Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 21 vs. Hawthorn, MCG, Sat 05/08, 4:35pm

[manicpie]

Howe had 17 disp, 10 marks, 9 score involvements and 3 goals in one quarter, not bad for someone who's supposedly cooked

 

[magpiewarrior]

According to news.com.au Cameron, Hill and Begg all got seriously hurt on the training track today. I’m in Perth and I know that this is a rubbish news source, but could someone please put my mind into a less chaotic state and tell me that it’s not true.

 

[windchimes]

According to news.com.au Cameron, Hill and Begg all got seriously hurt on the training track today. I’m in Perth and I know that this is a rubbish news source, but could someone please put my mind into a less chaotic state and tell me that it’s not true.

Thankfully it isn't, because they didn't train. They all got a long weekend.

 

[magpiewarrior]

Thankfully it isn't, because they didn't train. They all got a long weekend.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Jen2310]

According to news.com.au Cameron, Hill and Begg all got seriously hurt on the training track today. I’m in Perth and I know that this is a rubbish news source, but could someone please put my mind into a less chaotic state and tell me that it’s not true.

It’s rubbish given it appeared they had today off.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[sam_e]

Howe had 17 disp, 10 marks, 9 score involvements and 3 goals in one quarter, not bad for someone who's supposedly cooked

as a defender, he struggled with his direct opponent across the entire game and was moved to wing Q3 and forward Q4

Q2 particularly poor with Martin getting a hold of him. he was matched up against Motlop a couple of times and clearly doesn't have the pace to go with smalls, struggles against the movement /agility of mediums and too short against genuine talls.

he's slowed down considerably and often gets caught out, by his opponent, on the lead and/or in handover.

 

[unplugged]

Is the "loading in July" just a bit of a footy cliche and copying the Geelong etc of yesteryear, or is there a quote to suggest that's what we've done? My memory is shocking at the best of times

 

[KillerMagpies]

When we were smashing teams in the first half of the year, Nick was starting in defence and getting involved in full ground chains.
He’s been doing a great job in midfield, but it’s now on lesser skilled players to do what he was doing.
Our movement has dried up.
In 1990, our best wingers (Brown and Millane) spent most of their season at full forward. Our gun centreman/burst forward won the Coleman playing forward pocket (Daicos).
Football is a team game. Our team needs 3 Nick Daicoses. We only have one. IMO, he needs to back to where we need him most.
Defence.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

We actually had more clearances than Port. Carlton flogged us in that regard, but their group are going to beat any group that we throw at them in terms of clearances.

I think you're mistaking the damage that JDG and Nick do in possession chains with stoppage stuff. They've been well down in the last fortnight, as Port (weather assisted) and Carlton shut down our chains from defence, which Jordy and Nick regularly get amongst and wreak havoc.

It's the run from defence that we targeted both weeks with our subs - not the stoppage - and both weeks we saw a big rise in our play - just couldn't put the goals away against Carlton.

Yup understand all that.

It’s the quality we’re letting out. Not the number.
Run from defence is stifled because it’s coming in with little pressure. So we can’t be aggressive as we were.

Midfield pressure, defensive pressure is everything.
It’s what allows our defence to be super aggressive.

Not arguing about the damage they can do. In fact I’ve been very clear on this.
But we are Playing with fire if we run them together for long periods because this is a key reason we have no defensive pressure and therefore limited defensive rebound.

Saturday is a big watch for mine.

 

[KillerMagpies]

as a defender, he struggled with his direct opponent across the entire game and was moved to wing Q3 and forward Q4

Q2 particularly poor with Martin getting a hold of him. he was matched up against Motlop a couple of times and clearly doesn't have the pace to go with smalls, struggles against the movement /agility of mediums and too short against genuine talls.

he's slowed down considerably and often gets caught out, by his opponent, on the lead and/or in handover.

Agree.
100%.
As we watched, my son said, “Dad, Howe just rescued his season in 15 minutes of football.”

 

[Axl the great]

It’s all relative. If those numbers are similar in Rds 1-9 then it would be clear that our game isn’t built on them.

We’ve always been a poor clearance side. Territory is built on clearance and also impacted by your offensive and defensive efficiency. For instance if you’ve got a good transition game and can turn rebounds into scores you’re naturally going to spend less time in your forward half so those two don’t bother me that much. I’d like our ground ball get numbers to be better though (even if overall numbers is a garbage stat). Something tells me that it not being a differential means we’re doing ok on that front and there’s just been less ground balls in our matches v the rest of the competition.

For me the worrying sign has been our inability to transition the ball the past fortnight. It feels like teams are taking stuff from us lately and we aren’t countering it well.

Astute observation, the opposition is now crowding the contest knowing we will transition out with handball. They especially Carlton just manned up on all the receivers within 10 meters of the contest hence we couldn’t move it.
We need to counter this by kicking more as a first resort, then running the footy when we are free.
Another thing missing was that gang tackling to lock it in.
Very rarely did we see that the other night, the ground ball gets on the 50 was poor as was the retention of the footy.

 

[No SPIN]

Well in that case, clearly one of them needs to be playing VFL to properly combat that.

I know you’re being facetious but on a serious note.
Assuming Grundy doesn’t play -do you think we should go into a final with one Ruck against Gawn?
After the successful tactic of using Vardy and Lycett against Grundy in the 2018 GF, it’s a strategy we should use against Gawn IMO.

 

[legendstatus]

We have a few issues with our game at the moment, but we have a month to rectify them....

View attachment 1760962

Yet we are 2 games clear on top

We are either an unbelievable team or the rest of the AFL stinks

 

[Scodog10]

Astute observation, the opposition is now crowding the contest knowing we will transition out with handball. They especially Carlton just manned up on all the receivers within 10 meters of the contest hence we couldn’t move it.
We need to counter this by kicking more as a first resort, then running the footy when we are free.
Another thing missing was that gang tackling to lock it in.
Very rarely did we see that the other night, the ground ball gets on the 50 was poor as was the retention of the footy.

This struck me watching the Carlton contest and to a lesser extent Port, but two things about it are that maybe we were off by enough v Carlton for it to make a difference (take nothing away from them). Do we also want to show our hand pre-finals? Part of me wants us to test out how we’ll deal with it, but I also want us to keep our cards to our chest…

Someone earlier mentioned that we’re perhaps right on the precipice of a Melbourne 2022 end to the season and whilst it’s possible our season can go to shit from here I think there’s some big differences. The main one being they weren’t winning and dropped 6 matches after Rd 10 whereas we’ve gone 7-2 in that window of stats. If we go back to 2022 again we tapered at the back end of the year with the loss to Sydney, Carlton doing everything other than knocking us off, ditto Essendon and Adelaide. Come the QF though we were on!

Hinkley was right there’s no point being the best team in it in July so I’m OK with the media coming off us as long as we keep doing enough of the things that make us great (transition running, back half intercept and corridor ball movement).

 

[Jelly Bean]

When we were smashing teams in the first half of the year, Nick was starting in defence and getting involved in full ground chains.
He’s been doing a great job in midfield, but it’s now on lesser skilled players to do what he was doing.
Our movement has dried up.
In 1990, our best wingers (Brown and Millane) spent most of their season at full forward. Our gun centreman/burst forward won the Coleman playing forward pocket (Daicos).
Football is a team game. Our team needs 3 Nick Daicoses. We only have one. IMO, he needs to back to where we need him most.
Defence.

John Longmire won the Coleman in 1990.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Is the "loading in July" just a bit of a footy cliche and copying the Geelong etc of yesteryear, or is there a quote to suggest that's what we've done? My memory is shocking at the best of times

It’s a guess. Haven’t seen or heard anything from the club or from training watchers to support it. As far as I’m aware, Wade focuses on individual training load management. Takes certain players aside for extra running or reduced training as per those individual plans. That’s supported by training watchers and mentioned in training reports.

 

[3rdMan]

The First Crack stats are a little misleading. Aside from that though, their meaning is questionsble.

Groundball gets #18 - why not differential? A total means little. It could be a concern though.

Clearance differential #13 - we learned from Richmond (and others since) that this is not a required key to winning.

Time in forward half #13 - this is one you "might" want, but it really depends on priorities.

They've just looked for a few stats we're poor in, they're isn't any real direct correlation between these and being successful. Remember that the talk about Richmond was they couldn't win clearances. When they won three flags doing it, we "realised" post clearance possessions are more important. I put this in quotes because neither is true. There are many different ways to succeed, it's succeeding that gives the stats value, not the other way around.

Another example is the stat which says we score more from defensive chains than forward chains. Now it's been noticed Melbourne are doing this too, and the thinking is it may be more effective due to cleaner forward entries. Again, which stats are important are defined by successful teams.

 

[Jafo]

According to news.com.au Cameron, Hill and Begg all got seriously hurt on the training track today. I’m in Perth and I know that this is a rubbish news source, but could someone please put my mind into a less chaotic state and tell me that it’s not true.

Totally fakes news. But Moore got the sniffles again and is in intensive care with an IV. Apparently out for the season.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

According to news.com.au Cameron, Hill and Begg all got seriously hurt on the training track today. I’m in Perth and I know that this is a rubbish news source, but could someone please put my mind into a less chaotic state and tell me that it’s not true.

Lol. They didn't even train today.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Daics got robbed

John Longmire won the Coleman in 1990

 

[Harry O]

How do we stop Mitch Lewis and Breust ?

And not sure who curtails Sicily

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

How do we stop Mitch Lewis and Breust ?

And not sure who curtails Sicily

Howe on Sicily. Frampton/Moore/Murphy on Lewis/Bruest

 

[Scodog10]

Is the "loading in July" just a bit of a footy cliche and copying the Geelong etc of yesteryear, or is there a quote to suggest that's what we've done? My memory is shocking at the best of times

Depends on what’s meant by loading. If it’s in regards to training loads I’d ignore it, but the club have spoken openly about the importance they were placing on the 5 week period following the bye which culminated in the Port match. That’s not to say there wasn’t a significant emphasis on the Carlton one more that the messaging seemed to indicate the 5 weeks after the bye were the ones we’d identified as shaping our season.

 

[3rdMan]

This is a good matchhup following the Carlton game. Hawks have similar strengths. Contested ball, intercept defender, a dangerous key forward.

Up and down all year, but a challenge at their best.

 

[Apex36]

I know you’re being facetious but on a serious note.

Well I’m glad of that. I was concerned I might have had to post a joke over your head gif.

Assuming Grundy doesn’t play -do you think we should go into a final with one Ruck against Gawn?

After the successful tactic of using Vardy and Lycett against Grundy in the 2018 GF, it’s a strategy we should use against Gawn IMO.

I think we should worry more about what structure suits us best, rather than basing our selection around combating a single player. I wouldn’t be selecting Cox purely to try and negate Gawn, particularly when it’s clear that we’re using Cameron for the vast majority of the rucking anyway. Cox is acceptable as a forward/ruck if he’s taking marks and kicking 1-2 goals each game but he’s not. At this point he’s a liability if he’s not playing as first ruck, as is Cameron, with his incredibly poor goal kicking this year. It’s time to bring AJ in. He and McStay can ruck for a few minutes each quarter.