Changes v Collingwood

[Tas]

Originally posted by Dingster
No, but we have to get some games and experience into the guys that are going to be a part of our perceived long term goals. Watson has done enough to deserve a game here and there ala Jezza to demonstrate where he's at and what he needs working on.

Honestly, I do not care who puts the jumper on and plays for us each week as long as they have a go, so you are preaching to the choir.

I wanted to see greater rotation of players to give more experience to the younger kids but our core players are playing so poorly we do not have the luxury of rotating players without risking being uncompetitive.

This thread is all about what we need to do to beat Collingwood this week, not what we need to do to beat Collingwood in 2007. Playing more kids this week will make it better for us in the long-term, it wont help us this week.

I'm not advocating playing the youngsters for the sake of it. There has to be balance and purpose along the way. This could be done by dropping Harding for a few weeks to let him get some confidence back and work on deficiencies playing with Port.

Dropping players into the VFL helps some players get their confidence up, it hurts other players. They lose confidence in their ability to play at this level. I trust the club knows the players alot better than we do and knows what is best for the team.

Alot also depends on the role of the player, if you are a forward and you go to play for Port and the midfield delivery is even worse than it is in the seniors then you will never get any confidence.

Was Harding playing to instruction? I don't know, he was asked to try and play a key forward, something he is not. You know he is not, I know he is not yet thats what he was asked to do. Should he be dropped for doing what he was asked to do?

Corey Jones had a very ordinary game yet nobody calls for his head. Motlop had very little influence on the game. Petrie again missed some shockers, nobody dwells on his inability to kick regulation goals. Did Harding really play any worse than those players?

I could buy alot of the arguements that come here if people had any shred of consistancy in their views. People just have their favourite players and highlight the flaws in others, it is quite stupid really.

I don't really care if Harding plays or not, I just think he is unfairly treated here because people are making out that we are not winning because he or Jess are in the side.

Leave them out, it wont make any difference unless the ball is used alot better up the ground.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by Moti
Last year Watson showed his disposal was very good in the seniors, missing I think 1 target for his 4 games.

He will make a huge difference. Just 3 or 4 direct kicks will give us an extra 3 or 4 shots on goal. THAT can make a difference.

If Watson is going to get a game anywhere where his ability to use his kicking skill are of any use then he is going to have to dislodge a midfielder.

Jess should be playing in defense, and showed against Port that his run out of defense can be very good. He was again played out of position this week.

Harding should be a forward pocket or half forward flanker. Watson is not suited to playing either of those roles. and I do not think Jeremy is as good as Harding at this point in time, even when Harding is down on confidence. Clayton is a better crumber but I do not think he has the same potential to expose defenders. He doesn't do it at VFL level so I do not expect him to do it at AFL level.

Clayton may improve alot in time but at the moment he would not provide a net positive to the team in my opinion. I wish the kid all the best if he is named though.

So who are the players delivering the ball inside 50 for us last week? Simpson 8, Stevens 5, King 5, Grant 4, Harvey 5, Makepeace 4, Motlop 4 and Harris 3.

Those are the culprits of poorly using the ball and its usually the same group of players each week delivering it forwards.

Simpson, Harris and Stevens are in and under players and their delivery forward is not always expected to be very good because they are under a ton of pressure when they get the ball.

It is their decision making and execution when not under pressure which is what prevented us from getting all that much from our inside 50s.

If Watson is going to have any real impact he is going to have to take over one of their roles. If he is playing deep in defense or in the forward pocket he is not going to have any impact.

So is Harding and Jess going out really going to improve the problem? If Watson comes in he will get 20 to 30 minutes on the ground because he is not going to dislodge one of the other midfielders whilst they are in the side.

The only way he will get serious game time is if he replaces one of them.

 

[Angus1]

I agree Tas that changes to the team will make very little difference at all.
I know you like Harding and I can see why. I on the other hand don't like him but I do like the way how he can get free and can get the ball. My reasons for not liking him are because I have absolutley no confidence in him at having set shots at goal or as we saw on Saturday when he was running into the 50 zone just threw it on the boot and it helicoptered away to the right of goals for absolutley no value. He does it far too often. Why didn't he take a bounce and run in a bit further and have a decent shot at goals? Why didn't he pull up and pass to someone in better position? Why doesn't he ever handball to someone who is facing goals??? He is very selfish yet doesn't have the Kevin Bartlett skills to play selfish. Look if he was a good kick then I wouldn't mind the way he plays so much but his kicking skills are woeful and if he is the small forward then that doesn't give me a lot of hope. I know he kicked a lot of goals last year but he also kicked 2 on Saturday but I doubt many people would say he had a good game.
Dropping him isn't going to make us win next week but it should be about putting in the best team that we feel gives us a chance to beat Colingwood or whoever else we come up against in future matches. If Harding is considered by the selectors as our best small forward then that's fine but I'm not so sure.

 

[Tas]

Originally posted by Angus1
I agree Tas that changes to the team will make very little difference at all.
I know you like Harding and I can see why. I on the other hand don't like him but I do like the way how he can get free and can get the ball. My reasons for not liking him are because I have absolutley no confidence in him at having set shots at goal or as we saw on Saturday when he was running into the 50 zone just threw it on the boot and it helicoptered away to the right of goals for absolutley no value. He does it far too often. Why didn't he take a bounce and run in a bit further and have a decent shot at goals? Why didn't he pull up and pass to someone in better position? Why doesn't he ever handball to someone who is facing goals??? He is very selfish yet doesn't have the Kevin Bartlett skills to play selfish. Look if he was a good kick then I wouldn't mind the way he plays so much but his kicking skills are woeful and if he is the small forward then that doesn't give me a lot of hope. I know he kicked a lot of goals last year but he also kicked 2 on Saturday but I doubt many people would say he had a good game.
Dropping him isn't going to make us win next week but it should be about putting in the best team that we feel gives us a chance to beat Colingwood or whoever else we come up against in future matches. If Harding is considered by the selectors as our best small forward then that's fine but I'm not so sure.

He is definitely at the crossroads. I am just not ready to give up on a player that has been very good for us for several years just because he is in poor form or confidence.

If he doesn't come good then he doesn't come good. If I am going to pass judgement on Harding then Petrie and Jones would also join the dump heap because I'd rather Harding take a shot inside 30m than Petrie.

Reality is we have alot of players that have not really moved forwards this year, alot have stalled or gone backwards and its easy to just say dump them. It will not fix the problems we are facing.

I don't mind if Harding is not playing for us, because other players are also deserving a shot. But if Harding is playing and he overcomes whatever is troubling him then he can kick 4 or more goals against quality opposition. I do not think we have anyone else outside of the team that is capable of doing that.

I do agree his games have been lackluster this year, but he is far from the only one. As bad as he did play, no pther player outscored him. What does that say about our forward line and the delivery into it?

 

[Event Horizon]

In: Mckernan, Watson, Urch

Out: Hale (inj), Jones, Harding

I think 2 TD games against Collingwood and Richmond are ideal to bring Watson and Urch into the team. The ground suits their style of play and the opposition isn't Brisbane like either.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Shane Clayton back in the side.

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by Tas
Alot also depends on the role of the player, if you are a forward and you go to play for Port and the midfield delivery is even worse than it is in the seniors then you will never get any confidence.

I find that hard to believe given Port's record and our delivery inside 50. I haven't seen a Port game, so I'll have to take your word for it.

I guess the reason why Turtle is targeted more than Jones and Petrie is his work rate when he's not getting a kick. It just looks horrible when he refuses to chase or lay a tackle where Petrie and Jones are usually very hard workers. In a lot of people's eyes, including mine, that makes him more expendable. If he doesn't like going back to Port...stiff ****. They shouldn't be treated like babies.

I do hope that Turtle turns it around as I do think an in form Turtle makes us a better team. As for his role, I agree that he isn't a FF and would like to see Sav there. Our forward line looks far more balanced with Sav even if he only kicks a few himself.

 

[Woodson]

Go Tas Go

Originally posted by Tas

We had more inside 50s than Melbourne but really never looked like kicking goals comfortably. That is the number one priority to address, whoever is playing.

Tas, you're firing on all cylinders today. Great read as usual. I prefer you give the fellas a pre-game address than that other guy who some ppl are struggling to come to grips whether he can coach properly.

seriously though.....these stats are flippin' EMBARRASSING !! I mean, at three quarter time North were 8...READ EIGHT scoring shots behind the Dees and somehow North outnumber the time they get inside the Fwd50... this is flippin' SERIOUS SH1T and I'm quite unimpressed with the way JYD moved the troops around on Saturday. Is he serious about winning or just there to get some experience ???

Not happy Jan

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by FrangaRoo
HARDING OUT!

He is NOT a key forward, he cannot play one on one.
He is a crumber, a goal sneak, not tall or strong enough to be playing in the goal square while SAV is on the bench.

Our blokes only seemed to kick it to him when he was stationary, not when he was on a lead (not that he made many). He is a good overhead mark, but not as a standing target in a contested situation. Poor choice of targets by our midfielders, and probably poor positioning by our forwards to allow Harding to be a one-on-one target rather than the talls being the target with Harding crumbing. Pretty inept display all round.