotely long term options and are list cloggers at best

Schache is all of four months older than Sweet.

 

[Foxman98]

Schache is all of four months older than Sweet.

One's played over 50 games ones played 5. Schache has little to no upside and has shown he is soft and mentally fragile

 

[TiAn_]

English had 20 touches through the ruck, won 8 frees, we won centre clearances 19-8, and had 86% time on ground. If he can do that against Gawn and Jackson, why would we need to give him more support against lesser rucks in this game? English or Sweet up forward wouldn't than what we'd lose having Sweet rucking, given that Sweet hardly set the world on fire after his AFL stint in the VFL last year.

And this discussion was had a million times over with Sweet last year when we were picking Martin at the back end of last year. Since he was dropped from the AFL team last year, Sweet basically let every AFL-listed ruck that was playing VFL (Rhys Stanley, Callum Sinclair, Tom Campbell etc.) get 20+ touches against him in the VFL, and the only player he marginally beat was Nathan Mullenger-McHugh for Coburg - and when I say marginally, like, literally marginally - more hitouts but only 13 touches to 12.

No issue with looking to build Sweet up as a player - plenty of rucks have come on in their late 20's, he did okay in the AFL games he did play and he dominated the SANFL in the same manner that Hayes did last year - but he's not demanding selection on form right now...

He’s competing with Cordy though, who had 3 touches on the weekend.

 

[lachy]

He’s competing with Cordy though, who had 3 touches on the weekend.

Absolutely. Pretty much completely missing the argument about who Sweet will be replacing. Cordy is no where near an AFL forward. Cordy does not offer any significant rest for English in the ruck. Cordy has shown even less than Sweet up forward in the last 5 seasons.

Sweet's structural role is to be the third tall, not first, which he has shown he can actual mark and has some mobility. He can also allow English 20% to 30% of the game to rest up forward and not cause a significant drop off around the contest as stop plays. Why Martin was preferred to Sweet in the practice matches is close to a joke and I am one of Bev's biggest defenders.

If you want any credibility in arguing for Cordy in the team it is down back

 

[lachy]

English had 20 touches through the ruck, won 8 frees, we won centre clearances 19-8, and had 86% time on ground. If he can do that against Gawn and Jackson, why would we need to give him more support against lesser rucks in this game? English or Sweet up forward wouldn't than what we'd lose having Sweet rucking, given that Sweet hardly set the world on fire after his AFL stint in the VFL last year.

And this discussion was had a million times over with Sweet last year when we were picking Martin at the back end of last year. Since he was dropped from the AFL team last year, Sweet basically let every AFL-listed ruck that was playing VFL (Rhys Stanley, Callum Sinclair, Tom Campbell etc.) get 20+ touches against him in the VFL, and the only player he marginally beat was Nathan Mullenger-McHugh for Coburg - and when I say marginally, like, literally marginally - more hitouts but only 13 touches to 12.

No issue with looking to build Sweet up as a player - plenty of rucks have come on in their late 20's, he did okay in the AFL games he did play and he dominated the SANFL in the same manner that Hayes did last year - but he's not demanding selection on form right now...

And English was cooked by the end. Imagine how much value to the team if he had 70% ruck, 20% forward and 10% rest

 

[Maverick Dog]

Hope crozier plays on Curnow. He will kick half a dozen if Cordy plays on him, while Gards plays on the crap ruckman resting fwd

 

[Doggy]

No more Carltank covid it appears

 

[Mofra]

Hope crozier plays on Curnow. He will kick half a dozen if Cordy plays on him, while Gards plays on the crap ruckman resting fwd

Curnow is coming off a long break and kicked 2 behinds last week.

I'm more concerned about Harry McKay who is a dead set gun, and Tom de Koning who is the athletic tall type we tend to hand breakout games to.

 

[Foxman98]

Curnow is coming off a long break and kicked 2 behinds last week.

I'm more concerned about Harry McKay who is a dead set gun, and Tom de Koning who is the athletic tall type we tend to hand breakout games to.

McKay is coming off foot and shoulder surgery himself

 

[lachy]

Curnow is coming off a long break and kicked 2 behinds last week.

I'm more concerned about Harry McKay who is a dead set gun, and Tom de Koning who is the athletic tall type we tend to hand breakout games to.

Put simply Carlton do match up well on us. We need to have a clear win through the middle

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Northernsoul74]

And English was cooked by the end. Imagine how much value to the team if he had 70% ruck, 20% forward and 10% rest

My concern is this will all catch up with English end of games but also towards the end of the season.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Curnow is coming off a long break and kicked 2 behinds last week.

I'm more concerned about Harry McKay who is a dead set gun, and Tom de Koning who is the athletic tall type we tend to hand breakout games to.

You are correct, but for some reason we have always had the ability to play opposition forwards into form.

 

[Cudi]

I appreciate how competitive Cordy is but I really don't like him forward at all. He offers literally zero offensive threat down there, last week he didn't look like taking a mark let alone scoring.

It's all well good to be a defensive forward or down there to crash packs but we can't be playing one man down in the forward line offensive wise when the rest (bar Naughts) are so out of form.

 

[Cudi]

You are correct, but for some reason we have always had the ability to play opposition forwards into form.

I have a really bad feeling we will play Curnow into form, Croz just doesn't have the size in the contest against him.

 

[TiAn_]

Absolutely. Pretty much completely missing the argument about who Sweet will be replacing. Cordy is no where near an AFL forward. Cordy does not offer any significant rest for English in the ruck. Cordy has shown even less than Sweet up forward in the last 5 seasons.

Sweet's structural role is to be the third tall, not first, which he has shown he can actual mark and has some mobility. He can also allow English 20% to 30% of the game to rest up forward and not cause a significant drop off around the contest as stop plays. Why Martin was preferred to Sweet in the practice matches is close to a joke and I am one of Bev's biggest defenders.

If you want any credibility in arguing for Cordy in the team it is down back

Yeah it's sort of, how could Sweet possibly be worse than Cordy, if last week is indicative of where he's at? Maybe Cordy will prove us wrong and be better for having had a run up forward last week. But he just looked like he didn't know how to assert any influence at all in that role and was a complete afterthought for defenders.

As to Martin getting first go in the practice matches, I don't think that was as egregious as you do, as I suppose he was the incumbent first choice ruck and if he'd done everything asked during pre-season then he deserved first crack at the second ruck role. VFL starting up shortly will shed some light on this one.

 

[Maverick Dog]

I was a Cordy Fan and thought he was heading as one of the best defenders in the league. Does he have degenerative hip condition or something. His mobility, speed and athleticism is behind Sweet and Martin which makes no sense. He appears to waddle around the ground. A few years back he was fine.

 

[Mofra]

I have a really bad feeling we will play Curnow into form, Croz just doesn't have the size in the contest against him.

Cordy back?
In theory it leaves us exposed forward, in practice I have faith that Marra can manage 4 disposals tonight representing a 33% increase in output

 

[lachy]

As to Martin getting first go in the practice matches, I don't think that was as egregious as you do, as I suppose he was the incumbent first choice ruck and if he'd done everything asked during pre-season then he deserved first crack at the second ruck role. VFL starting up shortly will shed some light on this one.

I agree if Martin was seen as the number 1 ruck or even if it was 50/50. However, if English is to be 70% plus as first ruck, Martin adds less forward than Cordy.

VFL can be misleading particularly up forward. Very messy forward entries, though I suppose our AFL team is not flawless there

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

So if English does a hammy in the first quarter do we go with Bont or Astro in the ruck?

 

[footscray1973]

So if English does a hammy in the first quarter do we go with Bont or Astro in the ruck?

Keep Blues guessing, and rotate every other player through there taking one centre bounce each. First one to win a hit out to advantage gets the gig for the rest of the game!

 

[Cudi]

Cordy back?
In theory it leaves us exposed forward, in practice I have faith that Marra can manage 4 disposals tonight representing a 33% increase in output

I just think that has to be the move. He really isn't offering us much forward, he had three touches last week.

The biggest problem is that Weightman, Hannan and VDM are all so out of form at the same time, hopefully JUH is the spark.

 

[DognBones]

The fact that there is so much debate in this thread and in others regarding team selection does not auger well for us to win this encounter. We are unsettled in several positions and will need to click as a team to overcome obvious shortcomings.

 

[Fossie 32]

The fact that there is so much debate in this thread and in others regarding team selection does not auger well for us to win this encounter. We are unsettled in several positions and will need to click as a team to overcome obvious shortcomings.